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Noahs Ark

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
They got what was coming to them.

But think about this absolutely retarded argument. God stepped in to save ONE person's life by ANNIHILATING ALMOST EVERY LIVING THING ON EARTH!

And yet, there are genocides and Holocausts, mass killings, and assorted murders, state executions, witch burnings, beheadings, and all that fun stuff. Why isn't God stepping in with more floods to "purge the scum of society"?

It shows a lot about someone's character if this is their version of God and they choose to worship a God like this.
 

richardlowellt

Well-Known Member
They got what was coming to them.

But think about this absolutely retarded argument. God stepped in to save ONE person's life by ANNIHILATING ALMOST EVERY LIVING THING ON EARTH!

And yet, there are genocides and Holocausts, mass killings, and assorted murders, state executions, witch burnings, beheadings, and all that fun stuff. Why isn't God stepping in with more floods to "purge the scum of society"?

It shows a lot about someone's character if this is their version of God and they choose to worship a God like this.
It's unfortunate that some people adopt the adopt the attitude that reflects the Christian song sung by children-----"How do I know, the bible tells me so" Like the children, some adults never even consider questioning this text.
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
If someone wanted to destroy you and your family how would you feel?

The violent people of Noah's day would have destroyed righteous Noah and his family if God had not first stepped in.

Wouldn't you want someone to step in and save you and your family?

The people of Noah's day could have been spared but they were beyond reform. Because of the violence not only would they have killed off Noah and his family they would have turned on each other. Would you want your children to live in such an unsafe, dangerous world where their very lives were in danger from those very ones around them?
What does Genesis 6:5 say about those people?____________________

Reality check.......

Our world, today, is a more dangerous place.....What, your god didn't know that before he created man they would disobey him and then he'd have to step in, say how sorry and sad he was for making man...and have to drown them all to death...???? Doesn't sound like an omnipotent/omniscient to me....And what did those poor innocent babies, children, animals, insects do to deserve your god's wrath.....????

No...Sir...what you have is a book of tales sprinkled with a hint or geological, archeological...scientific truth in it....but not very much...because for the most part...the bible gets is wrong.
 
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URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Granted our world is even a more dangerous place. Mankind has the capabilities to even harm the planet besides each other.

Did all the angels disobey God? They were a perfect spirit creation created with free will also. Most remained faithful.

Perfect human creation like angelic creation was created with free will. There was no reason for God to use foreknowledge since he was the one who gave all the gift of free will in the first place to choose. God only decreed the flood after the fallen angels (so to speak) and fallen mankind reached the point of no return where their violence was concerned. No intervention would have meant no one righteous left on earth.

God can not do everything. God can not lie. God chooses not to intervene in our choices.
Adam chose independence from God and God honored Adam's choice. Most of mankind has made that same choice. Sadly many have made that choice under the disguise of a religious veneer.

God made parents responsible for their minor children.. Those violent parents whose thoughts were bad all the time (Gen 6:5) were not the loving parents you might like to think. They may have had a selfish distorted form of love but not the natural affection they should have had. They were filling the earth with violence (Gen 6:11) They would not only have ended up killing each other, but anyone righteous also.
Besides being an ark builder Noah was a preacher (2Pt2:5). By their own choice those warned parents did not put themselves on the ark to save either themselves or their children. Maybe animal kind became diseased though some of the practices of those violent people.?

Even the world knows 'as the twig is bent so the tree will grow'. Those pre-flood children were being' bent' to be violent and bully each other and that would not have stopped on their own.

In Scripture God always warns first both righteous and unrighteous. (Eze3:18-21) before he acts. Just like today we are warned that there will be divine intervention by Jesus taking action as Matthew (25:32) says. Only sheep-like ones will survive when the wicked are destroyed by Jesus. Once the political world (Rev17:2) turns on the religious world (Rev 18:7) that has proven itself false by playing false to God and Jesus, then once again there will be divine intervention, and after Jesus rids the earth of wickedness only the sheep-like ones of Matthew chapter 25 will be left when Jesus ushers in peace on earth to men of goodwill.

There is no getting it wrong. Compare Isaiah 11:4 with Rev. 19:15
As it is written so it shall be.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Good thing your god got rid of all those potentially evil children and infants too.

As the twig is bent so the tree will grow.

Violence begets violence. Violent parents, whose thoughts are bad all the time as Gen (6:5,11) informs, were bending their offspring to also be violent.

They would not only have killed off each other, they would have killed off all righteous ones.
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
As the twig is bent so the tree will grow.

