mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
Yeah, how come we have the concept of methodlogical naturalism? Just answer that and you have your anwer about evidence.
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new age beliefs thats wrong
- Thread starter Starlight
- Start date
Yeah, how come we have the concept of methodlogical naturalism? Just answer that and you have your anwer about evidence.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It could be, but one would have to look at the motives. What did any of the Messengers of God stand to gain by making their claims?
All of them suffered persecution and Jesus and the Bab were put to death for their cause.. It makes no sense that they were con men.
You could try to claim that they were delusional and they only 'imagined' that they heard from God, but no delusional man could write like the Bab and Baha'u'llah.
“A certain Muhammad Karím, a native of Shíráz, who had been a witness to the rapidity and the manner in which the Báb had penned the verses with which He was inspired, has left the following testimony to posterity, after attaining, during those days, the presence of Bahá’u’lláh, and beholding with his own eyes what he himself had considered to be the only proof of the mission of the Promised One: “I bear witness that the verses revealed by Bahá’u’lláh were superior, in the rapidity with which they were penned, in the ease with which they flowed, in their lucidity, their profundity and sweetness to those which I, myself saw pour from the pen of the Báb when in His presence. Had Bahá’u’lláh no other claim to greatness, this were sufficient, in the eyes of the world and its people, that He produced such verses as have streamed this day from His pen.”
God Passes By, p. 138
That's what I did.
Starlight
Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
What do you mean? It which way? can you explain?
BS detector working fine here. It ratted out your petty post.
Sure, you said:
We do not go directly to heaven but have an afterlife and reincarnation on a soul growing process.
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
But what about going directly to Heaven for judgment and reassignment?
I can see where going "directly to heaven" can be possible without "being accepted in heaven" immediately after physical death. Doesn't scripture say the Throne of Judgment is in heaven? I'm not sure I'm recalling correctly, but I believe so.
Well, that makes more sense, but, I think the OP was seeing heaven as a permanent place of peace and love as in the Christian tradition.
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
I figure we have a long way to go before we can claim a heavenly existence collectively. Between now and then, we have life as we know it a lot of learning and development left, I honestly think that we'll learn how to better handle the stressors and perhaps live more peaceful lives in that heavenly existence day, but I'm thinking that life and death, pleasure and pain, you know the fundamentals, will remain. Seasons, if you will. Such is the cost of awareness and acceptance. Then again, maybe we all go to heaven after we die and it will be absolutely perfect for everyone who ever enters therein.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Most probably, they did not thunk of babies when they were at it.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Motives are clear, leadership of a group and the benefits it brings.
Bahaollah did not work for living all his life. Lived in mansions, and prepared the ground that after him, his son would be the leader.
They were not delusional, they were extra-smart, and knew that they could take advantage of their superstitious people.
Scammers universally are good at talking and writing. How, otherwise, they can fool their audience?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Do you man the benefits like being tortured and having attempts on His life and being exiled and imprisoned for almost 40 years?
Baha'u'llah only lived in a mansion for the last few years of His life.
Bahá’u’lláh moves to Bahjí - The Life of Bahá'u'lláh
In September 1879 ‘Abdu’l-Bahá rented a mansion that had been built by ‘Údí Khammár near ‘Akká. Named Bahjí (Delight), it was to be the home of Bahá’u’lláh for the remaining twelve and a half years of His life.
That is an outrageous accusation and has no basis in logic, but you need to believe what you believe.
Scammers universally are good at talking and writing but that doesn't mean all good writers and talkers are scammers.
No scammer could make up all of what Baha'u'llah wrote about God and so many other things, nor wouldh e have any reason to do so.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
I have mentioned many a times that Bahaollah was imprisoned just for four months (Siyah Chal, Tehran). He had strong support of the Ottomans and the British for political reasons. Elsewhere he was a detainee with restrictions on his free travel and not imprisoned.
"Bahá’u’lláh left the Riḍván garden on 3 May 1863 and proceeded with his family to Constantinople as guests of the Ottoman government, accompanied by a mounted government escort arranged for their protection by 'Ali Pasha, the Sultan’s prime minister. Other travelers included at least two dozen companions who requested Bahá’u’lláh’s permission to accompany him. After fifteen weeks Bahá’u’lláh arrived in the Ottoman capital on 16 August 1863. He was welcomed by various government ministers of the Sultan, and by prominent personalities who paid their respects."
