"Neighbor boys peep at my scantily clad daughters. Should I have them cover up?"

[Poisonshady313]

I'm also curious if I choose to walk naked in my house with windows not coverd if you feel any neighbor has right to ask me (or etiquette is to ask me) to cover windows or cover me?

No. They don't. Let them cover their own windows and mind their own business.

I am still curious if Mike had come over to say his 30 year old brother-in-law who is registered sex offender that is staying with them is having similar (arguably same) issue with scantily clad girls next door, if people on this thread would change their tune? We may never know, but I'm feeling pretty confident that the 'their manner of dress' would not be overriding idea of those who agree with parents.

If the girls are purposely putting themselves on display, putting on a show for the boys (or your 30 year old registered sex offender), then they are engaging in behavior that they could be asked to correct.

However, if they're going about their daily lives and their only fault is that they're not dressed like nuns, then to hell with anyone who thinks it's a good idea to ask the girls' parents if they might consider covering up.

Instead, I think the reaction of wife and others on this thread, would be something that I think even Mike in this story would be like, whoa whoa whoa Nelly, that's carrying things a bit too the extreme don't cha think?

I disagree. Mike was entirely out of line.

I mean after all, we're just talking about looking, and that is all. What does it matter who the audience is?

If the girls are aware that their neighbor is a pervert/sex offender, they can still decide for themselves how they dress when they walk out of the house. If their own parents are concerned and wish for their daughters to cover up, that's fine. They are their parents, and have every right to express such concern.

In this situation, there is no danger to the girl's safety. It's just a guy who doesn't know how to tell his boys that it's rude to stare.

 

[Me Myself]

Well, Mike did kinda say "You daughters are bad elements for my childs. this is how you should correct them so they become decent persons with whom my child can interact. I am just nicely asking for your standards to be at least as good as mine ^-^"

I know I would get mad.

 

[Skwim]

the real issue is why a male looks at a female as a 'sexual trigger' in the first place!

HORMONES, plain and simple.

it doesnt have to, nor should it be that way...

Gotta take that one up with your god, who gave us those darn HORMONES.

I would like it if the men of the world viewed women as equals first and foremost.

Even if they do/did HORMONES would still be stirring the male libido.

 

[Me Myself]

the real issue is why a male looks at a female as a 'sexual trigger' in the first place!

it doesnt have to, nor should it be that way... I would like it if the men of the world viewed women as equals first and foremost.

Let me be as straight as posible.

We ARE sexual objects.

sure we are far more than that! that doesn´t mean that we are not sexual objects. Having interest in a girl´s personality and having interest in her body are not mutually exclusive.

Actually, if one had no sexual desire it would be uncommon. Not bad, hey, sex is not all there is in life! but it is certanly a satisfactory part of life.

Besides, if all women were more easily accesible, men would be far more interested in their personalities because they don´t have to use so much of their mind on how to undress them

Eh-hem! well not to go too off subject >_> <_<

 

[Pegg]

HORMONES, plain and simple.

Gotta take that one up with your god, who gave us those darn HORMONES.

Even if they do/did HORMONES would still be stirring the male libido.

Ok, lets blame it all on our hormones!

Do you realise that animals are controlled entirely by hormones? If someone thinks they are an animal, then perhaps they will behave like one. I like to think men are a step above your average ape!

but for those who are intelligent enough, they know how to make decisions and regulate themselves. I know many MANY men who do not allow themselves to be controlled by their hormones.

 

[work in progress]

Let me be as straight as posible.

We ARE sexual objects.

sure we are far more than that! that doesn´t mean that we are not sexual objects. Having interest in a girl´s personality and having interest in her body are not mutually exclusive.

Actually, if one had no sexual desire it would be uncommon. Not bad, hey, sex is not all there is in life! but it is certanly a satisfactory part of life.

Besides, if all women were more easily accesible, men would be far more interested in their personalities because they don´t have to use so much of their mind on how to undress them

Eh-hem! well not to go too off subject >_> <_<

I agree with everything except for that last comment. I don't think there is much a woman can do if boys are raised to be uptight, sexually repressed Jesus freaks. If one of my sons was spying on girls next door when they were younger, I would have told him to go and look for a chance to meet the girls.

