Now Belgium bans burqa in public places

[Cypress]

Nope. That's Sunstone's stance as well.

I say however,
It's the MEN who should cover their eyes,
if they can't handle looking at a woman's face,
hands, arms, legs, WHATEVER
without feeling inclined to "sin",
then it's their responsibility to rectify
the weakness of THEIR OWN sex.

Don't demand that other people sacrifice themSelves
for the sake of YOUR OWN WEAKNESS.

:yes: exactly.

 

[Badran]

Don't demand that other people sacrifice themSelves
for the sake of YOUR OWN WEAKNESS.

Who is demanding anything? How is this even relevant?

The point is, once again, is about the legal ban, thats it. Your own impression of why women wear this, and how is it like to wear it, is not grounds to ban it.

 

[Badran]

Wondering how many women make this fashion decision themselves and for how many it is made by others.

Wondering how a woman who does not want to wear the burqa can stand up against her father, her brother(s) and possibly her mother.

Yes, like have been said more than once, some women obviously are forced to wear it. So what shall we do? Force women to unwear it? Including the ones who willingly wear it? Or try to help them be able to make their own choices?

Not to mention that most of the women who are being forced to wear it, are not in the countries which proposes this ban.

 

[.lava]

Who is demanding anything?

Your own impression of why women wear this, and how is it like to wear it, is not grounds to ban it.

:clap

they should learn to leave us Muslim women alone. just because we don't live by their standards does not mean we are suffering. geez what a ignorance and arrogance

.

 

[blackout]

I never said to ban it.

I was simply addressing the men
who FORCE their women to cover their faces.

We ALL know they exist.

 

[.lava]

We ALL know they exist.

and sadly, that is ALL you know

.

 

[blackout]

and sadly, that is ALL you know

.

You are of course free to jump to any conclusions you like about me.

What I do and don't know about veils and devotion to a monotheist god
is something you know nothing about.

You would be quite suprised, who I used to be.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

As I always say: Burqa for men!

Ninja outfit?

Sorry, I had to.

 

[Cypress]

Ninja outfit?

Sorry, I had to.

Don't think a burqa is useful in Ninja activities, too unpractical.

 

[Tiapan]

are you seriously comparing the swastika to a burqa? the swastika represents hatred to an entire race of people; the burqa represents what? ultra-conservative Muslims. it doesn't represent hate. oppression is subjective, the swastika isn't.

Ultra conservative muslims ARE neonazis

Cheers

 

[Badran]

I never said to ban it.

I was simply addressing the men
who FORCE their women to cover their faces.

Thats good to know. The problem is (or was) that this thread is talking about banning it, and you were earlier discussing other aspects of the covering, including how it feels like to wear it, what activities could be done...... Which is very easily to seem like you're coming to conclusions based on that.

We ALL know they exist.

And not once have anybody implied otherwise, on the contrary, its been made clear too many times.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

That is frightening.

How can this be legal?

If you can pass the driving eye test comprised of reading car number plates , it is legal. Quality of vision or peripheral vision are not tested.

 

[beenie]

Nope. That's Sunstone's stance as well.

I say however,
It's the MEN who should cover their eyes,
if they can't handle looking at a woman's face,
hands, arms, legs, WHATEVER
without feeling inclined to "sin",
then it's their responsibility to rectify
the weakness of THEIR OWN sex.

Don't demand that other people sacrifice themSelves
for the sake of YOUR OWN WEAKNESS.

i see your point, but it really is irrelevant to the BAN of the burqa. why don't you tell us who you "used to be" so we can understand why you are so angered by some women wearing the burqa?

i could not take oppression from family and oppression from government equal. when you're oppressed by government you basicaly have no place to ask for help. but at the end, it is always women who pay the price which is very disturbing

.

isn't it sad? women pay the price in every society...even western society where there is the trend of thinness and near-nakedness to be beautiful. oppression comes in all forms.

:clap

they should learn to leave us Muslim women alone. just because we don't live by their standards does not mean we are suffering. geez what a ignorance and arrogance

.

agreed.

I never said to ban it.

I was simply addressing the men
who FORCE their women to cover their faces.

We ALL know they exist.

so do we. i don't think there is a single Muslim on this forum that has denied this point. i agree that men are able to waive off their responsibilities, but again, that's a whole other topic.

Ultra conservative muslims ARE neonazis

Cheers

a few, perhaps; but generalizing is unfair.

once again: yes, there are men who force their wives, daughters, etc., to wear the burqa. it is OPPRESSIVE and WRONG. but banning the burqa based on the European view of how women should dress is also OPPRESSIVE and WRONG.

...and i'll state it again: dictating what women must or must not wear, either by force or ban, is OPPRESSION and it's WRONG. it is just more proof that society doesn't trust women to decide for themselves what to wear and not wear. one is not more acceptable than the other. PERIOD.

 

[.lava]

You are of course free to jump to any conclusions you like about me.

What I do and don't know about veils and devotion to a monotheist god
is something you know nothing about.

You would be quite suprised, who I used to be.

it would not be surprising if you were full of surprises. but this is irrelevant or maybe i was not clear enough. i was referring to your knowledge of Islam, Islamic societies, our cultures ..etc.

.

 

[.lava]

Ultra conservative muslims ARE neonazis

Cheers

oh yeah? is that because they are Muslims or because they are fascists?

.

 

[Tiapan]

oh yeah? is that because they are Muslims or because they are fascists?

.

Define National Socialism

Cheers

 

[Darkness]

Define National Socialism

Cheers

National Socialism is a political philosophy that evolved out of conflict with Orthodox Marxism. When Orthodox Marxism's predictions failed to come to pass, reformist thinkers such as Eduard Bernstein in Germany and Jean Jaurès in France became the standard bearers for a break-away socialism known as democratic revisionism (democratic socialism, or social democracy). The German SPD was torn over whether to keep Orthodox Marxism or democratic revisionism; however, the right seized on the growing discontent with laissez-faire capitalism and took from the socialist movement the ideas in the primacy of politics and embedded markets. National Socialism was fuelled by racial prejudices, a belief in the state as the necessary driver of solidarity in society and a staunch nationalist belief. It was a complete rejection of the old liberal order, and a right-wing counter to the growing left-wing social democratic movement. National socialism is essentially the dark, ugly version of social democracy.

 

[.lava]

Define National Socialism

Cheers

well, i am not very good at defining political terms but Darkness explained it good enough.

so, are you going to answer that simple question i asked or not?

.

 

[kai]

:clap

they should learn to leave us Muslim women alone. just because we don't live by their standards does not mean we are suffering. geez what a ignorance and arrogance

.

Hi Lava

The thing is if you go and live in say Belgium, then your kind of expected to live to their standards.

 

[zenzero]

Friends.
Personal understanding is that one should live in harmony with the outside world and that is what religion is all about. The moment we stop to evolve our growth stops.
If the country one lives require a certain way of covering [clothes] one should accept it and move ahead instead of continuing debating to stop themselves and others from evolving.
Love & rgds