He lived for four and a half years in Adrianople with his family and followers. Then they were moved to Akka barracks which were no less than a mansion. Mirza Mehdi died by a fall in Akka, but such accidents can happen anywhere. After 1871, his family was allowed to move to the town from the barracks. Then 1877-79 at Mazarih. Though formally still a prisoner of the Ottoman Empire, the final years of Baháʼu'lláh's life (1879–1892) were spent in the Mansion of Bahjí, just outside ‘Akká.
Yeah, all speakers and writers are not scammers, but there is no evidence that Bahaollah was not one. The reason as I have mentioned was being leader of a group and passing that leadership to his progeny. In case of Bahaollah, it lasted two generations.
Adrianople Mansion, Majarih, Bahji Mansion, Akka Barracks. (I agree that these building may not have this shape when Bahaollah lived there)
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Those who do Not repent according to the Bible do Not end up in any hell but simply perish - 2nd Peter 3:9
So, anyone saying God likes to throw people in any hell is Not biblical
The wicked are simply 'destroyed forever ' according to the Bible - Psalms 92:7; 104:35; 145:20; Proverbs 2:21-22
It only applies to those who assign meaning to the Bible in a certain way. Your interpretation is not factual or relevant to anyone who doesn’t agree with you.
Your God created hell for some reason (according to the lore). And it created people who would end up there. So it all falls on your God in the lore that you believe is true.
Exactly as your God created.
Interesting ^above^ about hell Not being a geographical location because I find in the Bible hell is a specific place/grave
The day Jesus died Jesus went to hell (Acts 2:27) biblical hell's location is simply the: stone-cold grave
In the Bible souls die and the dead know nothing, nothing but sound sleep - Ezekiel 18:4,20; Psalm 115:17; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Those who are 'victims of self and passion' (Like the people described at 2nd Timothy 3:1-5) can be ended up classed with the wicked who are simply gone ' destroyed forever ' - Psalms 92:7; 104:35; 145:20 - lights out forever
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
Isn't there a difference between "non-repent" and "wicked"? I would certainly think so.
Or, simply Not factual or Not relevant to anyone who disagrees with the Bible
Biblical hell (Not some religious-myth burning place) but biblical hell is simply the grave for the sleeping dead
The temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead til Resurrection Day (Resurrection Day Jesus' coming 1,000 yr. day)
Remember: the dead know nothing but sleep: Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14
Dead Jesus went to biblical hell but dead Jesus did Not end up staying there - Acts 2:27; 3:15
ALL the righteous and unrighteous (KJV says just and unjust) will be resurrected out of biblical hell/grave - Acts 24:15
The Bible God that I believe is True and does Not burn anyone. ( What is Non-physical that burns anyway ? )
Adam sent himself to the grave (biblical hell) by deliberately breaking the law of Genesis 2:17
No post-mortem burning for Adam, No double jeopardy to be paid for Adam, just going back to dust - Gen. 3:19
On other words, going back returning to the dust is biblical hell/ grave
Adam sent himself to his death, but God promised life 'a seed' (Messiah) to come and give us life - Gen. 3:15
'damning facts about the Bible' or typical false clergy teaching lies about the Bible
Such as: suffering after death when the dead know nothing - Ecclesiastes 9:5; Isaiah 38:18; Psalm 115:17; John 11:11-14
Before fashioned or formed Adam became a 'living soul' ( Gen. 2:7) Adam was lifeless clay
At death Adam simply 'returned' to where he started (Gen. 3:19) returning back to the dust of the ground
A person can Not 'return' to a place he never was before
All of Adam simply went from non-life, to life, and returned back to non-life
At death Adam became a dead life-less soul
'What's to judge' because the asking price tag for sin is simply 'death' ( Not death plus anything else - Romans 6:23,7)
So, the dead will be judged on what they do 'after' they are resurrected - Acts 24:15 ( KJV just and unjust )
Yes, the Judgement Throne is in Heaven. Only those who have a first or earlier resurrection are resurrected to Heaven
People like those mentioned at Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18 considered as saints or holy ones
They will govern in Heaven with Christ over Earth - Rev. 20:6; 5:9-10
As for those of us still alive on Earth at Jesus' coming Glory Time (Matt. 25:31-34,37) the 'sheep' are judged as righteous and can remain alive on Earth and be here to see calendar Day One of Jesus' 1000 yr. reign over Earth, this is when the physical resurrection on Earth will then take place for those Not called to govern in Heaven with Jesus