Neat Video Explaining the Evidence of Our Relationship To the Other Great Apes

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

Dawkins is the most conspicuous public voice and face of contemporary atheism."

Books: The God Delusion, A Devil’s Chaplain, The Selfish Gene

Have you read The God Delusion? It is a beautiful and mind expanding book (praise Dawkins!), just curious mate. Christians in the West have become better at apologetics as time has gone on, because an increasingly secular Western world has asked a lot of awkward questions. They've become better because they are "battle hardened", they'll put on any hat - scientific, philosophical, presuppositional, current affairs, prophecy, miracles etc., etc., in order to defend their religion. I think Islam is behind the curve in that respect, because questioning the 'truth' of Islam can get you killed in Islamic states, and Islamic communities in a secular society (like ours) tend to be insular. Part of the reason why I like to see Muslims on forums like this. So have you read The God Delusion, and if so what were your thoughts?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Billions of people disagree with you including ardent sceptics. You likely haven't studied, but that's ok. Just live a good life and treat others how you wish to be treated.

So what? Argument From Popularity is a Logical Fallacy.

Not all that long ago, most people in the world believed the world was flat. Was it? Nope.

Question: If most of the world decided to suddenly jump from a high place to their death-- does that make it a Good Thing?

 

[Muslim-UK]

Have you read The God Delusion? It is a beautiful and mind expanding book (praise Dawkins!), just curious mate. Christians in the West have become better at apologetics as time has gone on, because an increasingly secular Western world has asked a lot of awkward questions. They've become better because they are "battle hardened", they'll put on any hat - scientific, philosophical, presuppositional, current affairs, prophecy, miracles etc., etc., in order to defend their religion. I think Islam is behind the curve in that respect, because questioning the 'truth' of Islam can get you killed in Islamic states, and Islamic communities in a secular society (like ours) tend to be insular. Part of the reason why I like to see Muslims on forums like this. So have you read The God Delusion, and if so what were your thoughts?

Hi, No I haven't read, nor would I want to. He likely spent a good deal of the book attacking Christianity and the evil done around the World in the name of 'religion' over the past 2,000 years. No one will ever be able to disprove the existence of God, and no one will be able to prove He exists either.

Christians might be battled hardened, but their concept of a triune God is their biggest self inflicted Achilles heel. You will notice here in the West people are free to follow religion or reject it, yet the Mosques are full every Friday. Muslims regularly debate others down at speakers corner and elsewhere, and hold their own well enough. I'm pleased to be a part of this forum, but must say it's difficult keeping up with all he different faiths and beliefs. Some people give very little away regarding what they actually follow, but at least it's much more relaxed and liberal than some other forums I've come across.

 

[DavidFirth]

Easy when over thousands of years, literally billions of god believers have provided exactly 0% evidence gods exist. See where the balance is set?

Add to that the various other proofs that no gods exist and the confirmation is simply verified

Okay, so it should be easy. Prove that God does not exist.

 

[Muslim-UK]

So what? Argument From Popularity is a Logical Fallacy.

Not all that long ago, most people in the world believed the world was flat. Was it? Nope.

Question: If most of the world decided to suddenly jump from a high place to their death-- does that make it a Good Thing?

Not at all. The Qur'an speaks to the reader directly in many places. People who have read it have been convinced, which is why Muslims are told to tell non believers to read and accept or deny the message. At least that way, you can not feel aggrieved when you return to your Lord. A soul can not be held accountable if it has never been told about Islam and the Qur'an, which is why tribes living in remote locations are not held accountable and get to pass go regardless of their beliefs.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

Hi, No I haven't read, nor would I want to. He likely spent a good deal of the book attacking Christianity and the evil done around the World in the name of 'religion' over the past 2,000 years. No one will ever be able to disprove the existence of God, and no one will be able to prove He exists either.

