Norway -one of the most anti semitic countries on earth

[Question_love_act]

It's full of Muslim immigrants.

So? Doesn't make it a cause of anti-semitism given the fact that most of the hate groups are not Muslim.

 

[kiwimac]

Good on 'em

 

[Flankerl]

God i hate jews and non-jews who cry about antisemitism the very second someone mentions their dislike for the State of Israel.

 

[Monotheist 101]

It is one of the only country that make it illegal for jews to slaughter a cow to make it kosher.

However, arabs can do it their method and it's legal.

Hey I have always wondered if Jews are allowed to eat Halal meat?

IMO and findings Muslims are allowed to eat Jewish Kosher meat because you pronounce the name of God at the time of sacrifice..

According to mainstream Islamic consensus any name referring to the True Monotheist God can be pronounced over the sacrificial animal..not just Allah..i.e I could say in the name of the Creator..and that would still be lawful to eat.

 

[Galen.Iksnudnard]

It's full of Muslim immigrants.

Remember those Israeli athletes who were threatened in Sweden too?

They're scared to offend Muslims, but they'll offend Jews all day, to please their Saudi masters.

This.

Sweden gets a lot of things right, such as say Gender Equality for instance, and they are progressive on a number of issues.

However kowtowing to the Muslims - a group which isn't exactly known for sharing Swedish values of tolerance and understanding - is one thing they're dead wrong on.

 

[LemonGrenade]

I sympathise, CMike, but only after having winced at the characterisation of an entire country based on what one man said, and what a relative handful of legislators wrote into law.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Bigotry is dead wrong and significantly contributes to the problem.

 

[mycorrhiza]

The original post is quite misleading. It wasn't Norway's current prime minister who said that, it was the guy who was prime minister in early to mid 1980s.

When it comes to halal and kosher slaughter, what I found is that they're illegal if they don't use anaesthesia first. So if the kosher slaughter is done with anaesthesia, I think it would be legal in Norway.

 

[Falvlun]

Regarding bans on ritual slaughter, I find it highly hypocritical seeing how poorly our food animals are treated as a matter of course.

However, Norway is not the only country to ban kosher slaughter: Luxemborg, Sweden, and Switzerland have as well.

The issue appears to be the general rule that animals must be stunned before slaughter, which is against kosher practices. Traditionally, halal practices also do not stun the animals, but apparently there is more leniency.

In Norway, Muslims do stun the animals before killing them in order to comply with Norwegian laws. This is likely why there is no ban on halal slaughter.

The halal slaughter procedure used by Nortura meets all requirements both set by the Qur'an and the Norwegian Food Safety Authority. This includes such requirements as that the slaughterer must be a Muslim, that the animal's head must face the Qibla, and the animal is blessed at the time of slaughter. Norwegian law requires that the animal is stunned before slaughter. This does not break halal rules, but is not the traditional method used by Muslims. The time between the stunning of the animal and the slaughter is about 20 seconds.

Alfathi Wiki

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

From the Jerusalem Post ...

An Israeli study on electro-convulsive therapy (ECT) for severely depressed or psychotic patients has apparently disproved the claim that the similar process of stunning animals before slaughter is humane and minimizes their suffering.

Prof. Rael Strous, a psychiatrist at Tel Aviv University’s Sackler Faculty of Medicine and the Be’er Ya’acov Mental Health Center, has just published an article on the subject in the journal Meat Science together with Bar-Ilan University researcher Dr. Ari Zivotofsky.

The researchers reached the conclusion that electric stunning of animals, often advocated as kinder than kosher slaughter, “is in fact cruel and barbaric,” as if one administered ECT without first giving patients sedation and/or general anesthesia.

The team studied ECT given to depressed patients – in which a strong electric shock is given under sedation and/or anesthesia to those who are not helped by conventional anti-depressive medication – as a comparison for the stunning of animals. This was unique research in which medical procedures used on humans were investigated to learn about the suffering of animals.

“Thus, introducing stunning, as we know from the experience in psychiatry on humans, defeats the objective of more humane slaughter,” they wrote. Animals that are inadequately stunned because of improperly positioned electrodes or other problems could suffer pain for a minute or more before losing consciousness, they said.

Strous said all leading Orthodox rabbinical arbiters around the world – except for a single rabbi in New Zealand – insist electrical stunning of animals before ritual slaughter is forbidden. In shechita, Jewish ritual slaughter of kosher animals, an extremely sharp knife is used to quickly sever a major blood vessel in the animal’s neck. This, the rabbis have long said, minimizes distress and pain to the animal as it loses a large amount of blood and consciousness very rapidly.

