Now Belgium bans burqa in public places

[Panda]

They breath just fine nameless, they didn't complain. Once again this kind of arguments are no way near any kind of grounds to dictate to women what to wear.

There was a travel program on recently where a woman was going round the Middle East and she tried to wear the burqa and lasted a matter of minutes before she took it off because she found it difficult to breath. Though that could be more psychological than physical due to not liking to have her face covered. I know when I have worn a Halloween costume that include a thin breathable material face covering I could only stand it for so long before I had to take it off to breath, though again I wouldn't rule out psychological thing not liking to have my face covered.

 

[Panda]

Could you clarify a little bit on that?

The law dictates I must cover certain parts of my body when I step outside. I am already being told I must wear something.

 

[Badran]

There was a travel program on recently where a woman was going round the Middle East and she tried to wear the burqa and lasted a matter of minutes before she took it off because she found it difficult to breath. Though that could be more psychological than physical due to not liking to have her face covered. I know when I have worn a Halloween costume that include a thin breathable material face covering I could only stand it for so long before I had to take it off to breath, though again I wouldn't rule out psychological thing not liking to have my face covered.

Well like you clarified the psychological state might have a role. Also the women who willingly wear it, don't complain. Or are okay with it if they do complain and i'm not aware. So it would come down once again to this being their choice.

 

[Badran]

The law dictates I must cover certain parts of my body when I step outside. I am already being told I must wear something.

Yes but this is for both men and women, and its the only thing that all or (most?) countries have. I'm not sure if there is a country where its okay to wake around naked in, but i think its safe to say that in at least the majority of countries its not. Being naked or showing certain parts of your body is a different situation from this though.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

for eg: breathing fresh air, as mention in my last post

If I dont wanna eat in your country, is the state going to force me to do so?

 

[Panda]

Yes but this is for both men and women, and its the only thing that all or (most?) countries have. I'm not sure if there is a country where its okay to wake around naked in, but i think its safe to say that in at least the majority of countries its not. Being naked or showing certain parts of your body is a different situation from this though.

How is that any different? It is still dictating what things people can and can not wear?

Just so you know I am against the ban on the burqa as I see no need to ban it but I still feel we do arbitrarily decide what is and what isn't acceptable to wear.

 

[nameless]

If I dont wanna eat in your country, is the state going to force me to do so?

this is exactly the same issue some muslim women has, they dont like something, but they are forced to do, thus their freedom is hindered. Banning those is the only solution to preserve basic freedom.

 

[Badran]

How is that any different? It is still dictating what things people can and can not wear?

Just so you know I am against the ban on the burqa as I see no need to ban it but I still feel we do arbitrarily decide what is and what isn't acceptable to wear.

Okay, i understand what you're saying, and glad to hear you're against the ban because there is no reason to do so.

And that is exactly what its all about and what would possibly make a difference between this situation and the nakedness situation. As it all comes down to why do we want to dictate to others what to wear, if there is a good reason, a necessity, it would be okay.

The reason i think the nakedness situation is different is because the arguments takes different forms. Usually including that people are deeply offended or hurt in someway when they see certain parts of other people's body. Also, i do wonder how would it affect kids if they walk around seeing these kind of stuff. To be honest though, my mind is not made up about the nakedness thing. It doesn't bother me much though because it is on both men and women, so there is no discrimination in that against a certain gender.

Its kind of a given, that most people in different cultures and societies and countries would be extremely bothered by it. I mean mostly women and children would be the ones bothered to see these things. Although it is of course very possible that we would be bothered by it because we're not used to it.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

this is exactly the same issue some muslim women has, they dont like something, but they are forced to do, thus their freedom is hindered.

How did you know? Presumption? Or have you actually talked to one of them?

I suggest you ask a Muslim female member on the forums called Fullyveiled Muslimah as a first step. I know hundreds of them, but they speak arabic so it wont help.

Banning those is the only solution to preserve basic freedom.

Why do you think they manifested against that law? Shouldnt they be happy and thankful?

 

[nameless]

They breath just fine nameless, they didn't complain. .

so do some of them not covers the face with the permission of their husband/other males. If husband is strict on that, they suffer.

Once again this kind of arguments are no way near any kind of grounds to dictate to women what to wear.

sorry badran, but i feel dressings should not affect the freedom.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

so do some of them not covers the face with the permission of their husband/other males. If husband is strict on that, they suffer.

Why should they suffer? Cant they just change husbands?

