Noahs Ark

[URAVIP2ME]

If the people in the world of Noah's Day were so wicked and violent that they needed to be killed off, how was Noah able to keep these people from robbing him?

It's estimated that it would have taken Noah about 75 years to build the Ark. While he was building it he would have had a giant construction site full of wood, tools and other supplies lying all over the place. Not to mention the ark itself. All this would have been a gold mine for anyone who was looking for wood and supplies to build their own home. How did he keep from being robbed by these wicked evil people looking for free wood?

Also, how did Noah prevent wood rot? What do you think would happen to a 2x4 if you left it ouside for 50 years? It rots, correct? How did he prevent the Ark from wood rot?

Great questions. What makes you think Noah was not robbed?
Perhaps Noah and sons took turns with night watches?

Bible chronology points to more like 50 some years to build the ark.

We do not know the effect of the climate at that time on wood, but the wood was covered with waterproofing before the rains came down. When did the waterproofing begin? (Gen 6:14) Couldn't it have been done little by little instead of all at once?

Once Noah is resurrected (Acts 24:15) during Jesus thousand-year reign over earth he can be asked.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

There are so many non-violent, death free way's this could have been done. Obviously your god's not very ethical.

Speaking of ethics, do you have any? I mean come on, children's parents are 'bad' so before they sin it's okay to kill the kids. Wow. I mean freaking wow.

The parents were more than bad they were violently wicked. That meant they were violent with their children too. In other words very abusive parents. They were raising their children to also be violent- Gen 6:5. There are some sins (crimes) in God's eyes that are worthy of being a capital crime (sin) and worthy of capital punishment.

Revelation chapter 19 shows even Jesus comes in the role as executioner for the sake of the righteous because as verse 11 says he carries on war in righteousness.

 

[richardlowellt]

We do not know the effect of the climate at that time on wood, but the wood was covered with waterproofing before the rains came down.

How much Thompsons waterseal did they need and were did they get it?

When did the waterproofing begin?

LOL of course you don't know.

Once Noah is resurrected (Acts 24:15) during Jesus thousand-year reign over earth he can be asked.

[/QUOTE]I won't hold my breath.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

God could have saved them from their parents, but he didn't, why? Why punish instead of re-educating the children?

The message in this book is terrible. Why remove the righteous instead of teaching them? With God's infinite powers why did he not help Noah to cleanse these people of their violence?

However, violence is all we see today. Obviously some of those little gretchins could swim pretty well haha. This is a disgrace, i cannot believe i'm even bothering.

God made the parents responsible for the minor child.
In Jesus day he did say to educate or teach peace- Matthew (28:19,20)- until he comes in action against our present day world of wickedness.

God 'did' use Noah as a preacher of righteousness for decades before he brought the Deluge. (2Peter2:5). Just like today the people would not listen.

"Why remove the righteous instead of teaching them?" According to Proverbs (2:21,22) the righteous or upright 'remain'. They are not removed. The wicked are cut off from the earth. Psalm (92:7) wicked are destroyed.
The wicked apparently do not want to be 'taught' the ways of peace.

The fact that violence is all we see today is showing that only through divine intervention can there ever be peace on earth. Only Jesus can and will bring peace on earth and peace for men of goodwill. Men may be saying 'peace and security' (1st Thess 5:2,3), but that is only a precursor to Jesus coming by surprise and taking action.-Isaiah 11:4.- against all badness on earth.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

God made the parents responsible for the minor child.
In Jesus day he did say to educate or teach peace- Matthew (28:19,20)- until he comes in action against our present day world of wickedness.

God 'did' use Noah as a preacher of righteousness for decades before he brought the Deluge. (2Peter2:5). Just like today the people would not listen.

"Why remove the righteous instead of teaching them?" According to Proverbs (2:21,22) the righteous or upright 'remain'. They are not removed. The wicked are cut off from the earth. Psalm (92:7) wicked are destroyed.
The wicked apparently do not want to be 'taught' the ways of peace.

The fact that violence is all we see today is showing that only through divine intervention can there ever be peace on earth. Only Jesus can and will bring peace on earth and peace for men of goodwill. Men may be saying 'peace and security' (1st Thess 5:2,3), but that is only a precursor to Jesus coming by surprise and taking action.-Isaiah 11:4.- against all badness on earth.

Can anyone explain how it is that seemingly otherwise intelligent people actually believe this crap

 

[URAVIP2ME]

How much Thompsons waterseal did they need and were did they get it?

LOL of course you don't know.

I won't hold my breath.[/quote]

If you hold your breath then both you and Noah will need a resurrection.

Genesis (6:14) says 'pitch'. That is from the Hebrew word zepheth.

Bitumen is referred to by three Hebrew words:
pitch zepheth liquid form
bitumen chemar solid state
tar kopher is used to describe usage how applied

Genesis (14:10) mentions that the valley near Sodom and Gomorrah (Dead Sea area) that was noted for bitumen.

So according to Scripture that would have been available for the ark.


