New Evidence Found To Show Humans Came From Fish

[Jose Fly]

How would it be possible on a FLAT Earth? Because the man Jesus could see China from Israel? Don't be ridiculous. In a heavenly perspective, they could see the parade of empires, of great leaders, of downfalls, of temptations, of all the things you yourself seek that fulfill you utterly--on a temporary basis only.

You're adding things to the text that just aren't there.

 

[Polymath257]

1. I could always make up gobbledygook, yes, but we're talking about two passages in the same Holy Book: 1 - punishment for x years for ISRAEL 2 - multiplication of punishment for ISRAEL.

No, you are talking passages in two different books that were later assembled into one.

 

[Polymath257]

1. I could always make up gobbledygook, yes, but we're talking about two passages in the same Holy Book: 1 - punishment for x years for ISRAEL 2 - multiplication of punishment for ISRAEL.

2. Ezekiel prophesied 430 years of captivity, there were 70 in the Babylonian diaspora - you can visit skeptic sites now (that miss the 7 times bit) that say the Roman diaspora should have lasted 360 years (430 minus time served).

3. Yes, changes between the 360-day biblical calendar and the 365.25 solar/Gregorian/leap year are accounted for--360x360x7 = days in Gregorian calendar between decree of Cyrus and May 14, 1948 to the DAY.

4. Not "Passover" is in the Septuagint. Don't be trite, I beg you. We are handling the Word of God. How do I know so (doctrinally, not relationally)? Because Daniel is in the Septuagint, the Septuagint dates to circa 250 BCE, and there is a prophecy saying a precise number of years will pass between the decree to rebuild Jerusalem's broken wall system and the "Cutting off of Messiah, the Prince" that becomes an April date of Passover in 29 AD!! You know Jesus was born in 4 BC per scholars - He died at 33 1/2...

You didn't address the idea that the original 430 rather than the 360 should be multiplied by 7.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

2. Ezekiel prophesied 430 years of captivity, there were 70 in the Babylonian diaspora - you can visit skeptic sites now (that miss the 7 times bit) that say the Roman diaspora should have lasted 360 years (430 minus time served).

3. Yes, changes between the 360-day biblical calendar and the 365.25 solar/Gregorian/leap year are accounted for--360x360x7 = days in Gregorian calendar between decree of Cyrus and May 14, 1948 to the DAY.

So what was the first day of the 7 x 360 x 360 = 907200 days that ended on May 14, 1948?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Are you saying I ignore your questions because of your bitter spirit? Yes.

Why would I say that? It's more likely that you ignore what is written to you because you're not really paying attention to what others say.

Moreover, why would you say that? Because I challenge your beliefs? I'm a happy guy. I hope you are as well.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

You didn't address the idea that the original 430 rather than the 360 should be multiplied by 7.

Good catch.

He also ignored Penguin's objection that when he needs them to be, years are 360 days long, but that when he refers to a captivity, he cites 70 years and then subtracts 70 from a Julian (365.25 day years) or Gregorian date (365.2425 day years).

And he has never acknowledged why his numbers point to modern calendars anyway. The Hebrew calendar was in effect then and in Israel today. I'd like to see his prophetic arithmetic applied to the Hebrew years for 538 BCE and mid-1948 CE

***

Why 365.2425 day years? If there were a leap year every four years as there is in the Julian calendar, the figure would be 365.25.

But in the Gregorian calendar, years ending in 00 (1800, 1900) aren't leap years unless the year is exactly divisible by 400 (2000) - every four centuries. If every 25th year divisible by 25 were ignored, the year would be 365.24 days long. Restore a quarter of those, and it increases to 365.2425.

The astronomical year - one lap around the sun - is more like 365.242199 days, but the Gregorian calendar year is slightly greater.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Good catch.

He also ignored Penguin's objection that when he needs them to be, years are 360 days long, but that when he refers to a captivity, he cites 70 years and then subtracts 70 from a Julian (365.25 day years) or Gregorian date (365.2425 day years).

And he has never acknowledged why his numbers point to modern calendars anyway. The Hebrew calendar was in effect then and in Israel today. I'd like to see his prophetic arithmetic applied to the Hebrew years for 538 BCE and mid-1948 CE

***

Why 365.2425 day years? If there were a leap year every four years as there is in the Julian calendar, the figure would be 365.25.

But in the Gregorian calendar, years ending in 00 (1800, 1900) aren't leap years unless the year is exactly divisible by 400 (2000) - every four centuries. If every 25th year divisible by 25 were ignored, the year would be 365.24 days long. Restore a quarter of those, and it increases to 365.2425.

The astronomical year - one lap around the sun - is more like 365.242199 days, but the Gregorian calendar year is slightly greater.

If this were an actually a half decent prophecy, we shouldn't have to do all this, imo.

 

[BilliardsBall]

A true prophecy would actually predict something with startling accuracy and detail. This prophecy does not do that.

