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Noahs Ark

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend zodiacseven,

Noahs Ark

Personal understanding of this is that during the last global warming when the ice caps melted like the present the earth got mostly covered by water and life still existed after that in various forms including humans.
This only conveys it.
Love & rgds
 

Arlanbb

Active Member
What really disturbing here is that this post was done (apparently) in all sincerity and with a straight face as if it actually presented a valid argument(s).

I have long maintained that belief in these myths is corrosive of human reasoning ability. I submit the above as yet another example.:(
You hit it on the head. Raura02 knows he is grasping @ straws but that is all he can do. The real history of the world defeats all his statements.:):):yes:
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
1000 plus comments later and we're still discussing this (NON-ISSUE). The story is bunk ALL the evidence point's to the contrary concerning this "copied" story....
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Friend zodiacseven,



Personal understanding of this is that during the last global warming when the ice caps melted like the present the earth got mostly covered by water and life still existed after that in various forms including humans.
This only conveys it.
Love & rgds

When Ice melts in a glass does the water level raise up?
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend URAVIP2ME,

When Ice melts in a glass does the water level raise up?

If the oceans are taken as a glass and the and all the ice covered areas outside the glass, what happens when that ice melts and gets poured into your glass [oceans]?

The phenomenon will be great deluge! which is the personal understanding.

Love & rgds
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
If 50 grams of water froze into ice and was added to a glass of water, when it melts, there will still be 50 grams of water. But ice is less dense than water. So the total volume will go down. Ice forms in hexagonal crystals. When in liquid form, water molecules get packed closer together with hydrogen bonds between the individual water molecules. The negative dipole of the oxygen attracts the positive dipole of hydrogen.

So the total mass of the water stays the same. But the total volume of water goes down (assuming it is 100% liquid and no evaporation occurs).

But I'm going to introduce another factor that wouldn't be involved in a simple glass of water (well, I guess it would, on a very small scale - almost unnoticeable). We're talking about a global flood.

Water uses up heat energy from its surroundings in order to evaporate itself into water vapour. More water = more heat energy being used up. More heat energy being sucked up = less heat in water's surroundings. Less heat in water's surroundings = global temperature falling. Global temperature falling = ice reforming. Am I missing something?
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
From my 50 grams of water example, let's assume that water is originally at zero degrees Celsius (freezing point of water) and the temperature raises to ten degrees Celsius, just enough to have it completely melt.

That would take 2090 J (or 2.090 kJ) of energy to raise the temperature of the water from zero to ten degrees Celsius, by my calculations.

q = ncT

Now lets do a rough estimate. Of course there are more factors at play. A quick Google search of "total volume of water on Earth" gives 1.35 x 10^18 kilolitres at this source. Not the most reputable, I know. But this is a rough estimate, not a scientific study.

1.35 x 10^18 kL = 1.35 x 10^24 mL. The density of water is 1g/mL.

That means 1.35 x 10^24 grams of water.

Using water's heat capacity (4.18 J/C.g) and the equation q = mcT, we find that it takes a whopping 5.643 x 10^25 J of energy to turn all of Earth's water into liquid from zero degrees Celsius to ten degrees Celsius.

But obviously all of Earth's water is not already ice. Most is liquid. Another quick Google search shows the volume of ice on Earth is 33x10^6 cubic kilometres, according to this source. It's more reputable.

33x10^6 km^3 of ice = 3.3x10^22 grams of ice. Using the same equation, we get...1.3794 x 10^24 J of energy to convert all the world's ice into liquid water at ten degrees Celsius (assuming all the ice is at temperature zero degrees Celsius. In reality, all the ice isn't at zero degrees Celsius and this number will be MUCH larger).

The total solar energy absorbed by Earth's atmosphere, oceans and land masses is approximately 3850000 exajoules (EJ) [according to Wikipedia].

This is 3.85 x 10^6 EJ/year. Noah's flood occured over one solar year, apparently. This means that the total energy the Earth received from the Sun during Noah's flood was 365 days, making that still 3.85 x 10^6 EJ during the flood.

As a percentage, it would have taken up a total of 35.8% of the total solar energy the Earth receives in one year. This is for the whole duration of the flood. This is assuming the flood happened gradually over the year as the water levels rose.

I assume the story means the flooding actually took place over a shorter period of time and the water level remained static for awhile. This would mean an even greater percentage of the solar energy received by Earth on that time interval. ~36% is an INSANE amount of energy. Sorry, Creationists. The story is BS. 36% is a lower-limit estimate. The number is way higher because all ice is well below zero degrees Celsius. The amount of energy it would take would be even greater. So an educated guess would put the number closer to 50%.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend CM,

Finally does it make sense or not that in reality there was no ark. It is only a story with god and ark thrown in for dramatic effect!

