CMike
Well-Known Member
I pointed out the blatant anti-semitism of Norway, and you called it an "unfortunate rant."
That clearly shows that you don't care about hatred toward jews.
I do.
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Norway -one of the most anti semitic countries on earth
- Thread starter CMike
- Start date
I pointed out the blatant anti-semitism of Norway, and you called it an "unfortunate rant."
That clearly shows that you don't care about hatred toward jews.
I do.
CMike
Well-Known Member
It doesn't matter.
The nazis didn't try to exterminate the jews becuause of the Israeli-Arabic conflict.
There are groups that hate jews because they exist.
There are also jews who don't care and even contribute to it.
CMike
Well-Known Member
- Sort of like the former prime minister criticizing Obama for appointing a jew, only because he is a jew
- Not allowing jews to kosher their meat
- Not allowing pro-Israel speakers to speak in universities
CMike
Well-Known Member
I too am curious.
Why don't you point out the "very real problem of anstisemitism in Norway" that I missed, and the "question of kashrut" that I missed?
Also how my "unfortunate rant" about the way Norway treats Jews is an "unfortunate rant"?
:beach:
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the piece by Dershowitz doesn't say anything about Kosher slaughtering. So there is no point in mix and matching different topics and trying to present it as a wholesome reality.
Now, mind you I'm not saying that there may not be double standards in some of Europe's countries when it comes to Kosher slaughter in the so called guise of humanitarianism towards animals, as their non Jewish majority population may practice real cruelty towards animals both in the food industry, or even in a prevalent leisure and sports culture (from hunting tourism, local hunting for sports, or even bull fighting). However, it is worth noting that even in Israel the Kosher institution has many foes. And no, it's not because these Jews are self hating, but it's because the Kashrut institutions are considered corrupt, old fashioned and just bad for business in general. An institution which needs to be phased out. Kosher slaughter specifically lost the image of a so called more humanitarian killing the more religious people tried to attach to it.
I am an Israeli Jew. Jewish by culture, and an atheist by religion. I don't need the Kosher institutions. For Israelis like me they are a liability. They kill the businesses me and many other locals tend to like and they limit our options when we go food shopping.
Now it's worth noting, that I understand that in a Jewish state there is a desire to keep Jewish dietary practices privileged to a degree. But that degree is the point in which the Kosher eating population has free access to Kosher food, once it means that I have limited options as a result because of that conservative population my democratic rights are being violated by someone else's monopoly.
In the city I live in, which is close to Tel Aviv (in itself a bastion for Non Kosher cuisine), this battles rages on daily basis as successful restaurants which offer non Kosher food (including pork and sea food) draw crowds of people, but at the same time big local chains who offer non Kosher food get closed because of pressure from the orthodox community.
So if the battle has not been decided in Israel, the Jewish state. Don't be so quick to judge the motives of other nations. And again, I don't count that their motives are 100% pure.
CMike
Well-Known Member
So you are saying it should be okay for Norway to make it illegal to kosher an animal, and make it legal to import kosher meat other than small quantities because it would be bad for Norweigan business?
I still don't get the logic in that.
There are relatively few jews, much less orthodox jews, in Israel.
How would it not making illegal effect business?
If anything orthodox jews can't buy kosher meat in Norway. Therefore, they have to import, which would effect Norway's business.
Correct?
Also the title of the thread isn't the Dershowitz article, it's Norway's anti-semitism.
I still don't get the logic in that.
There are relatively few jews, much less orthodox jews, in Israel.
How would it not making illegal effect business?
If anything orthodox jews can't buy kosher meat in Norway. Therefore, they have to import, which would effect Norway's business.
Correct?
Also the title of the thread isn't the Dershowitz article, it's Norway's anti-semitism.
CMike, you again brought up the fact that kosher slaughter is not allowed but halal slaughter is as evidence of anti-semitism. Did you perhaps miss mine and others' posts where it was pointed out that it is the slaughter of animals without first stunning them that is banned, and that Muslims are indeed stunning the animals in compliance with the law, since halal rules are more lenient in this area?