When I read the first post, I started thinking to myself that I would have asked the dad if he wasn't the one who was watching and getting aroused by spying on the daughters....and then getting overcome with guilt, shame, and fear that he was going to lose his ticket to paradise and end up roasting in h - e - double hockey sticks if he allowed his lusts to lead him to temptation.

 

[Sunstone]

the real issue is why a male looks at a female as a 'sexual trigger' in the first place!

Instead of getting all moral about it, why not just be thankful your father did at least once in his life look at your mother "as a sexual trigger". Otherwise, Pegg, you would not be around today to be inexplicably puzzled by such things.

it doesnt have to, nor should it be that way... I would like it if the men of the world viewed women as equals first and foremost.

If a man cannot view women as both equals and as sexy too, that man was probably taught at a young age that it is women -- and not men themselves -- who are responsible for managing men's sexual desires. He was probably taught that women should cover themselves, keep their eyes downcast, and otherwise behave with excessive modesty because he, as a male, is incapable of taking responsibility for his own sexual desires. And if he believes that crap, then he probably is too emotionally immature to be able to view women as both equals and as sexy too.

 

[work in progress]

Pegg, some folks are so poorly educated in science that talking with them is like talking with someone from the 19th Century -- and they're probably proud of it. Did you know that?

Yeah, those guys are only fooling her or themselves if they are normal, functioning heterosexual men. I would consider "not being led by my hormones" as not allowing my natural sexual attractions to interfere with rational decision-making.

For example, my workplace has only had female employees in the last 20 years. Some of them I find really hot...others not so much...but I keep any sexual fantasies to myself...I don't flirt with them, make passes, exchange dirty jokes or dirty comments about them with the other guys, or do anything that can be interpreted as a sexual advance. And except for one or two exceptions, the women seem to prefer this approach, rather than to have guys trying to hook up with them at work. It's not a "sin" to feel lust or sexual arousal by a beautiful woman; what is a "sin" is to do something stupid to satisfy that sexual desire; and end up in divorce court.

 

[Pegg]

Instead of getting all moral about it, why not just be thankful your father did at least once in his life look at your mother "as a sexual trigger". Otherwise, Pegg, you would not be around today to be inexplicably puzzled by such things.

i think we need more people getting moral about it

If a man cannot view women as both equals and as sexy too, that man was probably taught at a young age that it is women -- and not men themselves -- who are responsible for managing men's sexual desires. He was probably taught that women should cover themselves, keep their eyes downcast, and otherwise behave with excessive modesty because he, as a male, is incapable of taking responsibility for his own sexual desires. And if he believes that crap, then he probably is too emotionally immature to be able to view women as both equals and as sexy too.

the problem is that most men do not view women as their equal because they think firstly in terms of sex...that is not equality.

testimony to that is seen by the fact that most men cheat on their wives, poloygamy has been practiced throughout the ages, men can have sex without being emotionally attached to a woman, many walk away from their own children when the girl he has been sleeping with falls pregnant, date rape is a common occurance, the prostitution and porn industry is exceedingly popular...shall i go on?

that is not equality....that is abuse. Women will never be on the same level as men as long as men continue to treat women in such vile ways.

Let me put it this way: Two men who respect each other...that is equality. Man who sees woman as sexual object in high heels??? not so much!

 

[Sunstone]

the problem is that most men do not view women as their equal because they think firstly in terms of sex...that is not equality.

testimony to that is seen by the fact that most men cheat on their wives, poloygamy has been practiced throughout the ages, men can have sex without being emotionally attached to a woman, many walk away from their own children when the girl he has been sleeping with falls pregnant, date rape is a common occurance, the prostitution and porn industry is exceedingly popular...shall i go on?

that is not equality....that is abuse. Women will never be on the same level as men as long as men continue to treat women in such vile ways.

Let me put it this way: Two men who respect each other...that is equality. Man who sees woman as sexual object in high heels??? not so much!

You do not know what you are talking about. If "most men" were like you say they are, you and every other woman on earth would be a sex slave at this very moment. Gawd, get real. Some men may be like you describe "most men", but most men are not nearly so vile as you scurrilously portray them to be.