Violence begets violence. Violent parents, whose thoughts are bad all the time as Gen (6:5,11) informs, were bending their offspring to also be violent.

They would not only have killed off each other, they would have killed off all righteous ones.


Whoa. So you are in favour of killing the children of violent parents simply because they MAY also be "bent to be violent"? Or is this senseless act of genocide only permissible when your God does it?

In either case, this belief of yours sickens me and should sicken anyone else who claims to uphold moral principles.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
URA: This is a thread about scientific evidence for and against Noah's flood. Please spare us the barbaric myths and comical prophesies and focus. Do you have a shred of evidence to respond to the 16 or so major scientific objections, or shall we all agree that every field of science definitively proves that no such flood could ever have happened?
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Whoa. So you are in favour of killing the children of violent parents simply because they MAY also be "bent to be violent"? Or is this senseless act of genocide only permissible when your God does it?

In either case, this belief of yours sickens me and should sicken anyone else who claims to uphold moral principles.

If you and URA want to argue over the morality of drowning newborn babies, could you start a thread? This one is about science and the ark. Thanks.
 

Rogue Cardinal

Devil's Advocate
They got what was coming to them.

But think about this absolutely retarded argument. God stepped in to save ONE person's life by ANNIHILATING ALMOST EVERY LIVING THING ON EARTH!

And yet, there are genocides and Holocausts, mass killings, and assorted murders, state executions, witch burnings, beheadings, and all that fun stuff. Why isn't God stepping in with more floods to "purge the scum of society"?

It shows a lot about someone's character if this is their version of God and they choose to worship a God like this.
Well to be HONEST....it wasn't ONE person he saved. Noah's family was on the Ark with him.....so it would be more accurate to say he saved ONE family.

What's more of a pressing question is why would an omnipotent God need a mulligan on creation?
 

richardlowellt

Well-Known Member
God can not do everything.
LOL, what the sense of being god if you can't do everything? what a foolish statement, on one hand you believe god created the cosmos, billions of galaxies, created you and me and our planet, but-----"he can't do everything" Maybe thats because he only exists in the minds of the deluded.


Even the world knows 'as the twig is bent so the tree will grow'. Those pre-flood children were being' bent' to be violent and bully each other and that would not have stopped on their own.
What a horrible belief, that children were killed because they "may" have become violent. Like other here this belief sickens me.
 

Rogue Cardinal

Devil's Advocate
Granted our world is even a more dangerous place. Mankind has the capabilities to even harm the planet besides each other.
So once....a long time ago....God saw fit to "fix" a doomed planet. HE saved one family. Did he NOT know that they were already stained by the original sin and that the ways of man would prevail again? And now, as you admit freely, it is worse than ever.

Did all the angels disobey God? They were a perfect spirit creation created with free will also. Most remained faithful.
Did they? Can you site biblical evidence that they ever disobeyed God? I don't think you can.

Perfect human creation like angelic creation was created with free will. There was no reason for God to use foreknowledge since he was the one who gave all the gift of free will in the first place to choose. God only decreed the flood after the fallen angels (so to speak) and fallen mankind reached the point of no return where their violence was concerned. No intervention would have meant no one righteous left on earth.
PLease support that it was the "violence of man" that made God angry and thus destroy the planet.

Please support how there was no one righteous on Earth if God hadn't stepped in.

God can not do everything. God can not lie. God chooses not to intervene in our choices.
Adam chose independence from God and God honored Adam's choice. Most of mankind has made that same choice. Sadly many have made that choice under the disguise of a religious veneer.
So why does God give freewill and then get upset when man uses that freewill? Is that not a contradiction?

Why allow Adam to exercise his freewill and destroy Onan immediately for exercising his freewill. Let it be noted that Adam's exercise of freewill doomed an entire planet. Onan's exercise of freewill doomed only him.

God made parents responsible for their minor children.. Those violent parents whose thoughts were bad all the time (Gen 6:5) were not the loving parents you might like to think.
How do you get THAT out of:

Genesis 6:5 (aka what is REALLY says)
"The Lord saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time."

They may have had a selfish distorted form of love but not the natural affection they should have had. They were filling the earth with violence (Gen 6:11) They would not only have ended up killing each other, but anyone righteous also.
Ah the first time you kinda got it right....this is the first time violence is mentioned....but it's not alone. For it was "corrupt in God's site AND full of violence".

So why not save the other righteous people....why just Noah's family? In essence God killed righteous people perhaps.

