New gender?

[Desert Snake]

Because it often is just narcissism.

Could be, but sometimes it isn't, so even you aknowledge it's only "often" narcissism.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Yes, but do you have any definition of "decadent" that is not actually childish and shallow?

I don't think defining decadent as narcissistic and self indulgent is childish, after all that is how Webster and others such as Freud define it. But your response may well fall into that category. Fiddling while the world burns is ultimate in being childish and shallow.

 

[Sunstone]

I don't think defining decadent as narcissistic and self indulgent is childish, after all that is how Webster and others such as Freud define it. But your response may well fall into that category. Fiddling while the world burns is ultimate in being childish and shallow.

A shallow and childish concept is a shallow and childish concept no matter who subscribes to it. Doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me that you're not the only one who refuses to wrap her head around something more profound and insightful than narcissism as a definition of decadence.

 

[Penumbra]

I do not see anything unique or individualistic about that unique individual anymore than I would see something unique and individualistic about Paris Hilton or Kim Kardassian. I see narcissism.

I do not get decadence, I do not see why some people value fiddling while the rest of the world burns.

Maybe part of the reason the world is burning, as you put it, is that people are so quick to view others negatively? This person said that he's using this character as a way to spread tolerance and acceptance, which is actually what I would view as putting out other people's fires.

I'm not saying this applies to you, or universally, but definitely in my offline life, I've found rather consistently that people generally interpret things through a filter of their own personality. Really positive people that don't generally think a lot of negative things, seem to have a harder time quickly assuming that other people are having negative intentions behind their actions, while really negative people that don't generally think a lot of positive things, seem to have a harder time quickly assuming that other people are having positive intentions behind their actions.

So for example, I have trouble thinking of anyone I know that seems very loving and content with their self, having a tendency to constantly quickly assign negative personality traits to people that they haven't met for doing morally neutral actions. And likewise, I have trouble of thinking of anyone that seems very unloving or bitter, having a tendency to constantly quickly assign positive personality traits to people that they haven't met for doing morally neutral actions. Obviously the sample size is limited but that's what I've observed.

It's like, their minds simply don't quickly jump to something so foreign to their own character, as their first assumption about why other people are doing things. Usually we draw from something we're more familiar with, unless or until someone's actions are very clear and/or they have a strong moral tone directly on them, like directly harming someone. So imo, a lot of what we see, is what what we project, meaning what we are. Some people seem to find beauty in a lot of places, while others seem to have bad luck and always find ugliness.

Anyway, what we have here is simply a man dressed up as a bearded woman to perform, and then specifically saying in the video that he does it to promote tolerance, being quickly called narcissistic by someone that doesn't know him. To me, that seems to be more of the type of mentality that tends to cause all these fires.

 

[Gehennaite]

I just find it odd that facial and body hair would be your deciding factor regarding pronoun usage.

You most likely find it odd because you're a female. A male understands his anatomy and the concept of masculinity far better than a female. It's actually a part of our identity as a species and is therefore more important to some of us than you think...

 

[Drolefille]

I know. I just couldn't find a better word. Wait, maybe it is a new species!

If I posted a picture of a biracial person and said "Ooh look a new species!"
Don't you think I'd get banned here?

I'm not nearly as ignorant as you believe. That was not the point anyway.

Yeah you are.

People want to turn themselves into freaks because they want attention and that's the best way they can find to get it, their choice. I don't have to approve it, I don't have to like it. If you want to call me a few names that's no problem.

And if people want to be ignorant and call drag queens or anyone who gender bends "freaks" like it's an insult, I don't have to like it either.
That's not name calling, btw, that's calling your ignorance what it is.

Personally, I like men who look like men, not men who need to disguise themselves as half women so people look at them.

And I like people who aren't judgmental or bigoted in their words. Your personal preferences, and mine, don't rule the world. I find gender ambiguity sexy as hell. Your lack is my gain.

I do not see anything unique or individualistic about that unique individual anymore than I would see something unique and individualistic about Paris Hilton or Kim Kardassian. I see narcissism.

I do not get decadence, I do not see why some people value fiddling while the rest of the world burns.

