New gender?

[Smart_Guy]

Couldn't he... um, she...



Couldn't they have wiped the shine off their nose first before taking the picture?

Shiny noses turn me off

 

[SkylarHunter]

Or maybe you're jealous that he is wearing it better than you can?

I assure you that is not the case, but even if it was, once you remove the dresses, I have the real thing while he is a fake. Why would I be jealous of a fake?

 

[SkylarHunter]

Care for some salt to go with that pretzel logic of yours?

Sorry, too much salt is bad for you and I don't want to feel responsible for any health problems you might have in the future :no:

 

[dust1n]

I love decadence. I really love it when it when it's not actually decadent at all and annoys people like it is decadent. That's my favorite sort of decadence.

 

[Gehennaite]

Anyway, any thoughts on the new species?

This is nothing new. This is textbook transvestitism...

Transvestites are different from transsexuals & transgenders in the fact that transvestites are not striving to necessarily define themselves as the gender opposite of what they were born. As a result, transvestites differ on whether or not they like to be referred to as a he or a she.

I don't know which gender this person wishes to identify with, but I refuse to refer to this person as a "she". The beard, along with body hair, are unique attributes of the male species. As a result, I cannot objectively refer to a transvestite as a "she" if he still possess either physical trait.

And, I cannot comprehend why a "psychological" woman would want a beard in the first place. I looked up other photos of him and discovered that he got rid of his body hair... so why the beard?

 

[columbus]

I assure you that is not the case, but even if it was, once you remove the dresses, I have the real thing while he is a fake. Why would I be jealous of a fake?

We're looking for explanations for why people are so mean to other people.

Drag queens are odd. I find them off-putting myself. But they don't hurt anyone or anything, describing them as subhuman is much worse behavior.

Tom

 

[Alceste]

This is nothing new. This is textbook transvestitism...

Transvestites are different from transsexuals & transgenders in the fact that transvestites are not striving to necessarily define themselves as the gender opposite of what they were born. As a result, transvestites differ on whether or not they like to be referred to as a he or a she.

I don't know which gender this person wishes to identify with, but I refuse to refer to this person as a "she". The beard, along with body hair, are unique attributes of the male species. As a result, I cannot objectively refer to a transvestite as a "she" if he still possess either physical trait.

And, I cannot comprehend why a "psychological" woman would want a beard in the first place. I looked up other photos of him and discovered that he got rid of his body hair... so why the beard?

If you had watched the interview St. Frank posted, your questions would have been answered. He created Conchita - the bearded lady, he calls her - to draw attention to intolerance and provoke public conversation on the subject.

It's also a character he is playing for public performance, and has little or nothing to do with his own personal self image or sexuality.

Mission accomplished, as far as drawing ignorance and intolerance out of the closet is concerned.

 

[Penumbra]

I'm not nearly as ignorant as you believe. That was not the point anyway.

People want to turn themselves into freaks because they want attention and that's the best way they can find to get it, their choice. I don't have to approve it, I don't have to like it. If you want to call me a few names that's no problem.

Like Sunstone wisely put it, these people are decadent.
Personally, I like men who look like men, not men who need to disguise themselves as half women so people look at them.

What's so wrong with variety? What makes someone a freak if they're not harming anyone?

When Europeans came across the natives of what is today North and South America, they found that many tribes had people in them that were gender-nonconforming. Today they would be described as transgender while others were homosexual, although their labeling and category system was different than modern terms. These people were generally held in high esteem in their cultures, as "two-spirts", twice blessed, for having attributes of both common genders/sexes.

But Europeans had a problem with this, looked at them as freaks, because they couldn't understand them or why they were tolerated or even embraced, with their own rigid binary views of gender and sex.

People seem to strive constantly to put limits on everything.

 

[Penumbra]

I don't know which gender this person wishes to identify with, but I refuse to refer to this person as a "she". The beard, along with body hair, are unique attributes of the male species. As a result, I cannot objectively refer to a transvestite as a "she" if he still possess either physical trait.

And, I cannot comprehend why a "psychological" woman would want a beard in the first place. I looked up other photos of him and discovered that he got rid of his body hair... so why the beard?

There are women that grow beards and substantial body hair. It's uncommon, and it's generally caused by a hormonal imbalance.

Would you not refer to them as "she"?

The person highlighted in this thread is purposely doing it in the persona, though.

 

[dawny0826]

I saw this photo today. Apparently this is a candidate in the Eurovision singing contest. I'm still trying to figure out what he/she/it is. Maybe there is a new gender and someone forgot to tell me.

Anyway, any thoughts on the new species?

As a makeup artist, the first thing that came to my mind when seeing this photo was - yeah, I probably would have chosen different falsies for this look, but, dang! What amazing skin!

What I noticed right away is how little makeup this individual needed to achieve this look. Most drag makeup requires a great deal of contouring, shading and highlighting and usually - brow blocking with drawn on brows. I LOVE that there's a natural brow in this look.

Drag typically exaggerates feminine or masculine characteristics and in a way that's designed to be FUN and artistic.

 

[Gehennaite]

If you had watched the interview St. Frank posted, your questions would have been answered. He created Conchita - the bearded lady, he calls her - to draw attention to intolerance and provoke public conversation on the subject.