“Several European countries are introducing compulsory stunning prior to animal slaughter,” Strous told The Jerusalem Post. “This would in essence ban shechita for the first time since the Nazis in Europe.

The “stunning bill” was already passed in the lower house in the Netherlands, Strous said, “and only recently delayed in the upper house due to much lobbying – including, I am led to believe, with the help of academic input, such as our article.”

The article includes a description of ECT, in which electrodes are placed on the patient’s temples, after which a rapid burst of electric current of 70 to 170 volts is meted out. The mechanism by which the electricity “rearranges the brain cells” and provides relief to psychiatric disease is not fully understood but it is often very effective, at least for a while. It can even prevent psychiatric symptoms.

Without putting the patient “under,” ECT is considered a form of “medical torture.”

Patients who have been subjected to it without general anesthesia have reportedly suffered much more anxiety and trauma than they had before.

The authors show that “reversible electrical stunning,” very commonly employed in commercial abattoirs abroad, is very similar to ECT given without general anesthetic. Stunned animals behave as if they had an epileptic seizure, their bodies rigid with muscle contraction.

But it is reversible stunning, and they do not all lose consciousness.

The amount of voltages varies according to the type of animal, techniques used and the individual creature’s size and behavior. The animals going to slaughter can thus regain consciousness and then face the knife that will kill them.

Stunning a chicken, they write, is more problematic than in cows, sheep or other animals.

A common stunning method for poultry is to give them an “electrical water bath through the birds to the metal shackle.”

Every component must be adjusted perfectly to ensure a proper stun. There has to be a solid electrical ground, water height must perfectly match the bird size, and there must be some form of isolation at the beginning to pressure pre-stun electrical shocks.

In practice, the authors write, these conditions are often not met. The stunning process can also cause blood blemishes on the meat, broken bones and painful muscle contractions in the birds, which can still sense what is happening.

I know of no response to the above.

 

[Falvlun]

From the Jerusalem Post ...I know of no response to the above.

I agree that stunning the animal is likely not any more humane than not. But I don't think a blanket anti-stun rule is specifically anti-Jew or necessarily anti-religious. It's probably a well-meaning attempt to care for animals that appears like a common sense approach but has no real science to back it up.

 

[Flankerl]

Hey I have always wondered if Jews are allowed to eat Halal meat?

Nope.
Kosher may be Halal but Halal aint Kosher.

So if the kosher slaughter is done with anaesthesia, I think it would be legal in Norway.

But then it isnt kosher meat.

 

[mycorrhiza]

But then it isnt kosher meat.

But that still doesn't mean that the law is directed against banning kosher slaughter, but rather banning slaughter without anaesthesia so the original post is still misleading.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I agree that stunning the animal is likely not any more humane than not. But I don't think a blanket anti-stun rule is specifically anti-Jew or necessarily anti-religious.

The OP is an unfortunate rant that does a disservice to the question of kashrut and a disservice to the discussion of the very real problem of antisemitism in Norway.

 

[CMike]

Somehow I am not surprised you don't care about the hatred toward Jews in Norway.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Somehow I am not surprised you don't care about the hatred toward Jews in Norway.

... a disservice to the discussion of the very real problem of antisemitism in Norway.

And I am not surprised that you resort to ugly distortion and ad hominem.

 

[xkatz]

I am not surprised, seeing that Norway gave Obama and the EU Nobel peace prizes

Edit: Not to say that Obama or the EU are anti-semitic.

 

[Falvlun]

The OP is an unfortunate rant that does a disservice to the question of kashrut and a disservice to the discussion of the very real problem of antisemitism in Norway.

That sounds like a reasonable synopsis. What do you think are some valid examples of anti-semitism in Norway?

 

[idea]

It seems like everyone is forced to take either a pro-Arabic side, or a pro-Jewish side, if you agree with one, you are supposed to hate the other. This is very unfortunate. If only the Israeli-Arabic conflict could be resolved both antisemitism and arabophobia would be greatly diminished.

 

[CMike]

I want to pick up the points of Norway's rabid anti semitism.

1) The prime minister criticized Obama's appointment of Rahm Emanuel for one reason he is a jew.

From the article:

Consider former Prime Minister Kare Willock's reaction to President Obama's selection of Rahm Emanuel as his first chief of staff: "It does not look too promising, he has chosen a chief of staff who is Jewish." Mr. Willock didn't know anything about Mr. Emanuel's views—he based his criticism on the sole fact that Mr. Emanuel is a Jew. Perhaps unsurprisingly, fewer than 1,000 Jews live in Norway today.

