Audie
Veteran Member
Nah, you've already demonstrated youve no idea what you're talking about.
I will leave you to the subducted one. He likes endlessly
arguing with the clueless.
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Noah's Ark
- Thread starter We Never Know
- Start date
I will leave you to the subducted one. He likes endlessly
arguing with the clueless.
“Zero evidence…”
www.britannica.com
en.wikipedia.org
www.nature.com
www.antarcticglaciers.org
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Naaaaaaah “no evidence” “didn’t happen”
The scientific community are conspiring against you
Younger Dryas | Definition, Causes, & Termination | Britannica
Younger Dryas, cool period between roughly 12,900 and 11,600 years ago that disrupted the prevailing warming trend in the Northern Hemisphere at the end of the Pleistocene. During this period, parts of Europe and North America returned to ice age conditions; other parts of the Northern...
Younger Dryas - Wikipedia
Gradual onset and recovery of the Younger Dryas abrupt climate event in the tropics - Nature Communications
The Younger Dryas cooling event has been identified in ice records in the Northern Hemisphere, but the effects of this cold snap on the tropics are poorly known. Here, the authors present a speleothem record and model simulations, showing that tropical hydroclimate recovered slower than...
The Younger Dryas Glacial Map - AntarcticGlaciers.org
The Younger Dryas Glacial Map is an interactive map for all the glacial landforms dating to the Younger Dryas (Loch Lomond Stadial) glaciation of Britain
www.antarcticglaciers.org
Atmospheric circulation over Europe during the Younger Dryas - PMC
Reconstructed palaeoprecipitation reveals a persistent SCAND-like circulation and southerly storm track during the Younger Dryas.
Naaaaaaah “no evidence” “didn’t happen”
The scientific community are conspiring against you
So
In terms of an event that occurred, 12,000 - 10,000 years ago
Explain to me the process when deciding how to present the precision of your measurement
Why would you pick for example (2 d.p.) over (4 d.p.)?
You’ve demonstrated nothing so far, other than some personal view forcing you to not look at things objectively
explain to me where the 4 decimal place precision is a requirement?
In terms of an event that occurred, 12,000 - 10,000 years ago
Explain to me the process when deciding how to present the precision of your measurement
Why would you pick for example (2 d.p.) over (4 d.p.)?
You’ve demonstrated nothing so far, other than some personal view forcing you to not look at things objectively
That’s the conversion based on their estimation, BASED on the EVIDENCE
IF you want to be exact, considering we don’t know what the decimal precision is, we would round it and say 122m
The idea of a “4 decimal” precision being some requirement is just ridiculous
I would like to know what you mean by the “spirit” of all animals
How does that work in your worldview/religious views?
Ignore Audie, they’re just antagonistic and rigid
The other dude seems like a good person who just has different beliefs to you
I’d gladly speak to them instead
Because I just think you’re either a troll, looking to make excuses or are disingenuous
You’re clearly intelligent but have highly inflated your ego
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
That is incorrect. You do not seem to understand what "~" means.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
You do not understand the concept of evidence.“Zero evidence…”
Younger Dryas | Definition, Causes, & Termination | Britannica
Younger Dryas, cool period between roughly 12,900 and 11,600 years ago that disrupted the prevailing warming trend in the Northern Hemisphere at the end of the Pleistocene. During this period, parts of Europe and North America returned to ice age conditions; other parts of the Northern...
Younger Dryas - Wikipedia
Gradual onset and recovery of the Younger Dryas abrupt climate event in the tropics - Nature Communications
The Younger Dryas cooling event has been identified in ice records in the Northern Hemisphere, but the effects of this cold snap on the tropics are poorly known. Here, the authors present a speleothem record and model simulations, showing that tropical hydroclimate recovered slower than...
The Younger Dryas Glacial Map - AntarcticGlaciers.org
The Younger Dryas Glacial Map is an interactive map for all the glacial landforms dating to the Younger Dryas (Loch Lomond Stadial) glaciation of Britain
Atmospheric circulation over Europe during the Younger Dryas - PMC
Reconstructed palaeoprecipitation reveals a persistent SCAND-like circulation and southerly storm track during the Younger Dryas.
Naaaaaaah “no evidence” “didn’t happen”
The scientific community are conspiring against you
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Two points, the events that you cited have far slower rates of sea level rise than would be necessary for it to be a "flood". A family having to move back a ways from the seas is not a flood. And since people do not tend to put their houses right at sea level they might have had to do so only once in their lifetime as the seas slowly encroached on it over the years.
And no, I am not redefining a flood. They myth says that the waters receded. The sea level rise from the end of the last major glaciation has never receded. They will not recede until we enter the next phase of glaciation in our current ice age, assuming that our actions have not taken us permanently out of the ice age.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
At that time, primitive people were not scientific, but they were clever. The implications of belief in an absolutely literally infinite creator are profound. Even though they did not have the tools of mathematics, and axiomatic set-theory, classical logic, they were still very smart. Intuitive. They needed to be in order to survive and thrive lacking what would later become modern conveniences which so many of us take for granted.
