Noahs Ark

[Bware]

During the 2nd creative period or 'day' when the earth's atmospheric 'expanse' was formed, there were waters beneath that 'expanse' and waters above it (Gen. 1:6,7) The waters 'beneath' were those already on earth. Waters 'above' were the quantities of moisture suspended high above the earth, forming this vast watery deep. It was those waters that fell upon the earth in Noah's day.

The windows of heaven would be flood gates opening causing water to fall. Rain could thus descend in channels besides as just rainfall.
Gen (8:2) they were then stopped up.

This has been beaten to death, if there was 13.8BILLION cubic miles of water suspended above the earth, then the whole earth would be poached like an egg.

Heaven has the basic meaning of high or lofty. Mid heaven would be where the birds fly. Outer space, or the physical heavens, extends through earth's atmosphere. The spiritual heavens is where angels and God dwell.

So if we get in a space ship and keep flying up forever, in around a million light years we will punch through heaven? omg!:angel2:

Before the Flood the ice caps were not frozen, and as you know if they melt the water levels will rise. The sudden change in climate caused the ice caps to form.

Science experiment time...Get a glass of water, put ice cubes (ice caps) in it, let the ice cubes melt, see if your glass over flows..

Water drained off into the sea basins. Apparently before the Flood there was more land area, so sea basins would now be enlarged to cover 70%.

there is only 383 million cubic miles of water on earth currently. Even if the world had ZERO water before all this, and the water filled the empty basins, we would still live in water world. The amount needed to cover all the mountain peaks on earth is 13.7billion cubic miles of water. You can't fathom that amount of liquid. Where did the remainder go?

 

[Bware]

The waters receded into sea basins. Scientists say the continents rest on huge plates. Movement of these plates can cause changes in the level of the earth's surface. In some place there are great underwater abysses more than 6 miles deep at the plate boundaries. Movement of the plates, and the sea bottom sinking, causing great trenches to be opened, would allow water to drain off land. Perhaps before the Flood there was more land area. Plus with the freezing at the ice caps the water level would be lower. Rising water is a concern if they were now to melt.

Okay there is several things wrong here.
1.The deepest spot on the earth is the Mariana Trench which is 36,201feet (6.8miles) if this is what you mean by underwater abyss then you are wrong. There is 383 million cubic miles of water on earth, INCLUDING the water in the Mariana Trench. Now if you mean that there is water BENEATH the plates of the earth, then I would like a link to this supposed "research". All that is under the plates is magma.
2.Water EXPANDS when it freezes, it is the only substance with this property. Most substances contract when they reach a freezing point. Water however does not, it contracts until 4degrees celsius, then at freezing point it expands over 9%. So when the the ice caps froze, then the water level actually will go UP. Try it, fill up a glass of water, mark where the water level is, put in some ice cubes. Mark the glass again. Let them melt and check out the water level.

*edit* here is a link for when you dispute water expanding: http://www.iapws.org/faq1/freeze.htm

 

[averageJOE]

Since mountains and sea basins rise and fall, with the extra water the sea basins making deeper depressions would have gotten deeper, so couldn't mountain ranges have gotten pushed up higher ? Also the freezing at the poles could have an effect on the surface.

What about areas where boulders were moved by the force of water?

Wow!! The power of the Flood water is truely amazing the way you describe it!! The power and force of the flood water was able to raise the mountains, move boulders, move and shape the lands!! That sounds like pretty powerfull water moving at a tremondous speed!!

So if the flood water was able to do all this to the EARTH how the heck did the ark itself stay in one piece? Wouldn't, as you put it, "the force of water" destroy the ark?

 

[Bware]

Right , today no one lives 600 years. According to Genesis if Adam had not disobeyed he could have lived forever right here on earth. After human imperfection entered the picture because of Adam's disobedience mankind could only live up to 1000 years or a thousand-year day. Even the oldest person recorded did not make it quite to 1000 years. After the Flood man's age dropped greatly. Revelation climaxes with the return of living forever on earth for the majority of mankind because through divine intervention Jesus will rid the earth of war, food shortages, sickness and even death.
This peace on earth will be for men of goodwill.


