New Evidence Found To Show Humans Came From Fish

[Milton Platt]

So, is this article suggesting that this theory trumps Darwin's theory of evolution, or can this theory co-exist with it?

To me the whole idea of macro-evolution isn't feasible, practical, viable or even plausible.

What do you replace it with that supports the evidence we have and omits none of it?

 

[Milton Platt]

It's hard to disagree with that statement.

From the linked article.....

This appears to be the first evidence of a lawyer.

My how they have evolved.....and it shows that not all changes are for the better. They now consume money and other people's lives.

 

[Revoltingest]

My how they have evolved.....and it shows that not all changes are for the better. They now consume money and other people's lives.

You bordered on the poetic there.

 

[BilliardsBall]

This is not an answer to my question. It's probably time to drop it if I have to carry you through this. Thus far,it's felt like rolling a mossy boulder up an icy hill into a headwind during a mudslide. Do you even remember my original question any more? I doubt it.

And you don't gladly answer. You gladly avoid and evade. How many times have you been called on this lately, and how many times have you addressed your critics when you have?

That isn't a successful strategy for dealing with inconvenient questions of it keeps being pointed out.

I'd rather not go back endless through posts. I thought your question was "Why didn't I respond to your comments regarding past hurts that are forgiven," which seemed important. Obviously, another question is bothering you, so please share it and I will answer it!

Also, I'm not evading, although I admit I tend to be Socratic in method and ask questions as often as I give answers. But I do think you are looking for (flimsy) excuses to disagree with me so you can duck the real issues). I'm a normal person, not a sociopath!

 

[BilliardsBall]

Luther missed a verse? That's creative.

The Hebrews had a word for sphere - "dur." It is used elsewhere in the Old Testament, but not when describing the earth. Isaiah 22:18 says Yahweh ”will turn and toss you like a ball (ka-dur).” Isaiah 22:18 Hebrew Text Analysis

The Hebrew word used was "chuwg" - circle. A circle is no more a sphere than a square is a cube or a triangle a pyramid.

BlueLetterBible has easy-to-use concordances which can tell you (as they've told apologists on this issue in the past) that it can also mean "as in a circle, round about". "Yahweh will toss you around" rather than "toss you like a ball". I do not know if the ancient Hebrews used round balls. I tend to think of round balls as limited wooden or very modern rubber/plastic!

 

[BilliardsBall]

I had other objections, but as usual, you ignored them.

The calculation I've seen ends with 1948.5, which is mid-year, or about June 30th, or about an eighth of a real year (they're not 360 days). And 45 days is a big miss for a god trying to demonstrate his prophetic prowess.

As indicated, you ignored the salient points to yet another post. There's no point in my even naming them to you, since when I have in the past, it wasn't incentive enough for you to either got back and address those issues, or to not do it the next chance you had to do so.

The rebuttal and its three central points all remain unanswered and therefore stand. The temple prophecy is low quality prophecy, and the argument you provided has no persuasive power. As I indicated, and one of the many points you ignored, one can use the same Bible to show that it predicted any date you like if all that is necessary is to find numbers that can be combined to arrive at a pre-decided result - the sine qua non of self-fulfilling prophecy.

This matter, like so many others with you, has stalled at this juncture.

I understand. My point was that 45 days is close looking at 2,520 years. My other point was that the calculation you've seen is "1948.5" while I've seen someone take the date of the Cyrus declaration (which was, after all EXACTLY 70 years after the captivity began) and put the dates through the Gregorian and leap year days (solar 365.25 and so on against biblical 360-day year) and get MAY 14, 1948 PRECISELY. You are busy showing me the refutation someone else posted online. It's incorrect (or less correct, if you prefer).

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I'd rather not go back endless through posts. I thought your question was "Why didn't I respond to your comments regarding past hurts that are forgiven," which seemed important. Obviously, another question is bothering you, so please share it and I will answer it!

Nah. You need to be more heedful of the questions the first time they are asked. You can identify them by the squiggly little character that comes at their end: "?" I also have no interest in going through those posts ro re-ask you questions that you ignored the first time.