Correct on both counts I'd say, he attacks religion and questions the evidence that a deity exists, but the book goes deeper than that. It is an exploration of how we think about/perceive reality, it is an exploration of the origins of religion. It left me with a few "Damn, I never even thought about that" moments, despite going into it with an atheistic/sceptical mentality (Mr Sceptical right? I've covered every eventuality? Oh no chum, look and learn!).
Sorry to hear you don't want to read the book, I'm currently committed to learning more about Islam, the Eastern Religions, and Satanism! One has only so much time in life to spend on any particular topic, and I can see why you get to a point in life and say "I've come this far, you have nothing to teach me". I'd say that is a fallacy, accepting that you might be wrong about something is hard, but it is liberating also. It opens up a whole new world. Breaking out of your cultural trappings is the hardest thing, but if you do it puts humanity in such a different light. That's my experience anyway, never stop asking questions would be my mantra. Pretty sure we'll have exchanges in the future as long as you remain on the forum.

 

[ChristineM]

Okay, so it should be easy. Prove that God does not exist.

Over 10000+ years literally billions of people have failed to provide any evidence - Proof by exhaustion.

E=mc2 proves any omnipotent god cannot exist at the same time as you.

Childhood leukemia proves no compassionate god exists

The mosquito proves no designer god exists

The futility of prayer proves no listening god exists.

Of course you will deny any of these proofs but will not actually provide any refutation.

 

[Muslim-UK]

Childhood leukemia proves no compassionate god exists

The mosquito proves no designer god exists

The futility of prayer proves no listening god exists.

Of course you will deny any of these proofs but will not actually provide any refutation.

I'll address these points.

Childhood Leukemia, what's that got to do with God? Was the mother fit and healthy? What was her diet and lifestyle like. Environmental factors; did they live on waste ground? Is there a Nuclear power plant nearby?

The child goes to Heaven and if the parents are patient, they too will obtain Heaven too God willing.

What's the point about mosquitoes? They play a part in the designed eco system, but I'm sure you referring to infectious diseases. We have the cure for all childhood diseases, and it's only man's inability to spend money that stops every child in the World being protected.

Futility of prayer <<<< I could list pages and pages of testimonies showing prayer does work.

 

[ChristineM]

I'll address these points.

Childhood Leukemia, what's that got to do with God? Was the mother fit and healthy? What was her diet and lifestyle like. Environmental factors; did they live on waste ground? Is there a Nuclear power plant nearby?

The child goes to Heaven and if the parents are patient, they too will obtain Heaven too God willing.

What's the point about mosquitoes? They play a part in the designed eco system, but I'm sure you referring to infectious diseases. We have the cure for all childhood diseases, and it's only man's inability to spend money that stops every child in the World being protected.

Futility of prayer <<<< I could list pages and pages of testimonies showing prayer does work.

You really need to learn something about medicine before you accusing a mother of giving her child leukemia. That is the most ignorant and obnoxious defence i have ever heard. Your response is so sick that I should finish this now and permanently block seeing any of your post here and now but the rest of your requires comment

You have proof of this heaven place, or like the rest of abrahamic religion, just talking nonsense because a bronze age book told you to talk nonsense? Yes much of the Qur'an is plagiarised from bronze age Hebrew scripture.

What god would create a masterpiece to worship him then create an insect to kill that masterpiece? Or perhaps you believe malaria is the mothers fault too?

Is that validated, falsifiable testimony or some story you heard down the pub?

 

[Muslim-UK]

You really need to learn something about medicine before you accusing a mother of giving her child leukemia. That is the most ignorant and obnoxious defence i have ever heard. Your response is so sick that I should finish this now and permanently block seeing any of your post here and now but the rest of your requires comment

That's quite an over reaction. Am I suggesting the Mother intentionally ate imported fish on a daily basis, that was farmed off the coast of Fukushima? Maybe it was labelled New Zealand Finest Salmon by some unscrupulous importer.

I assume from the rest of your post, you won't be bringing ill thought out arguments like this again.

 

[ChristineM]

That's quite an over reaction. Am I suggesting the Mother intentionally ate imported fish on a daily basis, that was farmed off the coast of Fukushima? Maybe it was labelled New Zealand Finest Salmon by some unscrupulous importer.

I assume from the rest of your post, you won't be bringing ill thought out arguments like this again.

No over reaction, you are talking complete nonsense based on ignorance. For any person to be so stupid is hurtful to the human race.

What ill thought out arguments? You have done nothing to refute them but have shown how pathetically stupid you are in regards to medical science.

The real funny thing is that you use the results of one of those "claimed from ignorance" arguments to post your sad excuse for hod magic

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Okay, so it should be easy. Prove that God does not exist.