Yes, after every warming period there is bound to be a cooling period when again the water will slowly turn back to ice. Reincarnation???

Love & rgds
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
Friend CM,

Finally does it make sense or not that in reality there was no ark. It is only a story with god and ark thrown in for dramatic effect!

Yes, after every warming period there is bound to be a cooling period when again the water will slowly turn back to ice. Reincarnation???

Love & rgds

Or merely the laws of chemistry in action that give the subjective appearance of "reincarnation"?
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend CM,

THEY are all laws of existence itself which only humans are verifying by labeling them separately as Chemistry/physics/etc.

Development of mind and language and subjects all happened much later than existence.
Love & rgds
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend CM,

I perhaps would be inclined to agree, if I had any clue what you meant by that :S.

All in its own time besides there is nothing as time it is again a *thought*.

Love & rgds
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
From my 50 grams of water example, let's assume that water is originally at zero degrees Celsius (freezing point of water) and the temperature raises to ten degrees Celsius, just enough to have it completely melt.

That would take 2090 J (or 2.090 kJ) of energy to raise the temperature of the water from zero to ten degrees Celsius, by my calculations.

q = ncT

Now lets do a rough estimate. Of course there are more factors at play. A quick Google search of "total volume of water on Earth" gives 1.35 x 10^18 kilolitres at this source. Not the most reputable, I know. But this is a rough estimate, not a scientific study.

1.35 x 10^18 kL = 1.35 x 10^24 mL. The density of water is 1g/mL.

That means 1.35 x 10^24 grams of water.

Using water's heat capacity (4.18 J/C.g) and the equation q = mcT, we find that it takes a whopping 5.643 x 10^25 J of energy to turn all of Earth's water into liquid from zero degrees Celsius to ten degrees Celsius.

But obviously all of Earth's water is not already ice. Most is liquid. Another quick Google search shows the volume of ice on Earth is 33x10^6 cubic kilometres, according to this source. It's more reputable.

33x10^6 km^3 of ice = 3.3x10^22 grams of ice. Using the same equation, we get...1.3794 x 10^24 J of energy to convert all the world's ice into liquid water at ten degrees Celsius (assuming all the ice is at temperature zero degrees Celsius. In reality, all the ice isn't at zero degrees Celsius and this number will be MUCH larger).

The total solar energy absorbed by Earth's atmosphere, oceans and land masses is approximately 3850000 exajoules (EJ) [according to Wikipedia].

This is 3.85 x 10^6 EJ/year. Noah's flood occured over one solar year, apparently. This means that the total energy the Earth received from the Sun during Noah's flood was 365 days, making that still 3.85 x 10^6 EJ during the flood.

As a percentage, it would have taken up a total of 35.8% of the total solar energy the Earth receives in one year. This is for the whole duration of the flood. This is assuming the flood happened gradually over the year as the water levels rose.

I assume the story means the flooding actually took place over a shorter period of time and the water level remained static for awhile. This would mean an even greater percentage of the solar energy received by Earth on that time interval. ~36% is an INSANE amount of energy. Sorry, Creationists. The story is BS. 36% is a lower-limit estimate. The number is way higher because all ice is well below zero degrees Celsius. The amount of energy it would take would be even greater. So an educated guess would put the number closer to 50%.

I appreciate your replies. The rain of course was 40 days/ 40 nights. With Noah being in the Ark 370 days or parts of 371 separate days.

Gen 7:11 mentions the windows of the heaven opened. So some of the rain came down in channels. Verse 18 says the waters prevailed (overwhelmed) and greatly increased. Gen 8:2 says the windows or channels were stopped up and rain restrained. Waters abated after 150 days.

Before the Deluge the area where the polar ice caps are were not frozen.
Apparently oceans were smaller and continents larger with river channels now extending far out under the oceans.

Way back a National Geographic said if all the land was dumped evenly into the sea the water level would cover the earth to 1 1/2 miles deep.

Where the Bible is silent we do not know details, but where possible I will post what the biblical account states.
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
The adjusted calculations for 40 days and 40 nights of rain would require 327% of the solar energy absorbed by the Earth over 40 days and 40 nights. And recall, this is the lower-level estimate still. The actual figure is somewhat higher.

It is literally impossible for the Sun to melt all the ice on the Earth within 40 days.

*I'll recheck my calculations when I get back home. But I have to go out for a few minutes. I'll be back later*
 
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