None of it is true - Does this bother anyone?

[Riverwolf]

What's that hanging on the cross in your church then?

She didn't make that sacrifice.

 

[slave2six]

I believe I already said that the Garden of Eden story is accepted by some scholars as an allegory for the "fall" of man from a hunter-gatherer society to a farming society.

I'd be interested to know who those scholars are. It's an interesting idea that I'd never heard before or considered. Just thinking about it now I can see where that would make sense. I'm not sure how "sin" and therefore separation from God / sacrifices to try to appease God would enter into it though.

I'd be interested to read what those scholars you mentioned have to say. Can you give me some names?

 

[slave2six]

She didn't make that sacrifice.

Ask her priest. He will say that her sins put Jesus up there and that Eucharistic blood will cleanse her.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

The Creation story puts Adam and Eve at anywhere from 6,000 to 10,000 years ago (particularly when we take into account the details about Adam's age and the age of those after him).

All of the scientific evidence points to the conclusion that homo sapiens have been around for some 200,000 years, this in stark contrast to the Garden of Eden story. Indeed, all the physical evidence supports evolution on every level whether biological, geological, or astronomical. The only rational conclusion is that the Adam and Eve story is, well, a story.

Wait for it....wait for it...BAM..!!!

I knew it would be a matter of time before some one here equated the creation story/fall of man to a metaphore. This has been done for quite some time. Unfortunately as you study the bible the people in it did not assume Adam or Eve were allegory. They thought them to be flesh and blood who were the beginnings of their bloodline. In fact they believe their Yeshua (Jesus) geneology can be traced all the way back to Adam. The writers of the gospels believed this as well as their Paul believed Adam was a real man.

And this is the first problem: If it is just a story then there never was a singular event called "the fall of man" and therefore all this business of killing bulls or a virgin human sacrifice on a cross is entirely baseless.

True....most of those stories are just that....(Stories)

The second problem is this: If we assume that the Garden/fall of man story is true, the conclusion that we draw is that the God of the Bible is not, in fact, very good at all. There is not one human being who would kick his/her toddler child out of the house for disobeying them (certainly not on a first offense!) or (if they had the power) alter that child's core being so that every one of her descendants would be born "in sin" and under a curse. This would be akin to a prisoner conceiving a child during a conjugal visit and then the powers that be taking steps to ensure that the child was raised in prison since the parent had committed an offense.

Bigger than that...Why would an omnipotent omniscient....even bother with it at all.

Since it is all knowing all powerful then it all would be futile......

 

[slave2six]

Originally Posted by slave2sixIslam isn't even worth discussing. It is less enlightened than the ancient Egyptians and no one here is about to stand up and defend Osiris.

You really don't know some of the people on this board do you.

I suppose not. I've only been here a few days. We have Osiris worshippers hanging about?

Why do I feel that the world is turning out to be one large psych ward?

 

[slave2six]

Bigger than that...Why would an omnipotent omniscient....even bother with it at all.

Since it is all knowing all powerful then it all would be futile......

Good point.

 

[Riverwolf]

I'd be interested to know who those scholars are. It's an interesting idea that I'd never heard before or considered. Just thinking about it now I can see where that would make sense. I'm not sure how "sin" and therefore separation from God / sacrifices to try to appease God would enter into it though.

I'd be interested to read what those scholars you mentioned have to say. Can you give me some names?

I cannot give any ATM. The theory primarily came out of one of my college classes, and then I've heard it now and then here. I'm sure there are other, equally valid, theories regarding the meaning of the story. But very few, if any, Biblical scholars, or anyone who seriously studies the Bible (and even many causal believing readers, as well) believe that the Adam and Eve story is literal history.

I can direct you to some Study Torahs that may mention things you may not have considered:

Robert Alter
Everett Fox
Robert Elliot Friedman

Read their commentaries. You may be surprised at the intricacies of the stories.

 

[Riverwolf]

Ask her priest. He will say that her sins put Jesus up there and that Eucharistic blood will cleanse her.

You assume she's Catholic.

Not all denominations have the Eucharist ritual. And, to tell you the truth, I've NEVER heard such a teaching.

 

[Riverwolf]

I suppose not. I've only been here a few days. We have Osiris worshippers hanging about?

Why do I feel that the world is turning out to be one large psych ward?

Believing in and/or worshiping a god does not automatically make you criminally insane, as if it's some sort of cursed practice.

 

[ChristineES]

What's that hanging on the cross in your church then?

There aren't any virgins on any Church I have ever attended. I am not a Catholic (if you are talking about Mary). It appears you know nothing at all about my faith.

 

[ChristineES]

I meant to say in my last post,that there is nothing on the crosses of any of the Churches I have ever attended. They were plain crosses alone.

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

I suppose not. I've only been here a few days. We have Osiris worshippers hanging about?