(Psalms 37:11,29,38; 92:7; Proverbs 2:21,22; 10:30)

Do I need to do this to you again? Sigh...
Genesis 3:21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side [e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

That spot I bolded and underlined, it says that if he ate from the tree of life (which he didn't) THEN he would be immortal. Nowhere does it say he would only live to be 1000 years old. Infact in Genesis 6 says that man would only live to be 120 years old.

It seems that using the Bible (which you seem confused about) doesn't really work to defend your point. You could try, I dunno science.

 

[Autodidact]

After the Flood, Nimrod set up ancient Babylon. From the tower of Babel people migrated from there and spread throughout the earth taking their pagan ideas and practices with them and spread them world wide. There is no mention of Egypt before the Flood.

Well, when do you assert this flood occurred?

 

[nonbeliever_92]

Okay to everyone on this thread, there seems to be a major misunderstanding between those who are just simply stating what the bible says and those who wants explanations as to what actually may have occurred.

The arguments have been such as this:

-"Well where did the water come from?"

-"Well, the bible says the window of heaven"

-"Well what is this window?"

-"I don't know, the bible doesn't say."

The responders are not saying that this is what happened or that this is what they believed becuase that would be completely irrelevant in this context, they are just simply saying what is said in the bible as the OP tends to lean towards that for basis of the discussion and explanations given within it. Their point is that according to the bible so-and-so is/was that way. They really can't provide an explanation beyond that because it would be unfair to ask that of them, they had no hand in the making of the bible.

 

[Autodidact]

Yes, it is very possible the mountains could have been lower before the Flood.

Are you saying that they were? That the earth was flat before the flood, and mountains only arose after? Is that what you're saying?

 

[Autodidact]

God can not do anything. God can not lie.

Ding! So if all of nature makes it clear that there was no flood, then we know that there was indeed no flood, because God cannot lie, right?

 

[Autodidact]

Does the fossil record give evidence of gradual changes, or do each group of fossils appear in a different geological era?

Gradual changes.

 

[Autodidact]

During the 2nd creative period or 'day' when the earth's atmospheric 'expanse' was formed, there were waters beneath that 'expanse' and waters above it (Gen. 1:6,7) The waters 'beneath' were those already on earth. Waters 'above' were the quantities of moisture suspended high above the earth, forming this vast watery deep. It was those waters that fell upon the earth in Noah's day.

The windows of heaven would be flood gates opening causing water to fall. Rain could thus descend in channels besides as just rainfall.
Gen (8:2) they were then stopped up.

Heaven has the basic meaning of high or lofty. Mid heaven would be where the birds fly. Outer space, or the physical heavens, extends through earth's atmosphere. The spiritual heavens is where angels and God dwell.

Before the Flood the ice caps were not frozen, and as you know if they melt the water levels will rise. The sudden change in climate caused the ice caps to form.

Water drained off into the sea basins. Apparently before the Flood there was more land area, so sea basins would now be enlarged to cover 70%.

Wow, that is some excellent drivel.

So if I'm following you, in plain English, what you're saying is that

• the earth was totally flat, with no mountains.
• there were some kind of openings, windows, in the sky (? how does that work?)
• there was a bunch of water vapor suspended in outer space, outside the moon's orbit, and that water suddenly fell to earth, mush of it through holes in the sky.
• the holes in the sky then closed.
• the flood froze the polar ice caps, which caused there to be more water (?)
• the land shrunk. There is less land now then there was then. (Are you saying that the entire planet shrank?)
• the water drained off into the oceans, which caused them to get smaller
• mountains sprang up after the flood.

Is that all an accurate statement of what you are saying?

