Noahs Ark

[Bware]

In reply to post 1023 above:

In Genesis chapters 10,11 we read of 70 families by that time.
The life span was very l-o-n-g for the first several hundred years after the Flood. The life span decreased according to Moses about the year 1500 BC(BCE) Psalm 90:10.

Exodus 1:7 says Israel was very fruitful, and since there was plenty of food at that time the people would more readily reproduce.

Exodus 12:37 puts Israel at 600,000 men. From Genesis 46 to Exodus 12 was 215 years. 600,000 'men' is not counting the whole population.

Even after the Israelites became slaves they ate bread, fish, cucumbers, leeks, onions, garlic, pots of meat, and watermelons. Exo 16:3; Num 11:5.
Since they and the Egyptians had plenty of food they all could have been very fruitful.

In the first century Peter traveled to distant Babylon. Since Peter was assigned to preach particularly to the Jews there it would be reasonable that there was a Jewish population in distant Babylon at that time. For what it is worth, the New Encyclopedia Britannica says at that time the chief centers of Jewish population outside of Palestine were in Syria, Asia Minor, Babylon and Egypt with an estimated 100,000 Jews each. (1Peter 5:13; Gal 2:9)

Population growth leveled off in some areas, and some areas remained the same, while other areas increased. Even today we see uneven population growth.

Again, you didn't do the math, at this rate, according to your timeline, nearly 7billion people (current pop) wouldn't be possible. And as with always, the Bible isn't really an accurate historic record, so the numbers might be off. I mean this seriously, because I don't know the answer I'm not being smart: did they ACTUALLY have a real concept of numbers as big as 100000 at the time? 1,000,000?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

So the aborigines are descendants of Noah and his family then? And arrived in Australia after 4000 B.C.E.?

btw, do you think all the other scientific objections to the flood, repeatedly listed in this thread, are just going to go away if you ignore them?

Man...I hope not because they are pretty much spot on....and he nor Sandy as well as some others I see here appear to be able to deal with them.....

 

[TheGodless1]

Geologists are not anthropologists nor archaeologists. And core samples differ in many parts of the world and some interpreted differently. From core samples we have learned that the last ice age was not the first and definitely not the last. Global warming has also been found in core samples everytime right BEFORE a major climate shift occurs such as an ice age. Global flooding can mean regional flooding if it happens at the same geological period in time at many places around the globe. Thats how mankind survived the floods of "Biblical Proportion". In MY view, The Bible speaks metaphorically of what science says in theory. There is no way for any of us to know EXACTLY how or where these things happened as we can only make educated guesses as none of us were there. Geology does wonders to help archaeology and vice versus, but there are not many exact sciences out there as many things in this world are open to interpretation.

 

[darkendless]

Geologists are not anthropologists nor archaeologists. And core samples differ in many parts of the world and some interpreted differently. From core samples we have learned that the last ice age was not the first and definitely not the last. Global warming has also been found in core samples everytime right BEFORE a major climate shift occurs such as an ice age. Global flooding can mean regional flooding if it happens at the same geological period in time at many places around the globe. Thats how mankind survived the floods of "Biblical Proportion". In MY view, The Bible speaks metaphorically of what science says in theory. There is no way for any of us to know EXACTLY how or where these things happened as we can only make educated guesses as none of us were there. Geology does wonders to help archaeology and vice versus, but there are not many exact sciences out there as many things in this world are open to interpretation.

Geology is not about interpretation. Geologists interpret evidence, but evidence is evidence. Core samples for such a "cataclysmic" event would have scarey similarities. Like i've already told you, from my experience in Geology, no flood has ever been as great as the period last year where we had several events in different parts of the world all over about 4 months.

In my view the bible is a story, not be taken literally or seriously. The bible is a pain in the backside for the scientific world.

 

[Vile Atheist]

Geologists are not anthropologists nor archaeologists. And core samples differ in many parts of the world and some interpreted differently. From core samples we have learned that the last ice age was not the first and definitely not the last. Global warming has also been found in core samples everytime right BEFORE a major climate shift occurs such as an ice age. Global flooding can mean regional flooding if it happens at the same geological period in time at many places around the globe. Thats how mankind survived the floods of "Biblical Proportion". In MY view, The Bible speaks metaphorically of what science says in theory. There is no way for any of us to know EXACTLY how or where these things happened as we can only make educated guesses as none of us were there. Geology does wonders to help archaeology and vice versus, but there are not many exact sciences out there as many things in this world are open to interpretation.

