Natural vs. Supernatural: Real Distinction or Made-Up Crap?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Tangibility.



All other existences are those that are posited in a realm of intangibility.

Neutrinos are intangible, but they're within the realm of science.

Edit: also, a "god" that has absolutely no tangible effects on the physical universe is not a god that anyone actually believes in.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Neutrinos are intangible, but they're within the realm of science.

Edit: also, a "god" that has absolutely no tangible effects on the physical universe is not a god that anyone actually believes in.

Neutrinos are not absolutely intangible...they have mass and have been detected in purpose built neutrino detectors...

So exactly how do you know God has no effects on the physical universe?

Since my understanding of the concept of absolute God is the same as the concept of the absolute Universe itself...all apparent effects perceived by mortals are merely aspects of universal existence...no big deal...

 

[outhouse]

So exactly how do you know God has no effects on the physical universe?

Which god?

 

[dust1n]

Neutrinos are intangible, but they're within the realm of science.

Edit: also, a "god" that has absolutely no tangible effects on the physical universe is not a god that anyone actually believes in.

When I say tangible, I mean something that which has to be possibility of being understood. Anti-neutrino's (or more so the interactions between them and other things) have been observed. I expect neutrinos will be observed in the next few years. Neutrino's have no electromagnetic interactions, but they still (or as posited) interact with the physical world around them.

It's a working definition, considering "supernatural" to me doesn't mean much. How can I make use of something that posited outside of human comprehension?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Which god?

The reality represented by the concept of the one absolute God that is all that exists...call by another name if like...the absolute Cosmos...who cares about the label....

 

[outhouse]

The reality represented by the concept of the one absolute God that is all that exists...call by another name if like...the absolute Cosmos...who cares about the label....

So your making up your own personal god?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So exactly how do you know God has no effects on the physical universe?

I didn't say that I did know this. My point was that every god that anyone ever believed in has supposedly had a tangible effect on the physical universe, whether that means creating the universe or doing things to the things in it (e.g. doing miracles, talking to prophets, etc.)

When I say tangible, I mean something that which has to be possibility of being understood.

That's not what "tangible" means.

It's a working definition, considering "supernatural" to me doesn't mean much. How can I make use of something that posited outside of human comprehension?

You acknowledge that every god ever claimed is supposedly inside human comprehension, at least to some degree. As I tried to point out before, every god is supposed to have had some effect on the universe as a whole or things in it.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I didn't say that I did know this. My point was that every god that anyone ever believed in has supposedly had a tangible effect on the physical universe, whether that means creating the universe or doing things to the things in it (e.g. doing miracles, talking to prophets, etc.)

Ok...fwiw. there is much more to the concept of God than just that of a dualistic separation between God and the manifested universe.. .In the non-dualistic religious tradition, God is the manifested universe, nothing else exists except God, which is unknowable by mortals, with no beginning and no end...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Ok...fwiw. there is much more to the concept of God than just that of a dualistic separation between God and the manifested universe.. .In the non-dualistic religious tradition, God is the manifested universe, nothing else exists except God, which is unknowable by mortals, with no beginning and no end...

So...

- God is everything
- God is unknowable
- therefore, everything is unknowable
- therefore, nobody knows anything

Do I have you right?

If so, then anyone claiming this sort of God can be dismissed as just making their God (and everything else they claim to know about) up.

 

[Lyndon]

I thought atheists were supposed to present logical counter arguments???

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How can you expect to know a reality that is infinite, while your mind is perceiving your local environment...how can you expect to know timelessness, while your mind is conceptualizing in sequential steps in time....you are just beyond a monkey in evolution and you expect to apprehend the sum total of all eternal existence...

I think you missed my point. I don't expect any of that.

You're "just beyond a monkey", too. Any knowledge that's beyond my capabilities is beyond your capabilities as well.

 

[Lyndon]

Obviously the knowledge of God is beyond your capabilities, do you deny that??

 

[McBell]

Obviously the knowledge of God is beyond your capabilities, do you deny that??

Knowledge of which god?
There are literally thousands of them you know.
Do you have knowledge of them all or are you having one particular god in mind?

 

[Lyndon]

Perhaps you could tell us which God's you believe in for clarification???

 

[jonathan180iq]

Perhaps you could tell us which God's you believe in for clarification???

That's an impressive dodge.

 

[McBell]

Perhaps you could tell us which God's you believe in for clarification???

Your avoidance is duly noted.

 

[Lyndon]

Just because there are thousands of name for God/gods does not mean they are all different beings, many times names are for different aspects of one God, or multiple names are for the same God. I imagine there is not just one God, or one God and many gods.

 

[Lyndon]

Obviously Mestemia is bluffing, be actually has no Gods in mind as he has no belief in any, I presume.

 

[McBell]

Just because there are thousands of name for God/gods does not mean they are all different beings, many times names are for different aspects of one God, or multiple names are for the same God. I imagine there is not just one God, or one God and many gods.

Really?
One god many names?
So you are saying god has the ultimate split personality?

 

[McBell]

Obviously Mestemia is bluffing, be actually has no Gods in mind as he has no belief in any, I presume.

Bluffing?
What is this bluff you claim I have?