 

[Pegg]

You do not know what you are talking about. If "most men" were like you say they are, you and every other woman on earth would be a sex slave at this very moment. Gawd, get real. Some men may be like you describe "most men", but most men are not nearly so vile as you scurrilously portray them to be.

do you know what the divorce statistics show?

they show that almost half of marriages break down...and do you know the top ranking cause of divorce is? Its infidelity...and not only men cheat, women too, so im not using this to pick on men, only to show that sexuality is a key problem in male female relationships.

Where is the most common place for the bucks party night to end up? At a strip clup....or with strippers.
What is a common complaint from men who have married? Not enough sex.

sex sex sex... and did i mention sex?

 

[work in progress]

the problem is that most men do not view women as their equal because they think firstly in terms of sex...that is not equality.

Let me put it this way: Two men who respect each other...that is equality. Man who sees woman as sexual object in high heels??? not so much!

The problem is that Judeo-Christian tradition does not view women as equal to men to begin with. The other problem is that the Christian solution is to live in denial because "having lust in your heart" is already the same as an overt sex crime.

A man can have sexual desires, and learn to control them and act responsibly in society. I can't help my physical reactions when I see a pretty girl walking down the street...and I will, as discreetly as possible, look for a chance to get a second look as she walks by. What I can do something about is how I deal with my physical desires. I don't have to tug off my wedding ring and follow her and start into some ********, lying pickup line that I'm really single, and really have a lot of money.

A man can learn to see that woman in high heels as an equal after he gets to know her and has concern for other things than her physical attractiveness.

 

[Pegg]

The problem is that Judeo-Christian tradition does not view women as equal to men to begin with. The other problem is that the Christian solution is to live in denial because "having lust in your heart" is already the same as an overt sex crime.

there is no such 'tradition' in christianity. It has only been around for 2,000 years. We have a whole 4,000 years of polygamy and sex slavery and women being treated like cattle to explain before christianity even appeared on the world stage.

A man can have sexual desires, and learn to control them and act responsibly in society. I can't help my physical reactions when I see a pretty girl walking down the street...and I will, as discreetly as possible, look for a chance to get a second look as she walks by. What I can do something about is how I deal with my physical desires. I don't have to tug off my wedding ring and follow her and start into some ********, lying pickup line that I'm really single, and really have a lot of money.

A man can learn to see that woman in high heels as an equal after he gets to know her and has concern for other things than her physical attractiveness.

I agree, a man certainly can. And many have done so and continue to do so.

Its just sad that it is something that needs to be 'learned'
Im pretty sure a man doesnt have to learn how to view another man as his equal. There is a mutual respect between men because they do not view each other in terms of sex.... I imagine it would be pretty hard to view a woman as your equal if you (not you personally) are secretly undressing her.

 

[Kathryn]

I'm coming in a bit late on this thread but here's my two cents' worth:

I think that boys' father is out of line. As the neighbor of a passle of home schooled kids whose parents are the epitome of weird (though the kids are sweet), my viewpoint may be biased. However, to be fair, my oldest daughter homeschools and she and her husband are way cool and "normal" - they would roll their eyes at the behavior of the boys' dad.

That being said, I'm a realistic person. If I had a house full of nubile girls (as I once did), and a house full of horny teens and preteens next door, I'd probably encourage my daughters to at least be very aware of this situation - and if they didn't want to be leered at (or worse -gak!) by pimply faced boys staring between the slats of the plantation shutters, they might want to a bit more careful about their choice of clothing.

Here's a novel idea. Offer to pay the horny boys to mow the yard. They'd probably jump at the chance to get closer to the objects of their desire, and they'd burn off some of that energy. And the girls can just hang out in the air conditioning and watch THEM thru the shutters for a change (trust me - they'll be laughing at them - not drooling).

Truth be known - the girls are probably very aware of their effect on their neighbors. Hope they're on birth control.

 

[Me Myself]

I agree with everything except for that last comment. I don't think there is much a woman can do if boys are raised to be uptight, sexually repressed Jesus freaks. If one of my sons was spying on girls next door when they were younger, I would have told him to go and look for a chance to meet the girls.