We know the last ice age is not the first and won't be the last because the Earth does just change temperature for no reason. It was correctly assumed that ice ages occur for a similar reason that seasons do.

The Earth's orbit has eccentricity (the Earth's orbit changes from ellipse to circle every 100,000 years), obliquity (the Earth's axis of tilt changes from 21.5 degrees to 24.5 degrees every 41,000 years), and the precession of the equinoxes (which is the wobble in the Earth's rotation that occurs in a 26,000 year cycle). The combination of these effects was worked on in 1920 by Milutin Milankovitch who combined the effects of obliquity, eccentricity, and precession of the equinoxes on the amount of solar heat received at different latitudes for the past 1,000,000 years. He argued that the greatest change in the amount of solar heat received occurs at 65 degrees north.

A low summer allowed snow to accumulate during the year. When the maximum temperatures remained low, the ice built up. He predicted the last ice age was 10,000 years ago.

The ice core samples only verified his claims. But ice ages weren't "discovered" because of ice core samples. Interestingly enough, Italian scientist Cesare Emiliani took samples of foraminifera and compared two isotopes of oxygen - oxygen-18 and oxygen-16. When the temperature of the water drops, the foraminifera use oxygen-18 to build their shells and when the water temperature rises, they use oxygen-16.

In ice ages, evaporation from the oceans decreases so as time progresses, the heavier oxygen-18 stays in the water because it is heavier than oxygen-16. So when it is colder, the forams use oxygen-18.

If you plot solar radiation at 65 degrees N with the ratio of oxygen isotopes in the foraminifera, you find they are coincident.

So it is wrong to say that we know the last ice age was not the first and won't be the last from core samples. Orbital theory has much more to do with it.

 

[imaginaryme]

Again, you didn't do the math, at this rate, according to your timeline, nearly 7billion people (current pop) wouldn't be possible. And as with always, the Bible isn't really an accurate historic record, so the numbers might be off. I mean this seriously, because I don't know the answer I'm not being smart: did they ACTUALLY have a real concept of numbers as big as 100000 at the time? 1,000,000?

No. The biggest number known to Archimedes was the myriad, 10^4. It is curious to note that Lao Tzu mentions "the ten thousand things." I think this limitation is most clearly evidenced in the claim that 144,000 will be "chosen." I believe what the original authors really meant was "a whole bunch." Numbers in sacred texts as referring to quantities of people must always be suspect.

 

[Sententia]

How would they get lions and zebras together? How would they make the ark big enough for all those animals? What would they eat and drink? Where would they fit their supplies? Why, as a student having done geology, can i not see evidence for the great flood in the soil profiles taken from the mountain ranges surrounding my city?

The story is not literal.

Another cool thing is kangaroos. A few 1000 years ago when the ark crashed near mt ararat the kangaroos KNEW that they must goto Australia. So off they hopped and rebuilt the kangaroo population solely in Australia. Awesome eh?

 

[Vile Atheist]

Another cool thing is kangaroos. A few 1000 years ago when the ark crashed near mt ararat the kangaroos KNEW that they must goto Australia. So off they hopped and rebuilt the kangaroo population solely in Australia. Awesome eh?

Even if that were true...even if you grant that wild claim that they did somehow know...it is inevitable that some kangaroos would die along the way. So we should see a corridor of kangaroo bones from Mt. Ararat to Australia.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Even if that were true...even if you grant that wild claim that they did somehow know...it is inevitable that some kangaroos would die along the way. So we should see a corridor of kangaroo bones from Mt. Ararat to Australia.

I mean really....could they have hopped all that way to Australia..? And how would they get there....considering Australia is surounded by water?......

NO..!!!!!

I suspect their pouches would have taken on too much water and they would have drowned...Maybe Noah was the ferry man...you know, like a taxi, just dropping animals off all willy nilly.....before he crash landed....