Besides being an ark builder Noah was a preacher (2Pt2:5). By their own choice those warned parents did not put themselves on the ark to save either themselves or their children. Maybe animal kind became diseased though some of the practices of those violent people.?
Or perhaps....if you are goign to flood the earth to get rid of man....animals are just part of what we now call friendly fire. Collateral damage if you will.

Even the world knows 'as the twig is bent so the tree will grow'. Those pre-flood children were being' bent' to be violent and bully each other and that would not have stopped on their own.
Ah this is absolute hooy. I see children everyday that come from TERRIBLE home lifes that are certainly on their way OUT of the darkness that is their life.

I will not dispute the fact that more often than not children in bad situation emulate of fall into those same bad habits but it's not 100% true. IF you EDUCATE them...more often than not you can save them from their family and give them their life.

In Scripture God always warns first both righteous and unrighteous. (Eze3:18-21) before he acts. Just like today we are warned that there will be divine intervention by Jesus taking action as Matthew (25:32) says. Only sheep-like ones will survive when the wicked are destroyed by Jesus. Once the political world (Rev17:2) turns on the religious world (Rev 18:7) that has proven itself false by playing false to God and Jesus, then once again there will be divine intervention, and after Jesus rids the earth of wickedness only the sheep-like ones of Matthew chapter 25 will be left when Jesus ushers in peace on earth to men of goodwill.
What if you aren't wicked....you just don't believe?

There is no getting it wrong. Compare Isaiah 11:4 with Rev. 19:15
As it is written so it shall be.
Sure you can get it wrong...compare Exodus 20:16 and Proverbs 12:22 to I Kings 22:23 and II Thessalonians 2:11

Exodus "Thou shalt not bear false witness."

Proverbs "Lying lips are an abomination to the lord"

I Kings "The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee."

II Thessalonians "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."

FurthermoreJoshua 2:4-6 and James 2:25.....a lying prostitute is praised for being a liar.
 

OmarKhayyam

Well-Known Member
So do have any scientific evidence for this flood? Any at all? Are do we have nothing but an ancient myth?

Somebody have some actual fact(s) or do you assert your holy book is both necessary and sufficient evidence?
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Did all the angels disobey God? They were a perfect spirit creation created with free will also. Most remained faithful.

I don't know. You tell me.

I never knew one could disobey the God of the bible. How could they....? They are basically doing exactly what this god created them to do.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I don't know. You tell me.

I never knew one could disobey the God of the bible. How could they....? They are basically doing exactly what this god created them to do.

God created the angels perfect. Perfect does not mean immortal.
Adam had human perfection and that too does not mean immortal.

In order for Adam to live forever would be under the condition of obedience.
In order for angels to live forever they would also have to obey their Creator.

Angels were created to remain in the heavenly spirit realm.
Adam was created to remain in the earthly realm of physical existence.
Angels are to do God's will for them in heaven or the heavenly realm.

Satan at first was a perfect angel meaning he could only do wrong on purpose. Satan and some other angels joined him in disobeying God.
Jude verse six talks of those angels as forsaking their original position in the heavens. Those angelic 'sons of God' (Gen 6:2,4) materialized in human form, and the hybrid children they had with earth's daughters were nephilim (fellers) mighty ones (verse 4) bullies or tyrants whose wickedness made matters even worse. The Flood caused the materialized bodies of those 'fallen' angels to be destroyed. Since they do not die as we die, for the time being, they are held in or imprisoned in what is termed 'darkness' in Jude six.

So all perfect creation because of having the gift of free will can choose to obey or disobey. Disobedience has proved to result in, not peace on earth, but violence. God created all to be exactly doing what we should be doing in obeying God's Golden Rule or as James (2:8) called it the kingly or royal law.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
So once....a long time ago....God saw fit to "fix" a doomed planet. HE saved one family. Did he NOT know that they were already stained by the original sin and that the ways of man would prevail again? And now, as you admit freely, it is worse than ever.

RE: Yes, all of Adam's descendants (us) are imperfect meaning that our leanings are toward imperfection. Yes imperfection would prevail that is why the Law was given to show that sins would manifest itself and no man could correct his imperfection. That does not mean all would practice being wicked. The resurrection is for the just and unjust ( Acts 24:15) destruction is for the wicked.


Did they? Can you site biblical evidence that they ever disobeyed God? I don't think you can.

RE: Genesis chapter 6 shows angelic Satan and his 'fallen' angels did disobey.


PLease support that it was the "violence of man" that made God angry and thus destroy the planet.

RE: Biblical support is in Genesis chapter six. Please note the wicked world not the actual planet earth was destroyed.