Why do I feel that the world is turning out to be one large psych ward?

No worries just sit back and enjoy the pretty colors man. :rainbow1:

There are a many varied belief here on this forum so my advice to you is never assume that someone doesn't follow a certain path because you will soon be proven wrong here.

I consider myself Pagan (which is a large umbrella term for a large category of belief systems) but only because my current beliefs fall closest to that label. I also have a tendency to loosely follow Discordianism which worships Eris the goddess of discord but one can never take Discordianism too seriously because then their doing it wrong.

FNORD!

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

I'd be interested to know who those scholars are. It's an interesting idea that I'd never heard before or considered. Just thinking about it now I can see where that would make sense. I'm not sure how "sin" and therefore separation from God / sacrifices to try to appease God would enter into it though.

I'd be interested to read what those scholars you mentioned have to say. Can you give me some names?

Joseph Campbell in The Power of Myth has some very good ideas about what the story of the garden means. Though they are different from the one that Riverwolf provided.

 

[slave2six]

Believing in and/or worshiping a god does not automatically make you criminally insane, as if it's some sort of cursed practice.

I never said anything about "criminally." Just insane (e.g. a: extreme folly or unreasonableness b: something utterly foolish or unreasonable)

 

[slave2six]

There aren't any virgins on any Church I have ever attended. I am not a Catholic (if you are talking about Mary). It appears you know nothing at all about my faith.

It appears that you don't. Jesus was "pure" and "unblemished" with regards to "sin". One of the definitions of a virgin is "a person who is inexperienced in a usually specified sphere of activity". Therefore, Jesus was a virgin with regards to sin (which is the core issue that your religion addresses) and because of this he was the only worthy sacrifice that was acceptable to your God. To put it another way, your God could not be satisfied until something truly pure was butchered. Beyond that, it was not merely something pure but allegedly his own offspring. It is like you conceiving a child for the sole purpose of killing it so that your other children can have a good relationship with you. That this does not trouble you is what I find troubling.

 

[slave2six]

I meant to say in my last post,that there is nothing on the crosses of any of the Churches I have ever attended. They were plain crosses alone.

Yes. A neutered symbol of what the original Church fathers held as sacred. Protestants don't technically qualify as "Christians" in the original sense of the term. They have shed themselves of all the sacraments and believe in "Me, My Bible and Jesus" which is rather pathetic theology even for Christians. If you took the trouble to read Cyprian, Ignatius, or Athenasius or any of the Church Fathers, I think you will find yourself wondering how it is that Christianity has devolved into weekly pep rallies with no substance to them.

 

[slave2six]

No worries just sit back and enjoy the pretty colors man. :rainbow1:

LOL!

There are a many varied belief here on this forum so my advice to you is never assume that someone doesn't follow a certain path because you will soon be proven wrong here.

I consider myself Pagan (which is a large umbrella term for a large category of belief systems) but only because my current beliefs fall closest to that label. I also have a tendency to loosely follow Discordianism which worships Eris the goddess of discord but one can never take Discordianism too seriously because then their doing it wrong.

FNORD!

My question is, why have a religious belief system at all? What is there to gain by it? I can see why someone would want to believe in a personal God because they simply want to have a Daddy who is watching out for them or perhaps they like the comfort of knowing that there is some intelligence behind all the chaos of life. But I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would give a flying rip about a God who just kinda threw this stuff together and isn't intimately involved in human beings' lives. What can possibly be gained from such belief? It seems quite irrational to me.

 

[Storm]

My question is, why have a religious belief system at all? What is there to gain by it? I can see why someone would want to believe in a personal God because they simply want to have a Daddy who is watching out for them or perhaps they like the comfort of knowing that there is some intelligence behind all the chaos of life. But I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would give a flying rip about a God who just kinda threw this stuff together and isn't intimately involved in human beings' lives. What can possibly be gained from such belief? It seems quite irrational to me.

If you believe it's true, is not the knowledge valuable in its own right? I don't want a sky daddy, I want to understand.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

My question is, why have a religious belief system at all? ... I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would give a flying rip about a God who just kinda threw this stuff together and isn't intimately involved in human beings' lives. What can possibly be gained from such belief? It seems quite irrational to me.

What is irrational is presuming that all religious belief systems are fundamentally opportunistic and then asserting that it is somehow irrational for one to infer/adopt a belief system simply because s/he believes it to reflect fundamental truths.

 

[Alceste]

Science supports the Christian concept.
Did you not hear about the study of
human DNA by which scientists have
concluded the entire human race came
from one man and woman?
Scientists cannot give you the name of
these two but Christianity can. They are
called Adam and Eve.

Hiya RomCat - are you interested in clarification of what DNA has actually shown? You've misinterpreted the "common ancestor" issue completely, but there's a thread around here somewhere that can help you.