No to Fake Meat

[We Never Know]

In smaller black letters against a red background, like an afterthought. I know how advertising works. I've worked at supermarket for years, even. There's no reason to keep it in the meat section, either. Especially when there's already a place where they keep the other refrigerated vegan stuff. They're doing it because they hope meat eaters will buy it.

Market strategies employ many methods people don't think about

Example...

Fruity pebbles, foot loops, etc are at kid level so kids are able to see them and will say I want some fruity pebbles mom.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Market strategies employ many methods people don't think about

Example...

Fruity pebbles, foot loops, etc are at kid level so kids are able to see them and will say I want some fruity pebbles mom.

Yes, and have the better stuff with granola or whatever higher up on the shelf. Like I said, I worked in a supermarket, I know how it works. Lol

 

[Ignatius A]

Sure

It's just too bad you aren't capable of showing where I'm wrong.

 

[The Hammer]

It's just too bad you aren't capable of showing where I'm wrong.

Whatever


You really seem to be itching for an argument/debate.

 

[Yerda]

Maybe you'll express some integrity, why do we need lab grown meat if we have cows?

Get over yourself

 

[InChrist]

You know nothing about it. How would you know whether it is healthy or not. You are not reacting rationally. Just as you were terribly wrong about plant based meat substitutes. Yes, there is a lot of processing that goes on. What makes you think that natural processing is better? Natural meats are rather high in cholesterol and that is not healthy for you. And I can guarantee you that there are no "fake proteins" in plant based meat substitutes. They have proteins, but they are very real ones.

Plant based meat substitutes can be a healthy transition food for those that want to change to vegetarian diet. I would not recommend them for every meal, but then I do not eat hamburgers for every meal either.

I know enough about it to know I will choose real food over lab made food. Certainly, the meat I get from a local farmer which is grass fed and processed at the local butcher is far less processed than meat grown from cells in a lab. Also, there’s a difference in types of cholesterol; some unhealthy, some healthy. Grass fed meats have the beneficial cholesterol, as well as being high in omega-3.

“It is unlikely these products will be any healthier or safer to eat. These ultraprocessed foods are made from refined ingredients which means that they lack many of the nutrients found in traditional foods. Nutrients and fortifiers will need to be added as separate ingredients and cannot be absorbed as effectively as they would from whole foods, and can cause harmful interference with other nutrients. As a result our bodies may derive less health benefits from them and therefore they should not be part of a nutritious and environmentally friendly diet and should be classified as Junk Food.

According to a report by the FAO, the complex process of cell-culturing also leaves many opportunities for contamination from toxic heavy metals, organic pollutants, cleaning products, toxic bacteria, additives and preservatives, left-over antibiotics, growth hormones or other chemical or material contaminates. The presence of any of these contaminants, whether individual or in combination, would pose serious food safety risks to consumers.”

How Green is Lab-Meat?

Synthetic foods are the next generation of ultra-processed foods made through the hyper-processing of industrially produced crops, a combination of processed and artificial ingredients and complete…

navdanyainternational.org

 

[Subduction Zone]

I know enough about it to know I will choose real food over lab made food. Certainly, the meat I get from a local farmer which is grass fed and processed at the local butcher is far less processed than meat grown from cells in a lab. Also, there’s a difference in types of cholesterol; some unhealthy, some healthy. Grass fed meats have the beneficial cholesterol, as well as being high in omega-3.

“It is unlikely these products will be any healthier or safer to eat. These ultraprocessed foods are made from refined ingredients which means that they lack many of the nutrients found in traditional foods. Nutrients and fortifiers will need to be added as separate ingredients and cannot be absorbed as effectively as they would from whole foods, and can cause harmful interference with other nutrients. As a result our bodies may derive less health benefits from them and therefore they should not be part of a nutritious and environmentally friendly diet and should be classified as Junk Food.

According to a report by the FAO, the complex process of cell-culturing also leaves many opportunities for contamination from toxic heavy metals, organic pollutants, cleaning products, toxic bacteria, additives and preservatives, left-over antibiotics, growth hormones or other chemical or material contaminates. The presence of any of these contaminants, whether individual or in combination, would pose serious food safety risks to consumers.”

How Green is Lab-Meat?

Synthetic foods are the next generation of ultra-processed foods made through the hyper-processing of industrially produced crops, a combination of processed and artificial ingredients and complete…

navdanyainternational.org

You are confused as usual. What that article is attacking not the meat that DeSantis banned. That article is attacking "beyond meat".