 

[Sententia]

Even if that were true...even if you grant that wild claim that they did somehow know...it is inevitable that some kangaroos would die along the way. So we should see a corridor of kangaroo bones from Mt. Ararat to Australia.

As divine kangaroos their pouches overflowed with holy spirit and runneth over allowing them to travel to austrailia. Adam kangaroo and eve kangaroo first made it to austrailia and then they procreated so no trail of kangaroo bones.

Kangaroo's can't swim far so their pouch, having no joey, was filled with air and food. This allowed them to float. God then blew a gentle wind which guided the air pouch roo's to their homeland.

The journey was long so if they got hungry they would take some from their supply pouch and then refill it with more air.

 

[Autodidact]

Another cool thing is kangaroos. A few 1000 years ago when the ark crashed near mt ararat the kangaroos KNEW that they must goto Australia. So off they hopped and rebuilt the kangaroo population solely in Australia. Awesome eh?

Hey, at least they can hop. What did the poor wombats do? And those sloths, with a top speed of 15 feet per minute? But hey, at least they can swim. How do you think the kiwis got to New Zealand? And how did any of these creatures cross the oceans to get to their present environment?

 

[Vile Atheist]

Hey, at least they can hop. What did the poor wombats do? And those sloths, with a top speed of 15 feet per minute? But hey, at least they can swim. How do you think the kiwis got to New Zealand? And how did any of these creatures cross the oceans to get to their present environment?

They borrowed the Ark from Noah, dummy

 

[rusra02]

For those interested in a possible explanation of how animals migrated after the Flood, (in contrast to those who are simply interested in mocking the Bible record), the findings of oceanographers indicate that at one time land ridges connected what are now isolated land areas. For example, oceanographic studies indicate that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge may have crossed that ocean above the surface. Possibly there were also other ridges, and animals could have migrated by means of these before such ridges sank below the surface of the ocean. Other oceanographic studies have turned up evidence that once there existed a huge South Pacific continent that took in Australia and many of the South Sea isles. If such was the case, then, of course, the animals had no difficulty in migrating to these lands. And not finding bones is no evidence such a migration did not occur. Most bones have long since been dissolved to dust.
People also have been responsible for transporting species to far-flung places where they did not formerly have habitat.

 

[Vile Atheist]

For example, oceanographic studies indicate that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge may have crossed that ocean above the surface.

Could you please cite these studies?

The mid-Atlantic ridge is the product of lithosphere production at divergent plate boundaries (sea-floor spreading). So you want to turn back the clocks to when there was less lithosphere in that area? Not only that, but suggest an Atlantic land bridge was possible, despite a global flood to boot? I call bull.

Other oceanographic studies have turned up evidence that once there existed a huge South Pacific continent that took in Australia and many of the South Sea isles. If such was the case, then, of course, the animals had no difficulty in migrating to these lands. And not finding bones is no evidence such a migration did not occur. Most bones have long since been dissolved to dust

Certainly not thousands of years ago when Noah's flood was purported to happen. All you need to do is take the rate at which tectonic plates are moving, multiply by a few thousand years and you have a rough estimate of how far the continents could possibly move.

Hint: You'll need a lot more time than a few thousand years for this to be possible.

People also have been responsible for transporting species to far-flung places where they did not formerly have habitat.

Oh, you mean the scores of people killed in the supposed flood?

 

[freethinker44]

For those interested in a possible explanation of how animals migrated after the Flood, (in contrast to those who are simply interested in mocking the Bible record), the findings of oceanographers indicate that at one time land ridges connected what are now isolated land areas. For example, oceanographic studies indicate that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge may have crossed that ocean above the surface. Possibly there were also other ridges, and animals could have migrated by means of these before such ridges sank below the surface of the ocean. Other oceanographic studies have turned up evidence that once there existed a huge South Pacific continent that took in Australia and many of the South Sea isles. If such was the case, then, of course, the animals had no difficulty in migrating to these lands. And not finding bones is no evidence such a migration did not occur. Most bones have long since been dissolved to dust.
People also have been responsible for transporting species to far-flung places where they did not formerly have habitat.

