Noah's Ark

[Valjean]

The legend has it that it rained for a month and the entire globe was submerged.

 

[dybmh]

If you believe/accept the story of Noah's ark, how did Noah get from Mesopotamia(modern Iraq) to the Arctic to get polar bears for example?

Have you gotten any good answers yet?

 

[We Never Know]

Have you gotten any good answers yet?

Good? Answers yes

1. It never happened
2. God instructed the animals to go to Noah

 

[dybmh]

Good?

Here's what I consider a good answer.

Gen 7:15

וַיָּבֹ֥אוּ אֶל־נֹ֖חַ אֶל־הַתֵּבָ֑ה שְׁנַ֤יִם שְׁנַ֨יִם֙ מִכָּל־הַבָּשָׂ֔ר אֲשֶׁר־בּ֖וֹ ר֥וּחַ חַיִּֽים

Asher-bo ruach chayim = includes all animals of every sort. In Judaism everything is connected. That means gathering top-level samples of animals on the taxonomy chart would include the "spirit" of all the other animals ( ר֥וּחַ חַיִּֽים ) below them in the taxonomy chart, so to speak.

I can elaborate if there's interest.

 

[christos]

The claim that sea level rose 400 ft
in a hundred years is a response to
" floods don't shift layers of soil", and,
your "400 in 100" is confirmed in that gish?

Yes the ~400ft 121.92m is in the data

 

[christos]

You ask "What about" something that didn't happen?

Except there’s a mountain of evidence to suggest it did happen

 

[christos]

The highest estimate that I found was 20 cm in a year, and I may have misread that article. Wikipedia puts it at four to six cm years maximum. Even with my very high estimate that would be 20 meters in 100 years. That would not qualify as a flood.

Still your redefining flood to mean something it doesn’t

 

[christos]

"121.96 meters" is just too vague. I need four
decimal places

No reputable source of data about sea level
variation over the past 20K years gives anything
resembling the claims our hero of the flood asserts.

You take it on if it suits you. I'm not playing dueling websites with anyone who can't tell pop sci w agenda
from something sensible like usgs, noah etc.

You can’t just arbitrarily use “four decimals” if your measuring tools do not have that level of accuracy

And that’s really weird rebuttal to not look at data

The data I gave you isn’t an agenda, they don’t link it to Noah, it’s called science, it’s data…

I’m merely positing a question based on verifiable evidence

You wanted the evidence and data, I gave it to you, you go nope, because reasons

 

[Tomef]

but writing is ancient as speech.

No, that’s way off. Cuneiform is the first form of writing there is any evidence for, and that’s from around 5,000 years ago. Older marks on rock and cave paintings, and later counting tokens, are not written language. The apparatus for human speech appears in the fossil records 10 x earlier in our history, so writing is pretty recent in historical terms.

 

[christos]

No, that’s way off. Cuneiform is the first form of writing there is any evidence for, and that’s from around 5,000 years ago. Older marks on rock and cave paintings, and later counting tokens, are not written language. The apparatus for human speech appears in the fossil records 10 x earlier in our history, so writing is pretty recent in historical terms.

That’s my belief also based on the evidence

But I gave him the possibility that MAYBE they MAY have wrote on skins and those skins decayed…. But I’m very skeptical of that idea

For me the earliest, sophisticated writings, I think are the Sumerian writing

Which is why when I myself speak of the origins of the bible… I go back to Sumerians as that’s about as far as we can reliably go


BUT the fascinating thing is, that the Sumerians in their own cuneiform state explicitly, “we got these stories from a previous civilisation, that is now extinct”

Suggesting strongly that the story of Genesis and Adam and Eve goes further back still
How far back, no one knows

 

[christos]

The legend has it that it rained for a month and the entire globe was submerged.

I’m personally very much against the idea of the ENTIRE globe being submerged as there’s literally zero evidence to suggest this flood as described by the bible happened

Now I do believe in natural cataclysm and GLOBAL effects

Such as the impact that wiped out the dinosaurs

The Younger Dryas Impact

Glacial melt and ice ages

These are all global phenomena
So I’m not against the idea of a worldwide effect or cataclysm if there’s evidence to support it

 

[Audie]

Here's what I consider a good answer.

Gen 7:15

וַיָּבֹ֥אוּ אֶל־נֹ֖חַ אֶל־הַתֵּבָ֑ה שְׁנַ֤יִם שְׁנַ֨יִם֙ מִכָּל־הַבָּשָׂ֔ר אֲשֶׁר־בּ֖וֹ ר֥וּחַ חַיִּֽים

Asher-bo ruach chayim = includes all animals of every sort. In Judaism everything is connected. That means gathering top-level samples of animals on the taxonomy chart would include the "spirit" of all the other animals ( ר֥וּחַ חַיִּֽים ) below them in the taxonomy chart, so to speak.

I can elaborate if there's interest.