I'm saying your "prophecy" doesn't actually sound all that amazing at all, given that you have to manipulate a bunch of random numbers and dates and perform all kinds of bizarre math to get the numbers you want. I can do similar things with Nostradamus' prophecies and make them sound like something important when in actuality, I'm just putting my own spin on it to make it into what I want it to be. That's what appears to be going on here. People have worked backwards from the date that Israel officially became it's own state, then played around with and manipulated various numbers in order to produce the desired date. And it's not like Israel just magically turned into a sovereign state one day - rather people worked for years to make it happen. Like I said, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It seems to me that a god who actually cares about us knowing the truth would make it more obvious than this. And if "he" doesn't, then I must conclude that "he" doesn't exist, or doesn't care for the truth to be plain and obvious. I'm just pointing out what makes sense to me and what doesn't. To me, a god who hides and doesn't produce itself to anyone who doesn't already believe is a useless god who doesn't care enough about it's people to be straightforward with them.

Not to mention the fact that if you could actually prove that a prophecy came to fruition, you still won't have proven the existence of any god(s). At most, you could maybe confirm that some humans at some point in time are able to foresee the future.

And lastly, I often find then when we read the actual verses in question, they don't really turn out to sound as amazingly prophetic as they are claimed to be. You have no provided any verses though, so I do not know which ones you are referring to.

You aren't addressing what I posed: the two Bible passages that predict the return of Israel nail the SPECIFIC date of May 14, 1948. If this is true, your post is irrelevant.

 

[BilliardsBall]

So you say. Sorry, but I need a lot more than just your claims.

If I overcome my self-destructive behavior by believing in the healing power of unicorns, does that mean healing unicorns actually exist? I don't think so.

You ignored the rest of my post so I guess that's it.

Okay--what do you need? What would change about your life that you would feel it would be supernatural, not natural?

 

[BilliardsBall]

You're adding things to the text that just aren't there.

Yes, you are.

 

[BilliardsBall]

No, you are talking passages in two different books that were later assembled into one.

Which makes the fulfillment of X times Y equals a real date in history all the more satisfying. Thanks for making the case for me!

 

[BilliardsBall]

You didn't address the idea that the original 430 rather than the 360 should be multiplied by 7.

70 years "off" for Babylonian captivity. 360 times 7 (430 minus 70 times 7)!

 

[BilliardsBall]

So what was the first day of the 7 x 360 x 360 = 907200 days that ended on May 14, 1948?

You tell me--do the math, then find the answers you seek online, then trust in Christ (would be the natural outcome, I ain't proselytizing here).

 

[BilliardsBall]

Why would I say that? It's more likely that you ignore what is written to you because you're not really paying attention to what others say.

Moreover, why would you say that? Because I challenge your beliefs? I'm a happy guy. I hope you are as well.

I'm happy today to chat with you. I like you.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You aren't addressing what I posed: the two Bible passages that predict the return of Israel nail the SPECIFIC date of May 14, 1948. If this is true, your post is irrelevant.

Clearly they don't give that specific date or you wouldn't be having to do all of these mathematical and mental gymnastics to get the date you need.

Please note you have not provided any Bible passages to me.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Okay--what do you need? What would change about your life that you would feel it would be supernatural, not natural?

E V I D E N C E

 

[Jose Fly]

Yes, you are.

So all you can muster is "I know you are, but what am I'?

I guess we're done then.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

You aren't addressing what I posed: the two Bible passages that predict the return of Israel nail the SPECIFIC date of May 14, 1948. If this is true, your post is irrelevant.

That claim and its accompanying argument were refuted, and you declined to respond to the specific points made. That's your prerogative, but your claim is dead in the water until you do.

If you care to appeal to rational skeptics and critical thinkers, you need to understand the rules on this side of the reason/faith line. If you fail to address specific criticism, it is treated as if you cannot. There is no duty to repeat a rebuttal that you ignored it and continue to post as if it never happened.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

You tell me--do the math, then find the answers you seek online, then trust in Christ (would be the natural outcome, I ain't proselytizing here).

Your argument is dead. You claimed that the prophecies take us to a specific date and cannot show how. You ask me to do it for you when I've already told you that you cannot add any number of days to a calendar year and arrive at a specific date.

And of course you're proselytizing. What else would you be doing? You aren't debating. You evade most of the rebuttals offered. You still won't answer why the prophecy uses a random calendar - the Gregorian - rather than the calendar of the people who were told the prophecy, why the first 70 (430 BCE - 360 BCE) years isn't multiplied by seven, why those 70 years between two common era calendar dates uses a 360 day year rather than a 365.2425 day year that the common era calendar uses, or how you get from a year to a date adding days.

What's the date (including month and day) 50,000 days after 1971? It's a ridiculous question. One needs to know whether to start from February 2nd of that year, or June 6th, or November 11th, or whatever.

What's you explanation for evading every one of those questions?

That's a rhetorical question that need not be answered.

First, there is no expectation that you would ever tackle an inconvenient question.

Second, it is understood that you have no satisfactory answers because your argument is fatally flawed, you can see that, but still continue to assert it. Nothing says "faith" and why so many of us eschew it for reason better than that.

You're grasping at nothingness for validity, seeing it shot down, and running from that because you have chosen faith over reason and now finding yourself forced to take indefensible positions believed by faith but contradicted by evidence and/or reason.

 

[Polymath257]

70 years "off" for Babylonian captivity. 360 times 7 (430 minus 70 times 7)!

It said the punishment was to be multiplied by 7, so 430x7.