2) The laws of kashurut are specific to jews.

Also slaughtering an animal to make it kosher is done very humanely.

You must use a sharp blade with no nicks. It's must be done in one motion at the jugular of the cow. This is done to minimize pain.

Of course moslems are allowed to practice Hallel and slaughter their cows the way they want.

That Norway made it illegal greatly impacts jews. They can't eat meat that is not kosher.

We had in our synagogue (shul) the chabad rabbi of Norway.

He spoke about the impact this has on jews.

They import meat that is kosher, however, the amount they can import legally is very small quantity. So planning for a big holiday is done months in advance. It's very difficult.

Jews should not have to undergo should treatment to practice their religion.

3) The article by Alan Dershowitz shows the hatred toward Israel.

Dershowitz is a speaker that usually commands big money to speak.

No Norway university would let him speak. They readily have american speakers who are anti-Israel speak. However, Dershowitiz has a very centrist position, that encompasses two states, and no University would let him speak.

Only one Univeristy wanted him to speak. That was only about the OJ Simpson trial and only if the promised not to mention Israel.

Ask yourself why?

3) During the time of the nazis the Norweigan government cooperated with the nazis in rounding up jews for mass murder. Whereas in most other countries the nazis went themselves to get the jews, the Norway police helped do the dirty work.

That said there were Norweigian civilians who helped the jews, but the government was evil.

The Destruction of the Norwegian Jews "The German Occupation of Europe" http://www.HolocaustResearchProject.org

The Norwegian King Haakon VII and his Labor government, fleeing before advancing German troops, refused to cave in to Nazi demands. In Oslo, only the followers of Vidkun Quisling (the former Defense Minister and leader of the local Nazi party, the NS), called for a capitulation to the invaders.

​

Vidkun Quisling​

On 1 February 1942, he took power in Norway as the Minister President, and set about encouraging Nazi values and promoting the German cause in Norway. German authorities under the leadership of Reichskommissar Josef Terboven, put Norwegian civilian authorities under his control. This included various branches of Norwegian police, including the district sheriffs, criminal police, and order police.

The Jewish community of Norway was hit hard by the policies of the Nazis authorities and first anti-Jewish measure was introduced just a month after the beginning of the occupation, in May 1940, when radios of Jews were confiscated. In October 1941 registration of Jewish property started; a number of Jewish owned firms and businesses were confiscated.​

The programme of anti-Jewish measures continued with the stamping of Jewish identity cards which began in January 1942, Jews were to have a red “J” stamped in their identification papers. During this period there were some arrests of Jewish men , who were sent to prisons and labor camps inside Norway.but this did not lead to the mass arrests of the 1,700 Jews, of which the majority were refugees from the Reich, concentrated in Oslo.

​

Quisling appointed a 'Liquidation Board of Confiscated Jewish Assets.' Jewish households and businesses were treated as bankrupt, thus enabling their assets to be sold. The Jewish estates were liquidated, but continued to exist as legal entities, thus permitting expenses to be levied against them. This practice remained in effect even after the war, when a democratic government was established again in Norway.
"The belongings of the estates were distributed according to the interests of the Quisling regime. All gold and silver objects and wristwatches were given to the German security police. The assets of Jews originally from Germany, Austria, and Czechoslovakia were given to the German authorities. By the end of the war, the 'Liquidation Board' had used approximately 30 percent of the value of the Jewish properties for its own administration.
A reception camp for Jews was soon established at Berg, near Tonsberg, and during June 1942 a general registration for Jews took place, and the confiscation of all Jewish property was completed by October 1942.

Deportation of Norwegian Jews ​

On the 2 September 1942 the Chief Rabbi of Norway, Julius Samuel, was ordered to report to the Gestapo. his wife Henriette Samuel urged him to go into hiding, or to flee, but he told her: “As Rabbi, I cannot abandon my community in this perilous hour.” He was then arrested, together with 208 Norwegian men, they were sent to an internment camp at Berg, south of Oslo.

Then on the 25 October the police, ably assisted by the Hirden, the National Socialist militia founded by Vidkun Quisling, seized some 209 Jewish men and boys over sixteen years of age.

They were sent by sea from Norway to Stettin on the Nord-Deutscher Lloyd steamer Donau and then continued their journey by rail to the death camp at Auschwitz-Birkenau in Poland. Then on the 26 November the Norwegian police assisted by the Hirden, the National Socialist Militia founded by Vidkun Quisling, carried out another round up of Jews in Oslo.​

4) Other than Finland, Norway is perhaps the most anti-semitic country in Europe.

They should be ashamed of themsleves.