And you really need a link when you do that.

Can you own up to your error?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Im not sure why you're so angry. I must say though I do appreciate the effort you put into trying to sound snarky.

I.will try again when you say "please".

Well, would you please consider that all humans don't know everything and in effect can learn something new. And that learning something new can contradict something old. I.e. that is Jean Piaget.

So it might be that humans outside the USA can understand what is going on in the USA.

 

[Ignatius A]

Whatever


You really seem to be itching for an argument/debate.

No I would like to have you tell where I was wrong in what I said, but as of this moment you have stated even one thing I'm wrong about.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Now, why do we need lab grown meat if we have cows.

Do you realise how much time, labour, resources and land go into cattle rearing? Imagine if we could practically eliminate all of that and simply grow meat with only a fraction of all of those things. (At least, that's the ideal - not necessarily as simple as that in execution.)

Why do we need "plant based" meat if we have cows?

Because lots of people don't want to (or can't) eat animal products for a variety of reasons, but still like the taste or texture of meat.

Why do we need "vegan" cheese if we have cows?

Because some people are vegan and/or lactose intolerant, but still like the taste or texture of cheese.

These questions are really weird. Are you against the very concept of their being alternative equivalents to things in general?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

How many will be able to afford lab grown meats?

"A 2021 analysis estimated that lab-grown meat will cost US$17 to $23 per pound to produce, and that does not include grocery store markups. In comparison, conventionally grown ground beef typically costs a little under $5 per pound"

Lab-Grown Meat Techniques Aren't New, but the Scale Required Will Be

Scientists have been culturing animal cells in artificial environments since the 1950s.

www.foodmanufacturing.com

From the same article (emphasis mine):

"Companies are likely paying attention and adapting to the public's response. To put things in perspective, the first lab-grown burger cost $330,000 to create in 2013. The price has fallen to just under $10 per burger today, which is remarkable progress in just a decade."

In other words, thanks to research and advancement, the price of producing lab grown meet has fallen to ONE THIRTY-THOUSANDTH of it's cost in less than 8 YEARS. While the meat currently is still prohibitively expensive for your average consumer, the aim of the science is to get it down to a scale where it is affordable. I think this will still take some time, but to outright prohibit the sale of the meat clearly isn't going to make that any better. If companies cannot profit from the development of lab-grown meat because it's illegal to sell, what is their motivation behind continuing research that will make it more affordable?

 

[Ignatius A]

Do you realise how much time, labour, resources and land go into cattle rearing? Imagine if we could practically eliminate all of that and simply grow meat with only a fraction of all of those things. (At least, that's the ideal - not necessarily as simple as that in execution.)


Because lots of people don't want to (or can't) eat animal products for a variety of reasons, but still like the taste or texture of meat.


Because some people are vegan and/or lactose intolerant, but still like the taste or texture of cheese.

These questions are really weird. Are you against the very concept of their being alternative equivalents to things in general?

What makes them "really weird"? We shouldn't ask questions?

No I have no problems with alternatives. But places like California will in 2035 take away from consumers the alternative of purchasing a new gas powered vehicle. Are you ok with that?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

What makes them "really weird"?

Because you genuinely don't seem to understand that not everyone can or wants to eat meat or cheese. Is this really a new idea to you? If it genuinely is, you must lead and incredibly sheltered and insular life.

We shouldn't ask questions?

Did I say you shouldn't, or did I just say your questions were weird?

It's not like I didn't answer them. At least I respected them that much.

No I have no problems with alternatives. But places like California will in 2035 take away from consumers the alternative of purchasing a new gas powered vehicle. Are you ok with that?

What on earth does that have to do with lab grown meat? I have no idea about Californian legislature in the year 2035.

This thread is about lab-grown meat.

 

[Ignatius A]

From the same article (emphasis mine):

"Companies are likely paying attention and adapting to the public's response. To put things in perspective, the first lab-grown burger cost $330,000 to create in 2013. The price has fallen to just under $10 per burger today, which is remarkable progress in just a decade."

In other words, thanks to research and advancement, the price of producing lab grown meet has fallen to ONE THIRTY-THOUSANDTH of it's cost in less than 8 YEARS. While the meat currently is still prohibitively expensive for your average consumer, the aim of the science is to get it down to a scale where it is affordable. I think this will still take some time, but to outright prohibit the sale of the meat clearly isn't going to make that any better. If companies cannot profit from the development of lab-grown meat because it's illegal to sell, what is their motivation behind continuing research that will make it more affordable?