How decadent is it to be posting on the internet complaining ABOUT decadent people while the "world burns" and people starve in the streets and are bombed in their homes. I mean if we're going to play "first world problems Olympics" I don't think you really get to complain.

 

[Penumbra]

You most likely find it odd because you're a female.

A male understands his anatomy and the concept of masculinity far better than a female. It's actually a part of our identity as a species and is therefore more important to some of us than you think...

Try to address my actual argument next time.

 

[Drolefille]

You most likely find it odd because you're a female. A male understands his anatomy and the concept of masculinity far better than a female. It's actually a part of our identity as a species and is therefore more important to some of us than you think...

Please stop making things up.

If that's your standard I know a woman who is much more of a man than you probably could be as she naturally has quite strong jaw and facial hair, and is biologically female as can be.

Or you could just use the pronouns other people want to use.

Also it's weird you make this bizarre claim in a thread where the person in question is a male deliberately dressing as a woman with a beard. You don't think he understands masculinity as well as any other man can in your sexist world view?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

How decadent is it to be posting on the internet complaining ABOUT decadent people while the "world burns" and people starve in the streets and are bombed in their homes. I mean if we're going to play "first world problems Olympics" I don't think you really get to complain.

I think my activist credentials would probably put most people here to shame. Do you really want to play in that Olympics? I was a social worker...I have seen radical evil and the world burning. I do not live in the first world I live in a world were inequality and injustice is everywhere.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Maybe part of the reason the world is burning, as you put it, is that people are so quick to view others negatively?

The reason the world is burning is because people are selfish and are distracted by bull **** such as this person and Kim Kardassian instead of the things that really matter.

 

[kashmir]

I just thought of something, it is very plausible to suggest that hundreds of thousands of years from now, evolution will alter us all to be both man and woman due to today's sort of transsexual behaviors. (taking hormones and such)
In rare cases today, people have been born with both types of sexual organs and parts of both reproductive organs as well, but both are not actually working organs, they are not complete.
If it ever takes hold, we could very well have new genders someday.

Wish this video was not titled to give it away, but watch, its pretty good.
[youtube]hK6a065xLQ0[/youtube]

 

[Sunstone]

The reason the world is burning is because people are selfish and are distracted by bull **** such as this person and Kim Kardassian instead of the things that really matter.

I hear on good authority from Pat Robertson that drag queens cause hurricanes and earthquakes, too.

 

[Drolefille]

I think my activist credentials would probably put most people here to shame. Do you really want to play in that Olympics? I was a social worker...I have seen radical evil and the world burning. I do not live in the first world I live in a world were inequality and injustice is everywhere.

And so someone else who is an activist, simply for a different cause than you, is decadent and narcissistic because they deliberately get publicity as part of their activism. That doesn't make sense.

Also playing any sort of Oppression Olympics is foolish. The point is that there are many forms of suffering, not who has it worse. You're still sitting now on an internet that is unavailable to others. You're a US Citizen who gets to see movies and watch BSG and handle marketing for health fairs. If Kim Kardassian is the .0001% of decadence then you have to acknowledge that all of us are still in the 1% when it comes to the world we live in.

Comparing "activist credentials" is really only more evidence of privilege. I never claimed you didn't do anything about it, simply held up a mirror to the privilege that you and I share.

 

[Drolefille]

I just thought of something, it is very plausible to suggest that hundreds of thousands of years from now, evolution will alter us all to be both man and woman due to today's sort of transsexual behaviors. (taking hormones and such)
In rare cases today, people have been born with both types of sexual organs and parts of both reproductive organs as well, but both are not actually working organs, they are not complete.
If it ever takes hold, we could very well have new genders someday.

I don't... think.. that that's how that works....

Intersex people including those with both sets of sexual organs aren't anything new and haven't occurred only because of "taking hormones" or "Transsexual behaviors." That's like saying that the giraffe who stretches its neck to reach higher leaves has babies with longer necks. Lamarck got that one wrong.

 

[Penumbra]

The reason the world is burning is because people are selfish and are distracted by bull **** such as this person and Kim Kardassian instead of the things that really matter.