Would it help you to recognize that you've had a question asked of you by italicizing it, underlining it, selecting bold for it , and magnifying its pica? Would a sound track help announcing that you have been asked a question?

 

[SkepticThinker]

I understand. My point was that 45 days is close looking at 2,520 years. My other point was that the calculation you've seen is "1948.5" while I've seen someone take the date of the Cyrus declaration (which was, after all EXACTLY 70 years after the captivity began) and put the dates through the Gregorian and leap year days (solar 365.25 and so on against biblical 360-day year) and get MAY 14, 1948 PRECISELY. You are busy showing me the refutation someone else posted online. It's incorrect (or less correct, if you prefer).

This whole thing seems silly to me. Apparently you have to jump through hoops and do all kinds of strange math to make this prophecy sorta kinda appear to be true.
A true prophecy should not be so muddled and open to personal bias and interpretation. Why couldn't god just write in the Bible that Israel will become it's on nation on May 14, 1948, instead of all this nonsense? That would be convincing to me. This stuff is not.

 

[BilliardsBall]

It actually is not a deterrence. When a violator of the law has nothing left to lose, he is more likely to go for extreme violence rather than tempering it. A society that is strong enough to be able and willing to offer hope to its worst transgressors will be far robust for every one in it, than one which fails to do so. A society that focuses more on the emotional, psychological and emotional healing of those scarred by acts of violence, the victims and the bereaved rather than the cheap and barbaric thrill whether the criminal got a death sentence or not, will do much better for its citizens. I do not understand why criminals and court cases have almost a celebrity status and TV exposure. It is true that our emotions are tuned to the tribal ways of lawlessness where extracting blood vengeance is the only way order can be kept. Just like out penchant for fatty foods or to addictive substances, such emotions do not serve our true needs. This true both at a personal level and at a political level. What was the effect of the blind lashing out by the US after 9/11 achieve? More suffering from every direction. A careful espionage work followed by abduction or assassination of the groups responsible would have (and did) take longer but would have been (and was) more effective. One is constantly faced with injustice and unfairness. Some use that anger to become terrorists and other use it to become King or Gandhi. Which way works is abundantly clear is it not?

I appreciate your strong feelings here, but killing a murderer is certainly, logically, 100% deterrence to them, to that killer, ever repeating murder. Do you disagree?

 

[sayak83]

I appreciate your strong feelings here, but killing a murderer is certainly, logically, 100% deterrence to them, to that killer, ever repeating murder. Do you disagree?

I do not.
Killing all Muslims is 100% deterrence to any future Islamic terrorism too. Do you disagree?
Killing all North Koreans would completely solve the nuclear threat from that nation. Do you disagree?

I did not express my feelings, only reasons. Ethics is about reasons, though feelings can sometimes help . You should read the reasons carefully. If a murderer knows that his only fate is death, he will vastly escalate his actions, may be take hostage to a school or nightclub and go out with a bang, killing as many and as publicly as possible. A murderer who have given up hope of life becomes the terrorist.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Wait a minute here. First, you get the multiplication by 7 from a completely different source. This is the type of numerology that shows a completely wrong 'prophesy'. You can *always* make up some numerical gobbledegook to do *anything*. That this was so well 'hidden' shows it to NOT be a prophesy, but special pleading.

Second, you would *expect* to multiply the *punishment* by 7, in other words, the 430, not the 360. That would put things 490 years later.

Third, did you take into consideration changes in calendar? And why do you think it is down to the day? That wasn't explained.





Wow. Passover appears in the Septuagint. Remarkable.

1. I could always make up gobbledygook, yes, but we're talking about two passages in the same Holy Book: 1 - punishment for x years for ISRAEL 2 - multiplication of punishment for ISRAEL.

2. Ezekiel prophesied 430 years of captivity, there were 70 in the Babylonian diaspora - you can visit skeptic sites now (that miss the 7 times bit) that say the Roman diaspora should have lasted 360 years (430 minus time served).

3. Yes, changes between the 360-day biblical calendar and the 365.25 solar/Gregorian/leap year are accounted for--360x360x7 = days in Gregorian calendar between decree of Cyrus and May 14, 1948 to the DAY.