 

[Autodidact]

Since mountains and sea basins rise and fall, with the extra water the sea basins making deeper depressions would have gotten deeper, so couldn't mountain ranges have gotten pushed up higher ? Also the freezing at the poles could have an effect on the surface.

I can't picture what you're describing. Are you saying that when tectonic plates move around, it somehow makes big holes for the water to drain into?

Can you share your math please?

What about areas where boulders were moved by the force of water?

What about them. They get rolled downhill. Cuz picture what happens if you drop a boulder into a lake. It sinks, does it not?

 

[Autodidact]

Okay to everyone on this thread, there seems to be a major misunderstanding between those who are just simply stating what the bible says and those who wants explanations as to what actually may have occurred.

The arguments have been such as this:

-"Well where did the water come from?"

-"Well, the bible says the window of heaven"

-"Well what is this window?"

-"I don't know, the bible doesn't say."

The responders are not saying that this is what happened or that this is what they believed becuase that would be completely irrelevant in this context, they are just simply saying what is said in the bible as the OP tends to lean towards that for basis of the discussion and explanations given within it. Their point is that according to the bible so-and-so is/was that way. They really can't provide an explanation beyond that because it would be unfair to ask that of them, they had no hand in the making of the bible.

No, URA is asserting that this tale corresponds with reality, that is, that it actually happened, right, URA?

As for sandy, it's a waste of time trying to converse with him.

 

[Autodidact]

URA: I'm confused about kinds, because your answer contradicted itself. It's as though you said, "A kind is a horse, you know, with fins and scales." Let me make it easier:

Is a "kind" a:

kingdom
phyla
class
order
family
genus
species

or something else? If so, what?

 

[Autodidact]

Varves?

 

[nonbeliever_92]

oh actually i was referring back to sandy.

 

[Bware]

Okay to everyone on this thread, there seems to be a major misunderstanding between those who are just simply stating what the bible says and those who wants explanations as to what actually may have occurred.

The arguments have been such as this:

-"Well where did the water come from?"

-"Well, the bible says the window of heaven"

-"Well what is this window?"

-"I don't know, the bible doesn't say."

The responders are not saying that this is what happened or that this is what they believed becuase that would be completely irrelevant in this context, they are just simply saying what is said in the bible as the OP tends to lean towards that for basis of the discussion and explanations given within it. Their point is that according to the bible so-and-so is/was that way. They really can't provide an explanation beyond that because it would be unfair to ask that of them, they had no hand in the making of the bible.

Right but if you read through this entire thread, which I'll admit takes a long time, several people, me included, have used the Bible, and JUST the Bible to refute their claims and show them the errors. Yet those people just say , well god did it. They then make up craziness that they losely base off of the Bible and then they try to defend it. So when we are refuting them like Autodidact is doing, he is refuting stuff they they made up based on the Bible. He's not branching off from the Bible or going a different direction, those trying to defend the Flood story are branching off, such as URAVIPME2 and SANDY.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Well, when do you assert this flood occurred?

It's weird isn't it? Everyone I've encountered online suggest it was 2400 years (give or take a few) BC. It's that the case then it's smack in the face to other cultures that seemed to be thriving during that time with no interruption or recording of a WWF event....

 

[sandy whitelinger]

How is describing a worldwide flood not natural history?

Bacause natural history does not recognize a worldwide flood.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Bacause natural history does not recognize a worldwide flood.

Hmmm, I wonder why....

 

[sandy whitelinger]

So you think, some how, we missed that passage? NO...we didn't. The passage is illogical.

I believe that at the time I entered the discussion that passage was not percieved.

So water is outside of the earth in the heavens (Space).

Not space. Heaven.

So how did it get to earth (inside the earth's atmosphere?)

The bible only says that the windows of heaven were opened.

Wouldn't any water outside of the earth be frozen?

Does that make it not water?

Wouldn't any attempt to get the water through the atmosphere prove to be futile due to the extreme heat of the atmosphere?

I'm not understanding your point.