The technique that the primitive Jewish philosophers, theologians, prophets, employed for understanding their world is known today as "black-boxing" - LINK . It's agnostic. Trend analysis. Inputs >>> [Black-box] >>> Outputs. The inputs and the outputs are observable, but, they did not know, nor did they care about knowing, what what happening in the black-box ( agnosticism ). Not only were they, the primitive prophet, pragmatic, focusing more on the destination rather than the journeying, their devotion to this idea of an absolutely literally infinite source for all of reality encouraged them to think and problem solve in this manner. The ones who had refined this technique and could make use of it correctly and consistently were given the title of "seer" or "prophet" or "wise".
Judaism constructs a model for understanding ( not knowing ) how reality is being created at every moment. But. It cannot be over stated. This is a model. A construct. A metaphor. Facts about reality from this grand a scale cannot be known in the way that a scientist would pursue them. Knowledge seeking, in this context, is a fool's errand.
This Jewish model for understanding ( not knowing ) is included in our written Torah and our Talmud if they are read in the original language while the individual is adopting the black-box model of agnostic trend analysis. The end result is a "flowing" of divine vitality from an unknowable source. This flowing is on-going. If it ceases for even 1 moment, the entire construct collapses back into the source. Implosion. This flowing cascades and branches, like a river flowing from the top of a mountain covered with lots of snow. The river spits and divides as it makes contact with obstacles on the way towards the bottom of the mountain. Each individual physical, material, "thing" is the product of this flowing of divine vitality.
Try to picture it in your mind? The mountain? The glacier on top? The snow melting? Seeping? Collecting? in an underground aquifer? Then rising? A spring? A river? Flowing? Branching? Down the mountain? Got the mental image? It's like a taxonomy chart, right? Here's a couple of simple examples:
This one is a top-down version. It is shaped like a mountain.
This one is a bottom-up version. It's shaped like a tree.
Perhaps you're already familiar with the analogy of a tree for this purpose. But few consider it as a mountain. Even fewer consider it as a funnel, like this.
Mountain? Tree? Funnel? The ancient Jewish theologians, philosophers, prophets, understood reality as the confluence of all three of these constructs simultaneously. Each and every thing that exists, here and now, physically can be represented, metaphor, as the the intersections where the flow is branching. They didn't know how this was occurring. And they didn't care. They "black-boxed" it. All they knew was the model worked. It was practical. It is useful because the world, everything in it, and all past present and future events are in order in the Jewish philosopher's mind. The end result? It's good. Very good. Inner peace. Peace with your neighbors. Peace between husband and wife. Happy children, happy familes. Coping with tragedy when it occurs and the confidence to rise to any challenge great or small. Among other things.
Ruach-Chayim, literally "Wind of life".
What is it? Well. If there is one and only one source, then, this is a creation. It is being created just like any other "thing". It is a upper-level creation. In this case, it's best to use the mountain analogy. Imagine the flowing water down the mountain before it is branching. Then consider each of the individual branches. Got it? The flow at the top INCLUDES the flow at the bottom. The top is the source for all the branching below it. Because of this, all the essential building blocks for the lower branching are contained in the upper source. Therefore:
If I want to reconstruct the lower branches, I don't need to collect a sample from each and every branch. I only need to collect a sample from the upper source which contains the essence of all the branching combined.
Primitive people in that region at that time categorized life into 4 large very general branchings which are flowing from one and only one source.
- Mineral
- Vegetable
- Animal
- Human
Judaism, in a nutshell, is about connection. Understanding how each and everything is connected and putting those connections and their natural consequences into an orderly framework in the mind. We Jews know that we cannot know how this reality is being created ( agnosticism ) here-and-now, but, we can understand the natural consequences of harmonious sympathetic partnerships. We call this in Hebrew "T'vunah" It is a conjugation of the word "Binah" which roughly and is frequently translated as "understanding". T'vunah is a deep investigation which surrounds the content but does not penetrate. We understand that everything is connected. Not only is it practical on a day to day basis to understand these connections, but we also take great pleasure and find tremendous personal satisfaction from putting the puzzle together and seeing the big picture once all the bits and pieces are in order in their proper place.
If everything is connected, then, how are the 4 categories of life connected? The Jewish philosophers came up with words for these connections. They came up with words for the flowing. They came up with words for the intersections, and the branchings. And all of those words fall into one large category which in English is called "Spirit". All the minerals have a spirit which is at its root. This spirit contains all the corresponding branchings that are flowing from it. And these branchings eventually divide many many many nearly infinite times creating all the different minerals in all their various forms. It's the same for all the plants. There is a "spirit" which is at the root of all plants. This spirit is flowing, always and forever, branching many many nearly infinite times, creating all plants. The same is true for animals. The same is true for humans.