4. Not "Passover" is in the Septuagint. Don't be trite, I beg you. We are handling the Word of God. How do I know so (doctrinally, not relationally)? Because Daniel is in the Septuagint, the Septuagint dates to circa 250 BCE, and there is a prophecy saying a precise number of years will pass between the decree to rebuild Jerusalem's broken wall system and the "Cutting off of Messiah, the Prince" that becomes an April date of Passover in 29 AD!! You know Jesus was born in 4 BC per scholars - He died at 33 1/2...

 

[BilliardsBall]

And why would you do that? Neither the Gregorian nor the Julian calendars were used at the time.



No, it was off by 490 years: you didn't include the 70 years from the original 430 when you multiplied by 7.

Addressed on another post.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Yes it is; that's the entire point behind the argument!


But the prescience is only realized after science makes and confirms the discovery. Remove science from the argument and it completely falls apart.


No it doesn't. It says "circle", which is flat. It also says Satan took Jesus to a mountaintop where they could see all the kingdoms of the world. Obviously that's not possible on a spherical earth.

How would it be possible on a FLAT Earth? Because the man Jesus could see China from Israel? Don't be ridiculous. In a heavenly perspective, they could see the parade of empires, of great leaders, of downfalls, of temptations, of all the things you yourself seek that fulfill you utterly--on a temporary basis only.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I had other objections, but as usual, you ignored them.

The calculation I've seen ends with 1948.5, which is mid-year, or about June 30th, or about an eighth of a real year (they're not 360 days). And 45 days is a big miss for a god trying to demonstrate his prophetic prowess.

As indicated, you ignored the salient points to yet another post. There's no point in my even naming them to you, since when I have in the past, it wasn't incentive enough for you to either got back and address those issues, or to not do it the next chance you had to do so.

The rebuttal and its three central points all remain unanswered and therefore stand. The temple prophecy is low quality prophecy, and the argument you provided has no persuasive power. As I indicated, and one of the many points you ignored, one can use the same Bible to show that it predicted any date you like if all that is necessary is to find numbers that can be combined to arrive at a pre-decided result - the sine qua non of self-fulfilling prophecy.

This matter, like so many others with you, has stalled at this juncture.

I'm not ignoring you at all. The calculation you've seen is incomplete. We have the date of Cyrus's decree in the Bible, which dates to at least 250 BCE--although I think it's earlier. A date plus 360 days times 360 years times 7 equals May 14, 1948, not "1948 1/2". If you take the Cyrus date some scholars go for, the date would be in the Spring of '48 and not June, regardless. May is a lovely spring month in Eretz Israel.

What do I think when someone says "the prophesy of 907,200 days (3360*360*7) is off by 30 days!"? I think I'll say that you quoted an archaeologist/historian/Bible parser off by 30 days, and I'll say you are in denial about some very important things.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Nah. You need to be more heedful of the questions the first time they are asked. You can identify them by the squiggly little character that comes at their end: "?" I also have no interest in going through those posts ro re-ask you questions that you ignored the first time.

Would it help you to recognize that you've had a question asked of you by italicizing it, underlining it, selecting bold for it , and magnifying its pica? Would a sound track help announcing that you have been asked a question?

There is no need to be facetious. You linked me several times to a brief post of yours, written some time ago, stressing that you forgave and forgot regarding some (serious) past hurts. I appreciate that desire to forgive and forget. Is forgiving and forgetting "loving"?

Are you saying I ignore your questions because of your bitter spirit? Yes.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Luther missed a verse? That's creative.

The Hebrews had a word for sphere - "dur." It is used elsewhere in the Old Testament, but not when describing the earth. Isaiah 22:18 says Yahweh ”will turn and toss you like a ball (ka-dur).” Isaiah 22:18 Hebrew Text Analysis

The Hebrew word used was "chuwg" - circle. A circle is no more a sphere than a square is a cube or a triangle a pyramid.

Ancient Hebrew children did not use round balls for play. Round balls for play are modern in scope--rubber, plastic, etc. Wood balls don't stay true or uniform long in play.