Not exactly Thompson's water seal, but in his book, "The Land and the Book"
'W.M.Thompson' suggests that Exodus (2:3) reveals the process by which they prepared the bitumen. The mineral melts readily enough but when cold is brittle. It must be mixed with tar while melting and forms a hard glassy wax, perfectly impervious to water.
The Septuagint uses the single term 'asphaltopissa' which is a mixture of asphalt and pitch.

 

[richardlowellt]

Can anyone explain how it is that seemingly otherwise intelligent people actually believe this crap

It is truly amazing I agree. To me this is the poison of religion, taking, as you say, seemingly intelligent people and turning them into mindless religious zombies. What is really scary is that no amount of logic or reason can sway them from their rigid mindset. Religion poisons the mind, his posts are evidence of that.

 

[richardlowellt]

I won't hold my breath.

If you hold your breath then both you and Noah will need a resurrection

No thanks I prefer to stay dead.

Genesis (14:10) mentions that the valley near Sodom and Gomorrah (Dead Sea area) that was noted for bitumen.

So according to Scripture that would have been available for the ark.

Do you know the distance from were this ark was being built to the valley were this bitumen was available? Has it been estimated as to how much of this bitumen was needed? Do you know how it was transported and what method was used to apply it to the wood?



'.

The mineral melts readily enough but when cold is brittle

So, as soon as the Ark entered the COLD ocean water, the substance became brittle, cracks opened up in the hull and the ark sank, all hands lost, including all those poor animals. He should have used pitch, like someone else suggested. I do love to watch you tap dance and wiggle trying to make this totally impossible event work, but just so that you know------I NEVER HAPPENED.

 

[Rogue Cardinal]

RE: Yes, all of Adam's descendants (us) are imperfect meaning that our leanings are toward imperfection. Yes imperfection would prevail that is why the Law was given to show that sins would manifest itself and no man could correct his imperfection. That does not mean all would practice being wicked. The resurrection is for the just and unjust ( Acts 24:15) destruction is for the wicked.

So it was a monumental waste. As you say that just because we LEAN toward wicked doesn't mean we will practice it. So God got a mulligan and wasted all that life for nothing.

RE: Genesis chapter 6 shows angelic Satan and his 'fallen' angels did disobey.

You think I am going to let you off the hook THAT easy? Please quote the scripture that shows an angelic Satan and fallen angels. I don't think you can.

RE: Biblical support is in Genesis chapter six. Please note the wicked world not the actual planet earth was destroyed.

PLease note that you asserted that it was only the violence of man that made god upset and thus destroyed the Earth. Please quote the scripture that supports your hypothesis as I don't believe you can.

RE: Abraham came to that conclusion in Genesis chapter 18.

No he did not.

RE: Freedom to use free will within the framework of the Golden Rule.

Golden rule is New Testament. In the OT we are still eye for an eye.

RE: Before becoming under the Mosaic law the people agreed to it.
Just like a person would agree to a nations laws before becoming a citizen.
Perfect Adam lived before the Mosaic Law was given.

Well that's a nice try....but Onan happens way before mosiac law.

RE: Chapter 18 of Genesis Abraham questioned God (vs 25 twice) if he would destroy anyone righteous. 2nd Peter (2:7-9) God delivers the godly or righteous. Please also note that the war Jesus makes is called a 'righteous' war at Rev (19:11,15) meaning no one innocent will die by the executional words of his mouth.

Well the problem is that you don't really know how many times Abraham questioned God. HE Jewed him down....and it was more than twice.

Beyond that you are reading into the words that are written things they clearly do not say at all.

2nd Peter helps your case.....Revelations is crazy talk.

RE: Since the Scriptures are silent we don't know the reason. The flood also destroyed the materialized of the 'fallen' angels.

Support eh "fallen angels" parts.

Interestingly enough...though the Nephilim are not on the ark they appear later in the bible!

RE: Fallen angels are held (imprisoned) in figurative chains of spiritual darkness. That is not the same thing.

Support or retract.

RE: Good point. But in Noah's day all the parents, families and others were violent to the point that only evil was in their hearts (Gen 6:5). Those children were EDUCATED only in violence.

And yet Noah and his folks managed to avoid that somehow.....

Also I would argue there was more to it than violence. Because the Bible says so.

RE: The majority of mankind have lived and died without having accurate Bible knowledge. After the first century ended the clergy class developed and rather than teach what the Bible really teaches they taught traditions or customs of men not found in Scripture. Matthew (12:32) wrote only those who commit the unforgivable sin will have no future in the world to come.
That 'world to come' is Jesus thousand-year rule over earth wherein righteousness will dwell (2Peter3:13). At that time, all that are not judged as being 'goat-like' (Matt 25:32) will have the opportunity to believe besides the resurrected ones.-Acts 24:15.

Though I am an Atheist this is pretty close to what I take from the concept of salvation that I read in the bible.

RE: Why do you say Rahab was a liar? Also please note Rahab was a Canaanite and among the Canaanites harlotry was Not a business of ill repute.