It's also a character he is playing for public performance, and has little or nothing to do with his own personal self image or sexuality.

Mission accomplished, as far as drawing ignorance and intolerance out of the closet is concerned.

I watched the video. I concluded that he was a transvestite male; therefore "he". That was all.

Return to my response and explain what is ignorant/intolerant about it. Your accusatory & condescending response is uncalled for...

Would you not refer to them as "she"?

The person highlighted in this thread is purposely doing it in the persona, though.

Of course I'd refer to a biological female, acting within its natural parameters, as a "she".

An anatomical male with a beard, however, is a "he". If this person didn't have a beard, but was still anatomically male, I would've had no problem referring to them as a "she"... especially if that was their intention.

I actually respect the TV/TS/TG community. If you can logically refute why "transvestite male" is unsuitable (or as Alceste puts it: ignorant/intolerant) then feel free to enlighten us...

 

[Alceste]

I watched the video. I concluded that he was a transvestite male; therefore "he". That was all.

Return to my response and explain what is ignorant/intolerant about it. Your accusatory & condescending response is uncalled for...

Of course I'd refer to a biological female, acting within its natural parameters, as a "she".

An anatomical male with a beard, however, is a "he". If this person didn't have a beard, but was still anatomically male, I would've had no problem referring to them as a "she"... especially if that was their intention.

I actually respect the TV/TS/TG community. If you can logically refute why "transvestite male" is unsuitable (or as Alceste puts it: ignorant/intolerant) then feel free to enlighten us...

If it helps to untwist your panties, I was referring to intolerance and ignorance in this thread in general, starting with the OP. Not to you, specifically.

But you were confused why he shaves his body hair but not his beard. I'm telling you why, based on the interview: this character, Conchita, is a BEARDED lady. Very simple, and nothing new.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Argggg! The sea finally got to poor Capt. Jack Sparrow.

 

[Penumbra]

Of course I'd refer to a biological female, acting within its natural parameters, as a "she".

An anatomical male with a beard, however, is a "he". If this person didn't have a beard, but was still anatomically male, I would've had no problem referring to them as a "she"... especially if that was their intention.

I actually respect the TV/TS/TG community. If you can logically refute why "transvestite male" is unsuitable (or as Alceste puts it: ignorant/intolerant) then feel free to enlighten us...

I don't think pronouns are particularly important for a transvestite. He's a guy, and in persona he's acting as a woman, but for actual transgender/transsexual people, they're permanently of a certain gender identity and pronouns are important.

So I don't really care what pronouns people use on this person.

I just find it odd that facial and body hair would be your deciding factor regarding pronoun usage. Especially because, facial and body hair, are within the natural parameters of women, although it's unusual. If he's putting on the persona of a bearded woman, that doesn't necessarily make his character less of a woman, in the same way that actual women with beards, aren't any less female because they have beards. It just seems inconsistent- to say his character doesn't get to be labeled as a woman because of a beard but naturally-born females do get to be women even if they have a beard. It's like, his character only gets to be a woman if he's conforming to some specific type of woman?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Well, it also happens that talent gets labeled as narcissistic.

Because it often is just narcissism.

 

[Penumbra]

Because it often is just narcissism.

Probably if someone stands out in some way we should pound them back into place, right?

Unique individuals are just narcissistic for not wanting to always express themselves as the rest of us usually do?

 

[Alceste]

I don't think pronouns are particularly important for a transvestite. He's a guy, and in persona he's acting as a woman, but for actual transgender/transsexual people, they're permanently of a certain gender identity and pronouns are important.

So I don't really care what pronouns people use on this person.

I just find it odd that facial and body hair would be your deciding factor regarding pronoun usage. Especially because, facial and body hair, are within the natural parameters of women, although it's unusual. If he's putting on the persona of a bearded woman, that doesn't necessarily make his character less of a woman, in the same way that actual women with beards, aren't any less female because they have beards. It just seems inconsistent- to say his character doesn't get to be labeled as a woman because of a beard but naturally-born females do get to be women even if they have a beard. It's like, his character only gets to be a woman if he's conforming to some specific type of woman?

That strikes me as odd too. My rule of thumb is that it's not my job to tell other people what gender they are. However they identify themselves is fine with me. In this case, it's a self identified man (I think) playing a female character. So I would refer to the artist as a he and the character as a she.

My ftm friend who I met before his transition is a she when I talk about the things we did before, and a he now. That's because he used to self identify as a woman, not because of his biology.

 

[Alceste]

Because it often is just narcissism.

Conchita is a rather good singer, fyi. Like a bearded Celine Dion. Doesn't even sound like a man's falsetto, it just sounds like a woman's voice. I was rather impressed, although it's not really my kind of music.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Probably if someone stands out in some way we should pound them back into place, right?

Unique individuals are just narcissistic for not wanting to always express themselves as the rest of us usually do?

I do not see anything unique or individualistic about that unique individual anymore than I would see something unique and individualistic about Paris Hilton or Kim Kardassian. I see narcissism.

I do not get decadence, I do not see why some people value fiddling while the rest of the world burns.

 

[Sunstone]

Narcissistic and self-indulgent. Like most people who seek fame and celebrity. I don't get why people are attracted to such things.

Yes, but do you have any definition of "decadent" that is not actually childish and shallow?