When I read the first post, I started thinking to myself that I would have asked the dad if he wasn't the one who was watching and getting aroused by spying on the daughters....and then getting overcome with guilt, shame, and fear that he was going to lose his ticket to paradise and end up roasting in h - e - double hockey sticks if he allowed his lusts to lead him to temptation.

When I said they should be more accesible I mean´t sex. And when I said women, I said all women in the world not only them . And all that I said as a joke too(Not that I wouldn´t enjooy it happening but women actually have strong psychological reasons to at least pretend to be hard to reach)

I do indeed agree sex isn´t bad on itself. But even supposing it is, that dad is not going to teach his kids to trascend flesh by never letting them be exposed to it. They are going to be exposed to it, if he thinks it´s so bad, at least teach him to deal with it, cause otherwise... Well in general even in the best way of handling all that sex repression just leads to serious thraumas an social problems

 

[Me Myself]

there is no such 'tradition' in christianity. It has only been around for 2,000 years. We have a whole 4,000 years of polygamy and sex slavery and women being treated like cattle to explain before christianity even appeared on the world stage.




I agree, a man certainly can. And many have done so and continue to do so.

Its just sad that it is something that needs to be 'learned'
Im pretty sure a man doesnt have to learn how to view another man as his equal. There is a mutual respect between men because they do not view each other in terms of sex.... but its pretty hard to view a woman as your equal when she is being secretly undressed by him.

1- I just need to say that is false. I can tell you a man would love to be secretly undressed by the women in the same manner. Even more so if it ceases to be discret. I honestly don´t see sex as a non-equal situation. Now, if he does not care to please her sexually while he pleases himself, then we have an unselfish scenario, but it wouldnáve anything to do with her being a woman an probably alot to do with the man simply being selfish.

2-To be fair, Christianity has a God Father, but no God Mother. To say there is no symbolic impact on that would be a lie. They also don´t allow women to be priests. and the "only son" was a son, not a daughter. I mean, I seriously beleive God could´ve had twins. Why only a moral role model for men?

I am not saying that christianity is sexist, but I do must point out that this things are symbols that reinforce power in masculinity without a female equivalent and they do affect human psicology.

What I do agree that society should be less sexist.

 

[idea]

2-To be fair, Christianity has a God Father, but no God Mother.

We believe in a Heavenly Mother.

15 She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.
16 Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.
17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace.
18 She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.
(Old Testament | Proverbs 3:15 - 18)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
At our church we have been having a big "modesty" push lately with lessons for the kiddos, and tonight we're having a back-to-school modest fashion show where everyone is supposed to wear a modest back-2-school outfit.

We don't tell other people what to wear... instead the guys wear t-shirts that say things like "modest is hottest"... everyone just tries to be a good example of what it means to have respect for yourself and for others.

I think it's sad to see little girls running around with a bunch of make-up on, short shorts etc. etc. ... they look like they don't get enough attention at home, that they are insecure, and doing everything they can to make someone love them... I wonder about their parents, why they are not protecting their kids more - seems like they don't hold families in very high regard, don't care about a "white" wedding day, don't care if their kids are putting the wrong message out and putting themselves in bad situations. We have kids, and try to teach them what real love is, what commitment, loyalty, and eternal families are all about... so sad to see people that do not have that in their life.... criticizing them does not help - just give them appropriate attention, be a good example, that's all you can do.

 

[Reverend Rick]

My question is how is natural sexual attraction a "problem"?

When the father of the boys made a request to the neighbors, the problem began IMHO.

 

[Poisonshady313]

We believe in a Heavenly Mother.

15 She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.
16 Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.
17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace.
18 She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.
(Old Testament | Proverbs 3:15 - 18)

"she" is wisdom, i.e. the Torah.

Of all the descriptions I've heard of the Torah, Heavenly Mother isn't one of them.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

"she" is wisdom, i.e. the Torah.

Of all the descriptions I've heard of the Torah, Heavenly Mother isn't one of them.

I'm sure that many Christian interpretations of the Jewish Scriptures are similarly creative.