What makes this person like Kim Kardassian?

And what is it, in your opinion, that really matters?

Would you say you're currently distracted from what really matters because you're on a computer discussing this with me rather than doing other things, or does this discussion matter?

I think what really matters, is quite diverse. A social worker matters, because she helps people. An engineer matters, because she creates solutions that help solve problems. A performer matters, because it gives people happiness and art. And a bearded crossdressing singer matters, because in addition to performing, she is specifically trying to spread tolerance. At the very least, her act created this discussion, and probably countless more like it.

And a lot of what matters, is how people influence the feelings of others, since everyone encounters dozens or hundreds of people throughout their days and weeks. Some people have a tendency to tear down those around them, others have a tendency to be indifferent to those around them, while others have a tendency to build up those around them.

That, along with their profession, influences whether they're helping or hurting what matters. For example, an engineer that designs inexpensive bicycles to be sold in Africa (boosts a family's income dramatically), or helps make airplanes safer, or something like that, is doing some good work. An engineer that helps design missiles, depending on context, might not be doing good work. And then it comes down to how she spends her personal time, both in terms of volunteering and in terms of how she treats others every day. For example, let's say a singer is a really rude person, really mean to people around her. That would be deviating from what matters, in my view. Now let's say a singer is a really nice person to those around her, and brightens their day. That would be promoting what I think matters. Someone could even potentially do good work but then offset it by causing negativity outside of work. So it's a complete package sort of thing.

I think a lot of people have rather limited vision with these sorts of things, that only what they do matters, and anything outside of that, doesn't matter.

 

[Debater Slayer]

You most likely find it odd because you're a female. A male understands his anatomy and the concept of masculinity far better than a female. It's actually a part of our identity as a species and is therefore more important to some of us than you think...

I'm a male, and I find it odd that facial and body hair would be your main deciding factor regarding pronoun usage. More specifically, I think it's odd because physical characteristics don't necessarily dictate gender identity, and it seems to me that it's very black-and-white thinking to consider physical characteristics the main arbitrator of someone's gender.

I also find the concept of "masculinity" to be, more often than not, an excuse to propagate misogyny, heteronormativity, and rigid gender roles. So no, I don't consider that concept to be a part of my identity in any meaningful way, at least not in the conventional sense.

 

[Alceste]

You most likely find it odd because you're a female. A male understands his anatomy and the concept of masculinity far better than a female. It's actually a part of our identity as a species and is therefore more important to some of us than you think...

Er... Is this a joke?

 

[Gehennaite]

Try to address my actual argument next time.

I already invalidated your argument. If you have a penis and a beard, you're a "he". Stop dismissing the beard as synonymous with masculine identity.

Beards on biological females are abnormal. They're attributed to disorders - genetic and hormonal. 99.9% of biological females cannot grow beards, so stop pretending it is gender-normative and therefore invalidates my argument.

Both facial & vellus hair are accepted as masculine traits because it is gender-normative for men to have facial & vellus hair.

(1) Please stop making things up.

If that's your standard (2) I know a woman who is much more of a man than you probably could be as she naturally has quite strong jaw and facial hair, and is biologically female as can be.

(3) Or you could just use the pronouns other people want to use.

(4) Also it's weird you make this bizarre claim in a thread where the person in question is a male deliberately dressing as a woman with a beard. (5) You don't think he understands masculinity as well as any other man can in your (6) sexist world view?

(1) What did I make up?

(2) It's a good thing you said "probably" since it is quite obvious you're wrong. Mother nature gave me all those things you listed AND a penis. I think it's obvious who is the man here...

(3) I already do that.

(4) What "bizarre claim" am I making?

(5) When did I ever question this person's understanding of masculinity? I was addressing Penumbra's understanding of masculinity.

(6) Explain to me how my worldview is sexist.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I just thought of something, it is very plausible to suggest that hundreds of thousands of years from now, evolution will alter us all to be both man and woman due to today's sort of transsexual behaviors. (taking hormones and such)

I don't see how cross-sex hormonal therapy could possibly have an effect on human evolution.

 

[Sunstone]

Er... Is this a joke?

In one sense or the other, yes.