She lied to save the soldiers and get them in. She lied!! That's exactly what she did.

 

[rusra02]

RE: Yes, all of Adam's descendants (us) are imperfect meaning that our leanings are toward imperfection. Yes imperfection would prevail that is why the Law was given to show that sins would manifest itself and no man could correct his imperfection. That does not mean all would practice being wicked. The resurrection is for the just and unjust ( Acts 24:15) destruction is for the wicked.

She lied to save the soldiers and get them in. She lied!! That's exactly what she did.

God approved of what she did. (Hebrews 11:31, Romans 14:4.) She took a risk in order to protect his servants, giving evidence of her faith. While malicious lying is wrong in Jehovah’s eyes, a person is not obligated to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it, especially if doing so would result in the betrayal of fellow worshippers to God's enemies.

 

[tumbleweed41]

God approved of what she did. (Hebrews 11:31, Romans 14:4.) She took a risk in order to protect his servants, giving evidence of her faith. While malicious lying is wrong in Jehovah’s eyes, a person is not obligated to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it, especially if doing so would result in the betrayal of fellow worshippers to God's enemies.

AH, so it is OK to be a lying prostitute, just so long as you are doing it for the Lord. :sarcastic Gotcha.
(Biblical ethics are so confusing.)

 

[Darkness]

Isn't there a difference between mass murder and an execution carried out for the sake of the just? Noah warned the people of the coming Flood. Just like today the people do not heed the warning that Jesus will come in action to rid the earth of the wicked. Instead of a Flood the words from Jesus mouth will be sharp enough to act as an executioner's sword. His war is a righteous war (Rev 19:11,15) because all righteous ones will be saved or delivered into a peaceful earth.

People like you give religion a bad name. You denigrate people who actually believe in a decent and loving God, who is not a cosmic sadist. Your God killed David's son, just to punish David! Of course, you are going to come up with a excuses upon excuses to defend Yahveh's actions. Roman Polanski ****** a thirteen-year-old girl, but you know, she was already sexually active, she willingly drank the champagne he gave her, so it is not a big deal.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

God made the parent responsible for the minor child.
They were raising the infant, the toddler to become violent.

Eventually the violent would not have only killed off the righteous but also each other. The earth was created for the righteous or good hearted.

Not accordingly to your own bible.....

Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

 

[Darkness]

Not accordingly to your own bible.....

Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Yet, God kills David's son as punishment.

2 Samuel 12:14-15
Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die. And Nathan departed unto his house. And the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.

 

[rusra02]

AH, so it is OK to be a lying prostitute, just so long as you are doing it for the Lord. :sarcastic Gotcha.
(Biblical ethics are so confusing.)

Good to see you you took to heart the words of Romans 14:4.
Since God told Israel to drive out the Canaanites because of their immoral practices and God’s blessing on the conquest of Jericho and upon Rahab herself, it would be entirely unreasonable to assume that the spies committed immorality with Rahab or that she continued her practice of prostitution afterward. (James 2:25)

 

[tumbleweed41]

Good to see you you took to heart the words of Romans 14:4.
Since God told Israel to drive out the Canaanites because of their immoral practices and God’s blessing on the conquest of Jericho and upon Rahab herself, it would be entirely unreasonable to assume that the spies committed immorality with Rahab or that she continued her practice of prostitution afterward. (James 2:25)

Rather than assuming, you would think ,if your statement were true, it would have been mentioned. Instead she is consistently referred to as harlot and prostitute throughout the Bible.

Hebrews 11:31 By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish along with those who were disobedient, after she had welcomed the spies in peace.

James 2:25 In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

Joshua 6:25 However, Rahab the harlot and her father's household and all she had, Joshua spared; and she has lived in the midst of Israel to this day, for she hid the messengers whom Joshua sent to spy out Jericho.

I am not judging Rahab, nor her motives. However it seems that God's moral code is not as iron-clad as many believe.

(ps... Read the entire Chapter of Romans 14 to get the real meaning of what the author was try to point out.)

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Alright...we're getting way too off topic. I know because I've been guilty of it.

Is there anyway to "reconcile" the biblical claims for the flood with the natural world? If so can some one present the evidence. If not can you tell me why not?

 

[Darkness]

I am not judging Rahab, nor her motives. However it seems that God's moral code is not as iron-clad as many believe.

Case in point, God preserves Israeli and Judaic kings when He needs them, even if they disobey Him.

Is there anyway to "reconcile" the biblical claims for the flood with the natural world? If so can some one present the evidence. If not can you tell me why not?

Maybe the Ark was like that futuristic space-craft on Enterprise that is larger on the inside than on the outside. :yes:

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Maybe the Ark was like that futuristic space-craft on Enterprise that is larger on the inside than on the outside. :yes:

Reminds me of the movie "Pandorum"...., if you've seen it......minus the (OK, OK....No spoilers)

 

[freethinker44]

Maybe the Ark was like that futuristic space-craft on Enterprise that is larger on the inside than on the outside. :yes:

Maybe it was a total work of fiction as well.