First? You have to define which god. There are millions, after all.

Or are you not interested in the proof that Thor does not exist? How do you know?


Here's an idea: Let's use YOUR proof that Thor is myth, and apply it to whichever god you think isn't also a myth.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Not at all. The Qur'an speaks to the reader directly in many places. People who have read it have been convinced, which is why Muslims are told to tell non believers to read and accept or deny the message. At least that way, you can not feel aggrieved when you return to your Lord. A soul can not be held accountable if it has never been told about Islam and the Qur'an, which is why tribes living in remote locations are not held accountable and get to pass go regardless of their beliefs.

You just reworded your earlier argument.

It does not help: The sum of your argument, is "Lots of People Believe. You Should Too".

I'm not buying the "ointment" you are selling, here-- first? Show me the ointment.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I'll address these points.

Childhood Leukemia, what's that got to do with God? Was the mother fit and healthy? What was her diet and lifestyle like. Environmental factors; did they live on waste ground? Is there a Nuclear power plant nearby?

IS your god in charge? Or is it NOT?

If NOT, then your excuses are reasonable-- but it means your god has abdicated it's responsibility.

If it IS in charge? Then the blame lies directly at it's feet-- for creating the universe such that children get cancer.

"god", remember? It can supposedly do anything. Except prevent children from getting cancer...


... must have been those nasty Iron Chariots that so easily defeat god...

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

First? You have to define which god. There are millions, after all.

Or are you not interested in the proof that Thor does not exist? How do you know?


Here's an idea: Let's use YOUR proof that Thor is myth, and apply it to whichever god you think isn't also a myth.

• "It's weird, isn't is, that when we're taught about Thor and Odin, it's called Norse mythology, but when it's about Jehovah and Allah, it's called religion. It's like saying. ‘I know that Batman and Superman don't exist, but I have a personal relationship with Spiderman' " - anon.

 

[Muslim-UK]

IS your god in charge? Or is it NOT?

If NOT, then your excuses are reasonable-- but it means your god has abdicated it's responsibility.

If it IS in charge? Then the blame lies directly at it's feet-- for creating the universe such that children get cancer.

"god", remember? It can supposedly do anything. Except prevent children from getting cancer...


... must have been those nasty Iron Chariots that so easily defeat god...

There is not a leaf that falls on this Planet, except with the permission of God.

Every soul will taste death. And We test you with evil and with good as trial; and to Us you will be returned. Qur'an 21:35

God allows people to be tested with diseases, natural disasters, pain etc. so that people will be distinguished by their patience and thankfulness.

The Prophet (pbuh) said:

God Almighty says: "For my servant who endures patiently when I take away his beloved one from the world, there is no other reward except Paradise."

So it's up to you. You can curse God and end up in Hell or you can endure patiently and be rewarded with Paradise where your family will be waiting.

God gave you everything, including life and He can take away what He has given as He pleases in order to grade the type of person you are.

Mankind has free will, so if some unscrupulous food importer knowingly supplies contaminated food into the food chain, you can't complain to God for not limiting our freewill. That person's actions might be the reason for someone with cancer getting into Heaven, whilst they themselves secure their place in Hell.

 

[Valjean]

Okay, so it should be easy. Prove that God does not exist.

You know better than this, David. The burden's on you.
Can you prove unicorns don't exist? If not, do you believe in them?

 

[DavidFirth]

Over 10000+ years literally billions of people have failed to provide any evidence - Proof by exhaustion.

E=mc2 proves any omnipotent god cannot exist at the same time as you.

Childhood leukemia proves no compassionate god exists

The mosquito proves no designer god exists

The futility of prayer proves no listening god exists.

Of course you will deny any of these proofs but will not actually provide any refutation.

No wonder you believe in macro-evolution. You'll believe anything.

 

[Skwim]

You know better than this, David. The burden's on you.
Can you prove unicorns don't exist? If not, do you believe in them?

Think so? I'm not so sure he does.

.

 

[ChristineM]

No wonder you believe in macro-evolution. You'll believe anything.

So tell me which statement you feel is wrong. Come on, don't be coy...

Are you saying that valid, falsifiable evidence of gods has been provided?

Are you saying Einstein and basic, primary school mathematics are wrong?

Are you saying your god did not create everything?

Please be honest in your response