Please support how there was no one righteous on Earth if God hadn't stepped in.

RE: Abraham came to that conclusion in Genesis chapter 18.


So why does God give freewill and then get upset when man uses that freewill? Is that not a contradiction?

RE: Freedom to use free will within the framework of the Golden Rule.

Why allow Adam to exercise his freewill and destroy Onan immediately for exercising his freewill. Let it be noted that Adam's exercise of freewill doomed an entire planet. Onan's exercise of freewill doomed only him.

RE: Before becoming under the Mosaic law the people agreed to it.
Just like a person would agree to a nations laws before becoming a citizen.
Perfect Adam lived before the Mosaic Law was given.


How do you get THAT out of:

Genesis 6:5 (aka what is REALLY says)
"The Lord saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time."


Ah the first time you kinda got it right....this is the first time violence is mentioned....but it's not alone. For it was "corrupt in God's site AND full of violence".

So why not save the other righteous people....why just Noah's family? In essence God killed righteous people perhaps.

RE: Chapter 18 of Genesis Abraham questioned God (vs 25 twice) if he would destroy anyone righteous. 2nd Peter (2:7-9) God delivers the godly or righteous. Please also note that the war Jesus makes is called a 'righteous' war at Rev (19:11,15) meaning no one innocent will die by the executional words of his mouth.


Or perhaps....if you are goign to flood the earth to get rid of man....animals are just part of what we now call friendly fire. Collateral damage if you will.

RE: Since the Scriptures are silent we don't know the reason. The flood also destroyed the materialized of the 'fallen' angels.


Ah this is absolute hooy. I see children everyday that come from TERRIBLE home lifes that are certainly on their way OUT of the darkness that is their life.

RE: Fallen angels are held (imprisoned) in figurative chains of spiritual darkness. That is not the same thing.

I will not dispute the fact that more often than not children in bad situation emulate of fall into those same bad habits but it's not 100% true. IF you EDUCATE them...more often than not you can save them from their family and give them their life.

RE: Good point. But in Noah's day all the parents, families and others were violent to the point that only evil was in their hearts (Gen 6:5). Those children were EDUCATED only in violence.


What if you aren't wicked....you just don't believe?

RE: The majority of mankind have lived and died without having accurate Bible knowledge. After the first century ended the clergy class developed and rather than teach what the Bible really teaches they taught traditions or customs of men not found in Scripture. Matthew (12:32) wrote only those who commit the unforgivable sin will have no future in the world to come.
That 'world to come' is Jesus thousand-year rule over earth wherein righteousness will dwell (2Peter3:13). At that time, all that are not judged as being 'goat-like' (Matt 25:32) will have the opportunity to believe besides the resurrected ones.-Acts 24:15.


Sure you can get it wrong...compare Exodus 20:16 and Proverbs 12:22 to I Kings 22:23 and II Thessalonians 2:11

Exodus "Thou shalt not bear false witness."

Proverbs "Lying lips are an abomination to the lord"

I Kings "The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee."

II Thessalonians "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."

FurthermoreJoshua 2:4-6 and James 2:25.....a lying prostitute is praised for being a liar.

RE: Why do you say Rahab was a liar? Also please note Rahab was a Canaanite and among the Canaanites harlotry was Not a business of ill repute.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Wouldn't death be an imperfection in relation to life though.

The opposite of life is death. Only with human perfection or angelic perfection can one have eternal or everlasting life.

Since we are imperfect through no fault of our own we are offered an opportunity to gain that perfection Adam originally had.

Jesus gives an opportunity to some to rule with him in his heavenly kingdom (Rev 5:9,10) and the rest to be subjects under his kingdom rule over the earth to be part of the humble meek that will inherit the earth after Jesus removes all wickedness. (Isaiah 11:4; Rev 19:11,15; Psalm 37:11,29,38; 92:7) and Jesus ushers in peace on earth to men of goodwill.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Whoa. So you are in favour of killing the children of violent parents simply because they MAY also be "bent to be violent"? Or is this senseless act of genocide only permissible when your God does it?

In either case, this belief of yours sickens me and should sicken anyone else who claims to uphold moral principles.


Genesis 6:5 does not say MAY or MAYBE but that all hearts were bad.

Because God had to uphold his moral principles he had to intervene and save the righteous. Only 8 souls being Noah and his family were counted as righteous. God made parents responsible for their minor children.
Parents chose not to listen to Noah's warnings. They were warned in advance just as we are waned in advance.
 
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