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
I didn't say anything about Norwegian business, I discussed the Kosher institution in Israel which is what I am more familiar with. The main point being that many Israeli Jews are not fans of the Kosher system, therefore it is not surprising that European gentiles are much less so. In Israel the Kosher institutions are bad for many businesses because of the limitations they impose on them and because of the money they collect for what I believe are virtual services at the end of the day. It doesn't make any difference to me if the food they serve me is Kosher or not. In Israel our fight is different than in Norway.
Let me reassure you that many Jews in Israel do not consider the orthodox as nothing more than a cult. So we can argue all night here about who is a real Jew and who is not.
Well there are several ways this could play out. In any case it would be good if you post some concrete sources about the Kosher system, Kosher slaughter, and the Norwegian legal attitude towards the two, if there are sources like this in this thread I missed them.
You included it in your OP, which is the post to refer to when discussing a topic of a thread. The title is usually not even an abstract.
CMike
Well-Known Member
A Norweigan prime minister said it all.
SWC Urges Norway to Rescind Longstanding Ban on Shechita (Kosher Slaughter of Animals) | Simon Wiesenthal Center
During the Parliamentary debate preceding the 1929 vote, Jens Hunseid, a future Norwegian Prime Minister, said, "We have no obligation to deliver our domestic animals to the cruelties of the Jews, we have not invited the Jews to this country, and we have no obligation to provide the Jews animals to their religious orgies."
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Shalom ...
Not really. It shows that the original law was anti-Jew. But the current ban, that is apparently common in many Scandanavian countries, is against killing animals without stunning them first. This ban applies equally to Jews and Muslims.
The reason why Muslims are permitted their ritual slaughter is because they are following the rules: they have agreed/ are able to stun their animals first.
It is not, as you claim, a conspiracy that mysteriously only affects Jews and not Muslims.
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
So lets say he doesnt like jews. So what? You think he was voted into power because he declared his dislike for jews when he ran for office?
Actually not that surprising. You see it from the jewish perspective. But try the gentile(except the muslims) side of the story.
For them our kind of slaughter means lots of blood. Animals still moving after their throat was slit.
It doesnt matter if the animal still struggles or doesnt feel anything anymore. Its just not a very marketable practice and simply foreign to gentiles(except muslims).
As a matter of fact kosher slaughter is by law illegal in germany because its against the rights of the animals. But its still done(at one single place) and no one does anything against it.
Why? The Shoah.
Yeah thats the answer. You might not like it but its the truth.
Thats rather political and basically has nothing to do with Judaism.
CMike
Well-Known Member
The prime minister said this at the start of the law.
It is the same laws.
It clearly shows Norway's hatred toward Jews.
Also slaughtering an animal using kosher methods is humane.
Making it illegal deprives orthodox Jews from eating meat.
That is in humane.
CMike
Well-Known Member
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Assad91
Shi'ah Ali
Then get with the program and start stunning the animal first, or get used to being a vegan. Muslims there got used to it.
Excuse me, but since when has a single man or a few men represented an entire country?
If I'm going to believe accusations that Norway is extremely antisemetic, I'm going to need to see lots and lots of examples of this manifesting in the Norwegian population, AND a majority social opinion against Jews/Judaism. A few laws that were originally antisemetic but apparently aren't deliberately so, anymore, or a few antisemetic statements by some people who wear suits, ain't gonna cut it.
If I'm going to believe accusations that Norway is extremely antisemetic, I'm going to need to see lots and lots of examples of this manifesting in the Norwegian population, AND a majority social opinion against Jews/Judaism. A few laws that were originally antisemetic but apparently aren't deliberately so, anymore, or a few antisemetic statements by some people who wear suits, ain't gonna cut it.
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gerrywilson
New Member
Why Norway is anti sementism. A country should be secular. Every one and community should be equal.
Well, I see that you are not interested in an honest discussion. Have a good day!