Again why do this at all? We already have a way to get meat and clearly it's already less expensive. This whole thing is rooted in the same ideology as EVs. Save the planet. What's the biggest threat to the planet?

 

[We Never Know]

From the same article (emphasis mine):

"Companies are likely paying attention and adapting to the public's response. To put things in perspective, the first lab-grown burger cost $330,000 to create in 2013. The price has fallen to just under $10 per burger today, which is remarkable progress in just a decade."

In other words, thanks to research and advancement, the price of producing lab grown meet has fallen to ONE THIRTY-THOUSANDTH of it's cost in less than 8 YEARS. While the meat currently is still prohibitively expensive for your average consumer, the aim of the science is to get it down to a scale where it is affordable. I think this will still take some time, but to outright prohibit the sale of the meat clearly isn't going to make that any better. If companies cannot profit from the development of lab-grown meat because it's illegal to sell, what is their motivation behind continuing research that will make it more affordable?

"The price has fallen to just under $10 per burger"

Yes I read that. And if that burger is a 1/4 pound, that's $40 per pound. If its a 1/2 pound, its $20 per pound.
Which is on par with my post

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Again why do this at all?

I've already answered that question. Lab grown meat could potentially use significantly less labour, time and resources to produce.

Are you against the idea of technology improving processes?

"Why do we need tele-porters when we already have cars?"
"Why do we need cars when we already have horses?"
"Why do we need horses when we already have feet?"
"Why do we need feet when we can just stay in our caves?"

We already have a way to get meat and clearly it's already less expensive.

So what if lab-grown meat became less expensive, and took less labour, less resources and less time to produce? Would you be in favour of it then?

This whole thing is rooted in the same ideology as EVs. Save the planet. What's the biggest threat to the planet?

You seriously see no benefit whatsoever in producing meat faster, easier, less wastefully and (potentially) cheaper?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

"The price has fallen to just under $10 per burger"

Yes I read that. And if that burger is a 1/4 pound, that's $40 per pound. If its a 1/2 pound, its $20 per pound.
Which is on par with my post

The point is that it became SIGNIFICANTLY LESS EXPENSIVE over time, and so if we follow that projection it makes sense that it will eventually possibly become cheap enough to rival conventionally farmed meat, if not even cheaper. That's the point. In eight years the cost was reduced TO ONE THIRTY-THOUSANDS of its cost. Do you not think that's significant? It's fair to say that it's significantly expensive to the average consumer currently, but with development it could potentially become significantly cheaper. Besides which, something being prohibitively expensive is hardly an argument in favour of banning the sale of it, especially if that ban would significantly negatively impact the possibility of further research into that thing rendering it actually affordable.

 

[We Never Know]

The point is that it became SIGNIFICANTLY LESS EXPENSIVE over time, and so if we follow that projection it makes sense that it will eventually possibly become cheap enough to rival conventionally farmed meat, if not even cheaper. That's the point. In eight years the cost was reduced TO ONE THIRTY-THOUSANDS of its cost. Do you not think that's significant?

Cattle prices have been at an all time high for a bit now. Store bought Hamburger average is $4 per pound. $1 per burger. That's includes all the market markups.

Its cheaper when you have it butchered.

I don't see it getting cheaper than conventional meat.
When and if it ever does, let me know... I still won't eat it.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Cattle prices have been at an all time high for a bit now. Store bought Hamburger average is $4 per pound. $1 per burger. That's includes all the market markups.

Its cheaper when you have it butchered.

I don't see it getting cheaper than conventional meat.

Despite the fact that its production cost dropped to ONE THIRTY-THOUSANDTH of its cost less than 10 years ago? You don't see its cost becoming lower as a possibility, even though that's clearly happening? Coupled with the fact that it is also better for the environment, takes less labour and uses less resources?

Do you believe it's reasonable to ban the sale of something just because it is currently prohibitively expensive to the average consumer? Why not let consumers make up their mind, and let the research continue to drive down the price through new technology?

When and if it ever does, let me know... I still won't eat it.

Why not? What's your actual objection?

 

[The Hammer]

No I would like to have you tell where I was wrong in what I said.

Well, we can't always get what we want. Let it go.