God will "spin you around" not "move you in a circular fashion". That's what the concordance I looked at first said.

 

[BilliardsBall]

This whole thing seems silly to me. Apparently you have to jump through hoops and do all kinds of strange math to make this prophecy sorta kinda appear to be true.
A true prophecy should not be so muddled and open to personal bias and interpretation. Why couldn't god just write in the Bible that Israel will become it's on nation on May 14, 1948, instead of all this nonsense? That would be convincing to me. This stuff is not.

I cannot tell if you're being rhetorical (you answer your own question above) but:

1. The Bible also says God hides Himself from those not interested. He gives just enough to bring you in, and does a great job at that, if you're open.

2. Are you open or closed?

3. You may be closed, because you write silly things like "A true prophecy should not be so muddled and open to personal bias and interpretation." I'll be sure to tell God your complaint when I see Him! After all, you know what is best for God to do!

4. You may be open, because sometimes you ask questions without rhetorically answering them.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Many people come off self-destructive behaviour with no god or Jesus at all. Many people come off self-destructive behaviour by turning to Allah or Buddha. Many people who have already turned to Jesus or god(s) many times, never manage to overcome their self-destructive behaviours. And many people have asked for Christ's transformative power and found nothing at all.

Even if admitting one's lack of willpower and believing in Jesus were the only way people were able to change their self-destructive behaviours, I still don't see how that would be evidence for the existence of the Christian god. It would be evidence that people are able to overcome their self-destructive behaviours by making changes to their mindset/lifestyle.

A transformed life is a hallmark of Jesus's Spirit in our lives. Yes, some people "overcome self-destructive behavior" but in the Christian life, it's often far more glorious than back to even!

 

[SkepticThinker]

I cannot tell if you're being rhetorical (you answer your own question above) but:

1. The Bible also says God hides Himself from those not interested. He gives just enough to bring you in, and does a great job at that, if you're open.

2. Are you open or closed?

3. You may be closed, because you write silly things like "A true prophecy should not be so muddled and open to personal bias and interpretation." I'll be sure to tell God your complaint when I see Him! After all, you know what is best for God to do!

4. You may be open, because sometimes you ask questions without rhetorically answering them.

A true prophecy would actually predict something with startling accuracy and detail. This prophecy does not do that.

I'm saying your "prophecy" doesn't actually sound all that amazing at all, given that you have to manipulate a bunch of random numbers and dates and perform all kinds of bizarre math to get the numbers you want. I can do similar things with Nostradamus' prophecies and make them sound like something important when in actuality, I'm just putting my own spin on it to make it into what I want it to be. That's what appears to be going on here. People have worked backwards from the date that Israel officially became it's own state, then played around with and manipulated various numbers in order to produce the desired date. And it's not like Israel just magically turned into a sovereign state one day - rather people worked for years to make it happen. Like I said, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It seems to me that a god who actually cares about us knowing the truth would make it more obvious than this. And if "he" doesn't, then I must conclude that "he" doesn't exist, or doesn't care for the truth to be plain and obvious. I'm just pointing out what makes sense to me and what doesn't. To me, a god who hides and doesn't produce itself to anyone who doesn't already believe is a useless god who doesn't care enough about it's people to be straightforward with them.

Not to mention the fact that if you could actually prove that a prophecy came to fruition, you still won't have proven the existence of any god(s). At most, you could maybe confirm that some humans at some point in time are able to foresee the future.

And lastly, I often find then when we read the actual verses in question, they don't really turn out to sound as amazingly prophetic as they are claimed to be. You have no provided any verses though, so I do not know which ones you are referring to.

 

[SkepticThinker]

A transformed life is a hallmark of Jesus's Spirit in our lives. Yes, some people "overcome self-destructive behavior" but in the Christian life, it's often far more glorious than back to even!

So you say. Sorry, but I need a lot more than just your claims.

If I overcome my self-destructive behavior by believing in the healing power of unicorns, does that mean healing unicorns actually exist? I don't think so.

You ignored the rest of my post so I guess that's it.