All of this would have come and gone thousands of years before the flood was said to have happened.

 

[Arlanbb]

For those interested in a possible explanation of how animals migrated after the Flood, (in contrast to those who are simply interested in mocking the Bible record), the findings of oceanographers indicate that at one time land ridges connected what are now isolated land areas. For example, oceanographic studies indicate that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge may have crossed that ocean above the surface. Possibly there were also other ridges, and animals could have migrated by means of these before such ridges sank below the surface of the ocean. Other oceanographic studies have turned up evidence that once there existed a huge South Pacific continent that took in Australia and many of the South Sea isles. If such was the case, then, of course, the animals had no difficulty in migrating to these lands. And not finding bones is no evidence such a migration did not occur. Most bones have long since been dissolved to dust.
People also have been responsible for transporting species to far-flung places where they did not formerly have habitat.

Rusar02 You left out the dating the oceanographers gave for when these so call crossings could have taken place. It was hunderds of thousands of years ago and every Christian understand that the Genesus Deluge happened a little over 4300 years ago. Which by the way dates to the middle of the Egyptian culture and the middle of the Ur civilization and the Indus civilization and the Sumer culture. If the Genesus deluge really had happen @ that time those 4 culturs would have ended 4300 years ago but they didn't. Why - because the Genesus deluge never happened.

 

[Autodidact]

For those interested in a possible explanation of how animals migrated after the Flood, (in contrast to those who are simply interested in mocking the Bible record), the findings of oceanographers indicate that at one time land ridges connected what are now isolated land areas. For example, oceanographic studies indicate that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge may have crossed that ocean above the surface. Possibly there were also other ridges, and animals could have migrated by means of these before such ridges sank below the surface of the ocean. Other oceanographic studies have turned up evidence that once there existed a huge South Pacific continent that took in Australia and many of the South Sea isles. If such was the case, then, of course, the animals had no difficulty in migrating to these lands. And not finding bones is no evidence such a migration did not occur. Most bones have long since been dissolved to dust.
People also have been responsible for transporting species to far-flung places where they did not formerly have habitat.

1. How long ago do oceanographers believe these land bridges existed?
2. When do oceanographic studies indicate that large land mass broke up?
3. How long do you think it would take sloths to migrate from the mid-east to Costa Rica?
4. How long do you think it would take wombats to migrate from the mid-east to Australia?
5. How long do you think it would take pandas to migrate from the mid-east to China?
6. What fossils would we expect to see between the mid-east and, respectively, South
America, Australia and China, left from the migration of these animals?

 

[Vile Atheist]

1. How long ago do oceanographers believe these land bridges existed?
2. When do oceanographic studies indicate that large land mass broke up?
3. How long do you think it would take sloths to migrate from the mid-east to Costa Rica?
4. How long do you think it would take wombats to migrate from the mid-east to Australia?
5. How long do you think it would take pandas to migrate from the mid-east to China?
6. What fossils would we expect to see between the mid-east and, respectively, South
America, Australia and China, left from the migration of these animals?

You're cheating, Autodidact. You're not supposed to use logic. And facts.

 

[Gunfingers]

This thread was more fun when it was about genocide.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

For those interested in a possible explanation of how animals migrated after the Flood, (in contrast to those who are simply interested in mocking the Bible record), the findings of oceanographers indicate that at one time land ridges connected what are now isolated land areas. For example, oceanographic studies indicate that the Mid-Atlantic Ridge may have crossed that ocean above the surface. Possibly there were also other ridges, and animals could have migrated by means of these before such ridges sank below the surface of the ocean. Other oceanographic studies have turned up evidence that once there existed a huge South Pacific continent that took in Australia and many of the South Sea isles. If such was the case, then, of course, the animals had no difficulty in migrating to these lands. And not finding bones is no evidence such a migration did not occur. Most bones have long since been dissolved to dust.
People also have been responsible for transporting species to far-flung places where they did not formerly have habitat.

What really disturbing here is that this post was done (apparently) in all sincerity and with a straight face as if it actually presented a valid argument(s).

I have long maintained that belief in these myths is corrosive of human reasoning ability. I submit the above as yet another example.