Plz dont

 

[dybmh]

Plz dont

It hurts your brain, doesn't it?

 

[Audie]

Yes the ~400ft 121.92m is in the data

The "one hundred years" isn't.

And calculations to .02M is patently
absurd, as I somehow failed to make clear make to you

 

[Audie]

Except there’s a mountain of evidence to suggest it did happen

"Suggestions" are for the suggestible.

Data for your 121.92 meter change in
50 yrs, 100 or 1000 does not exist.

No known global or local event can be meaningfully
connected to the noahs ark story- which goes ,
like you into very fine detail about events that never occurred,

 

[Audie]

You can’t just arbitrarily use “four decimals” if your measuring tools do not have that level of accuracy

And that’s really weird rebuttal to not look at data

The data I gave you isn’t an agenda, they don’t link it to Noah, it’s called science, it’s data…

I’m merely positing a question based on verifiable evidence

You wanted the evidence and data, I gave it to you, you go nope, because reasons

You offer me a lesson on precision v accuracy?

I've been since Uni days as a geology major well
acquainted with data re sea level / glacier melt.
I don't need to look at your " dara".

I did tho randomly pick one to look at. the " human origins" one written on a middle school level for the noon.

Statements like that " originally thought glacial melt took tens of thousands of years" , and the wild overgeneralization
from the Ice dam flooding in America's northwest failed to impres me as a source of agenda free data.

You cannot show data for your claims.
Simple.

Try a reputable source and highlight where it backs
your claims. You will fail.

 

[christos]

Here's what I consider a good answer.

Gen 7:15

וַיָּבֹ֥אוּ אֶל־נֹ֖חַ אֶל־הַתֵּבָ֑ה שְׁנַ֤יִם שְׁנַ֨יִם֙ מִכָּל־הַבָּשָׂ֔ר אֲשֶׁר־בּ֖וֹ ר֥וּחַ חַיִּֽים

Asher-bo ruach chayim = includes all animals of every sort. In Judaism everything is connected. That means gathering top-level samples of animals on the taxonomy chart would include the "spirit" of all the other animals ( ר֥וּחַ חַיִּֽים ) below them in the taxonomy chart, so to speak.

I can elaborate if there's interest.

Please do

I’m interested in your views

 

[christos]

You offer me a lesson on precision v accuracy?

I've been since Uni days as a geology major well
acquainted with data re sea level / glacier melt.
I don't need to look at your " dara".

I did tho randomly pick one to look at. the " human origins" one written on a middle school level for the noon.

Statements like that " originally thought glacial melt took tens of thousands of years" , and the wild overgeneralization
from the Ice dam flooding in America's northwest failed to impres me as a source of agenda free data.

You cannot show data for your claims.
Simple.

Try a reputable source and highlight where it backs
your claims. You will fail.

And I’ve been to uni as a mathematician and physicist, specialised in data analysis

Stating “I won’t look at your data, as it’s not 4 decimal places of accuracy” is just disingenuous and avoiding the data I present to you

IF you were a geology major then you would appreciate the fact that the links I gave you INCLUDE the geological evidence ASWELL as a topological analysis of the impact site DISCOVERED by NASA

You can trace the YDP carbon layer across the entire northern hemisphere, from America, to Russia, across Europe, the Middle East, it even extends to Australia

I gave you data
You ignore it because of reasons
Or you ignore it because you don’t comprehend it



Now if you had ACTUALLY looked at the data and speak on the evidence, then I’d accept your view

But your just presenting some emotional, personal view, as opposed to any form of independent view point, and you also make excuses to not look at the data such as, “it doesn’t have 4 decimal places of accuracy”

Never in academia have I heard such an excuse



I am looking at data and evidence, and then just asking myself if this was a story passed down by our ancestors, and if it shaped the Noah/Utnapishtim myth

 

[christos]

"Suggestions" are for the suggestible.

Data for your 121.92 meter change in
50 yrs, 100 or 1000 does not exist.

No known global or local event can be meaningfully
connected to the noahs ark story- which goes ,
like you into very fine detail about events that never occurred,

It’s literally right there
I gave it to you

~ 10’C increase in global temperature in 50-100 years, resulting in an estimated 300 to 400 ft increase in ocean depth, due to glacial melt

It’s all there, I have given you the evidence

 

[christos]

You offer me a lesson on precision v accuracy?

I've been since Uni days as a geology major well
acquainted with data re sea level / glacier melt.
I don't need to look at your " dara".

I did tho randomly pick one to look at. the " human origins" one written on a middle school level for the noon.

Statements like that " originally thought glacial melt took tens of thousands of years" , and the wild overgeneralization
from the Ice dam flooding in America's northwest failed to impres me as a source of agenda free data.

You cannot show data for your claims.
Simple.

Try a reputable source and highlight where it backs
your claims. You will fail.

Absolutely I can give you a lesson in precision and error margins if you want