Judaism, though, does not perceive these different "spirits" in the way which the greeks or egyptians perceived them. It's similar, but inverted. In judaism, these "spirits" are much more like gravity and electricity. They are like wind. The egyptians viewed "spirits" in an animal form. The greeks imagined "spirits" in human form. Jews said, "No, it's like the wind." That's "black-boxing". It's agnostic. There is no form to these "spirits" and they are not in conflict. They are orderly and this is because there is one and only one divine-will, there are no other divine-wills. We Jews looked at the other religions at that time, who were making offerings to idols, and we would say: "They are shouting into the wind."
So. In the story of Noah, Noah is collecting the Ruach-Chayim. That is a specific general "spirit" which includes all animals. The Ruach-Chayim is what supplies the animals with the capability to breath and think. It is the "wind-of-lifes" "Lifes" Plural. The Jewish philosophers contrasted this with the "Nefesh-Chayim" which is the beating of the heart in the circulatory system. The "Ruach-Chayim" is the breathing of the lungs and the thinking of the mind.
If you are a student of scripture, in the book most refer to as Leviticus, there is a famous verse regarding blood and soul ( Dahm and Nefesh, in Hebrew ). The punchline of this verse in context of the entire book, is, the nefesh-chayim, which is in the blood, goes into the earth at the end of the mortal, corporeal life. But there is more to the animal's life than just that aspect which is in the Dahm ( the blood ). There is also the Ruach-Chayim, which is like the wind. And just like the wind, it can be harnessed, but never fully contained. It just keeps going forever and ever and always.
Noah, in the story, collects this Ruach-Chayim, because it contains the essential qualities for all life of all animals ( and humans too ). He brings them onto the metaphorcial ark which he built in his heart. Then he carries it away and on completion of his journeying, he makes an offering releasing the entire collection where it will eventually land back on earth. And that is why evil was not conquered and eliminated at this point in the story.
Noah made a mistake, in spite of being a perfect Tzaddik in his generation ( See the Hebrew in Genesis 6:9 - LINK ). The Rabbis, sages, of the Talmud knew this. Noah had an opportunity to correct the faults of the generation of the flood prior to collecting them all in the metaphorical ark which he was building in his own heart. But he didn't do it.
And that is the story of the great flood in the Torah.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
^^ it's like watching a one trick pony ^^
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
And you still seem to resent the debates that you lost to me. The fact is that he cannot make a rational argument. Did you check out any of his sources in his recent post where he just listed a bunch of article? I did. They did not support his claim.
When an argument is so bad that it can be refuted by one single observation then why bring up anything else?
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
... to enjoy watching you do the same somersault over and over and over again. It's fun because, it's all you do, and you do it so well. Bravo.
But we know they’re myths and not literal
And yes people tend to build near rivers, lakes and coastlines
Just about every archaeological dig ever of ancient villages or settlement is near water
Just about every modern city began as some coastal or river settlement
You’re definition of flood doesn’t match the definition of flood
The issue here is that you acknowledge it’s a myth but take it too literal
The water in reality receded back INTO the ocean, it’s why the coastlines are how they are today
I don’t know how simplify this any more
There was an ice age
Ocean depth go down
More land mass is traversable
Big rock hit Earth
Temperature plunged, more ice, ocean depth go down
1,000 years later, planet heat up
Ice melt, ocean depth go up
Less land traversable because it’s flooded now
Flooded Water finds way into oceans
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Tilda
To denote approximately
Again the standard in just about ALL physics and Mathematics
Especially when typing Syntax for something LaTEX which is what the industry standard is when writing scientific literature
I’m preeeeeety certain I know what “~” means
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Very interesting read
I’ll read it a couple more times to try and understand some of these ideas and views and beliefs
Thank you very much for taking the time to share that
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
You're very welcome Christos. It was fun to write.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Not looking? No.
I've been here for a long time. Audie is hurting. She's doing what she needs to do. Sub simply likes to argue. It makes him feel alive. Audie, if I recall has academic credentials in theology. Sub was a Christian, I think a fundamentalist, prior to deconstructing from Christianity. Both have looked. That's not the issue.
I love your first paragraph, that’s a great way of putting it.
I haven’t heard of Black Boxing, I’ll have to look at that.
Your third and fourth paragraph reminds me of causal agents and cause and effect which also makes me think of hermeticism, this long chain that goes back to some initial condition
So when you look at taxonomy your looking to it in the same way I would, a sort of branching from some initial moment
Which of course you can do with planets, stars, primordial matter, the fundamental forces etc
You can treat it the same way
I really really enjoyed reading the rest of this as it was a fantastic insight into Jewish beliefs and views and ideas
Again thank you