 

[Badran]

so do some of them not covers the face with the permission of their husband/other males. If husband is strict on that, they suffer.

Could you rephrase, i don't understand what you mean.

sorry badran, but i feel dressings should not affect the freedom.

Yes, freedom shouldn't be affected. We should stop some men from forcing some women to wear something. How does us doing the exact same thing make it okay then?

 

[nameless]

Why should they suffer? Cant they just change husbands?

as mentioned before, the breathing trouble. They had to suffer if their husband insist on that.

 

[Panda]

Okay, i understand what you're saying, and glad to hear you're against the ban because there is no reason to do so.

As long as they are willing to show there face for security purposes or if an establishment does not allow people to have their faces covered. I am not in favour of banning them though I am also not in favour of them getting special allowances. If there is somewhere where I must have my face uncovered for whatever reason then they should have to as well.

And that is exactly what its all about and what would possibly make a difference between this situation and the nakedness situation. As it all comes down to why do we want to dictate to others what to wear, if there is a good reason, a necessity, it would be okay.

The reason i think the nakedness situation is different is because the arguments takes different forms. Usually including that people are deeply offended or hurt in someway when they see certain parts of other people's body. Also, i do wonder how would it affect kids if they walk around seeing these kind of stuff. To be honest though, my mind is not made up about the nakedness thing. It doesn't bother me much though because it is on both men and women, so there is no discrimination in that against a certain gender.

It is meant to be healthy for children, countless studies have shown how nudist resorts are meant to be good for you. Encourage people not to just view the other sex as sex objects and removes the stigma attached to our bodies, its also meant to be good for body confidence etc.

Its kind of a given, that most people in different cultures and societies and countries would be extremely bothered by it. I mean mostly women and children would be the ones bothered to see these things. Although it is of course very possible that we would be bothered by it because we're not used to it.

Exactly people are not used to it so they don't like it! Exactly the same issue as we are having here with the burqa people aren't used to it so they don't like it.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

as mentioned before, the breathing trouble. They had to suffer if their husband insist on that.

Thats not what I meant. I meant if their husbands insist on them wearing it, and they ( women) dont want it. Why dont they change husbands since they live in a very liberal society? ( As if we werent allowed to divorce in Islamic countries , but anyway I know what people think)

 

[Badran]

As long as they are willing to show there face for security purposes or if an establishment does not allow people to have their faces covered. I am not in favour of banning them though I am also not in favour of them getting special allowances. If there is somewhere where I must have my face uncovered for whatever reason then they should have to as well.

I agree.

It is meant to be healthy for children, countless studies have shown how nudist resorts are meant to be good for you. Encourage people not to just view the other sex as sex objects and removes the stigma attached to our bodies, its also meant to be good for body confidence etc.

Exactly people are not used to it so they don't like it! Exactly the same issue as we are having here with the burqa people aren't used to it so they don't like it.

Thats why i can't make up my mind. While i feel its not a great idea, i still can't raise any serious arguments against it. And there doesn't seem to be enough grounds to force people about this issue.

 

[nameless]

Thats not what I meant. I meant if their husbands insist on them wearing it, and they ( women) dont want it. Why dont they change husbands since they live in a very liberal society? ( As if we werent allowed to divorce in Islamic countries , but anyway I know what people think)

changing husband is not that silly, fatima .... they should also consider many other factors. They may opt covering face, since it would fit better to their situation than divorcing husband.

 

[Panda]

Thats why i can't make up my mind. While i feel its not a great idea, i still can't raise any serious arguments against it. And there doesn't seem to be enough grounds to force people about this issue.

Sounds familiar except in the case of the burqa people seem to have found enough grounds to force an issue out of it.

 

[Badran]

Sounds familiar except in the case of the burqa people seem to have found enough grounds to force an issue out of it.

But if being naked was alright for everyone who wants to do it, i wouldn't propose nor support a proposal to ban people from doing just that, because i know my feelings towards it are irrelevant. Either there is a reason, or there is not.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

changing husband is not that silly, fatima .... they should also consider many other factors. They may opt covering face, since it would fit better to their situation than divorcing husband.

Then what complain after that?
If you're married and your husband tells you to do X thing, and you really really hate it, you'll have two options :

1) Either divorce
2) Or you love your husband and do that thing only to please him and stay with him

Now Im presuming that you hate it, what about if you like it and everyone thinks you're doing it because your husband want you to do it?

And still you didnt answer wether all your thoughts posted are only presumptions or did you really ever talked to one of these ladies to see wether they are forced or not?

Best regards