Now that the FDA has approved the vaccine has it changed your mind?

[Wandering Monk]

But that isn't what MAGA stands for.
Make
America
Great
Again

Again?
That implies things in the past were "Great" Back in the good old days.

The good old days when slavery flourished?
The good old days when blacks were prohibited from voting?
The good old days when everyone prayed to Jesus in school?
The good old days where Jews and Catholics were prohibited from joining the rich people's country clubs?
The good old days when women were not allowed to get an abortion?

Specifically, which good old days are you referring to?

The good old days when half your kids died before age five? Hey, but people went to church regularly, right, so it's all good!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Because the side effects of covid are objectively worse.

It's the adverse effects that are just as or worse than COVID itself. Side effects like headache and fever and chills (well, depending), to many isn't that big a deal.

They do. But the actually medically exempt are such a small percentage of the population it won't meaningfully effect the transition rate assuming everyone else was vaccinated. The 40-50% of the population that currently CHOOSES to remain unvaccinated for no medical reason does however affect the transmission rate in a meaningful way. The goal was originally 80% but ideally higher than that would be better.

It wont, but it does make the debate more political. Its almost 80% in the states. So far translated 73% so far. Map: This is how many adults in the U.S. have not been vaccinated That was August 23rd though.

 

[Friend of Mara]

It's the adverse effects that are just as or worse than COVID itself. Side effects like headache and fever and chills (well, depending), to many isn't that big a deal.

I just ran through it in the previous post but the chances of getting a major side effect is next to nothing. The chances of having negative effects due to the illness is fairly high. Under no math or calcuation is a healthy person getting a better deal by not being vaccinated.

It wont, but it does make the debate more political. Its almost 80% in the states. So far translated 73% so far. Map: This is how many adults in the U.S. have not been vaccinated That was August 23rd though.

In total the us is only about 60% vaccinated. And notice at the very least that the states that have much higher rates of vaccination are also experiencing less breakthrough cases. Pretty cool huh?

 

[ElishaElijah]

But that isn't what MAGA stands for.
Make
America
Great
Again

Again?
That implies things in the past were "Great" Back in the good old days.

The good old days when slavery flourished?
The good old days when blacks were prohibited from voting?
The good old days when everyone prayed to Jesus in school?
The good old days where Jews and Catholics were prohibited from joining the rich people's country clubs?
The good old days when women were not allowed to get an abortion?

Specifically, which good old days are you referring to?

That’s a perverted and wrong view and more like a “baiting” comment but it’s comical now seen as we need the vaccine card under the “Build back Better” and we have through the roof inflation and trusting the Taliban for security and safe passage. MAGA was rejecting the bad unfair agreements we had with China and other Countries, we also had record unemployment in the US before Covid, businesses and people were flourishing and Trump worked out better trade deals for the US. I don’t see any current Democrat policy that is pro business or pro growth, oppressive and bigger government is what we have.

 

[Moonjuice]

I completely disagree with the last sentence. It's no different from laws against drunken driving or speeding.

It is not like seatbelt laws. If you don't wear a seatbelt and smash your head into the steering wheel, I really don't care. If you drive drunk and endanger other people, I do care, and so should all rational civilized people.

Please explain to me how you can catch Covid if you are taking all the proper precautions? It's impossible.

If you are vaccinated, if you stay at least 12 feet away from all other people, if you avoid all small, enclosed areas with other people, if you wear a NIOSH approved N95 respirator mask, or if you stay 100% isolated from all human contact all together, you can never catch Covid. These are the facts. There is no way a person with Covid can infect you, unless you are willing to risk getting infected - the risk is on you. This is what I mean about being 100% responsible. If you are not willing to protect yourself 100%, you have no one to blame for catching Covid except yourself.

This is nothing like drunk driving (which is illegal). You may have zero choice in a drunk driving accident, where a drunk driver crashes into you. You have complete choice to not catch Covid or how much you are willing to risk catching it.

 

[ElishaElijah]

So yeah. Unless you have a medical reason as diagnosed by your doctor to not get the vaccine you should get it. Overwhelmingly. You have a much higher chance of catching covid and experiencing worse effects than if you didn't.

A very sound argument against vaccine.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

A very sound argument against vaccine.

Excellent argument

 

[Kooky]

But that isn't what MAGA stands for.
Make
America
Great
Again

Again?
That implies things in the past were "Great" Back in the good old days.

The good old days when slavery flourished?
The good old days when blacks were prohibited from voting?
The good old days when everyone prayed to Jesus in school?
The good old days where Jews and Catholics were prohibited from joining the rich people's country clubs?
The good old days when women were not allowed to get an abortion?

Specifically, which good old days are you referring to?

My impression of that kind of politicized nostalgia is that it never actually recalls a factually existing time and place from the real historical past; in many cases, nostalgia seems to be borne out of a longing after an idealized, better society - a society which, in that form, never actually existed. It is a rejection of the present in pursuit of a dream, not a view grounded in anything resembling reality.

In a way, I would argue, it is a misdirected form of utopianism; but instead of striving to build a better future, political nostalgia projects aim to actively undermine any such efforts, so they can instead continue to live in a rotten present that allows them to dream of the olden times when everything used to be better.

 

[Friend of Mara]

A very sound argument against vaccine.

Sounds like a sound argument. She speaks very eloquently. However the official data and majority of physicians disagree with here. I will quote directly from the CDC website.

• Unvaccinated people remain the greatest concern: The greatest risk of transmission is among unvaccinated people who are much more likely to get infected, and therefore transmit the virus. Fully vaccinated people get COVID-19 (known as breakthrough infections) less often than unvaccinated people. People infected with the Delta variant, including fully vaccinated people with symptomatic breakthrough infections, can transmit the virus to others. CDC is continuing to assess data on whether fully vaccinated people with asymptomatic breakthrough infections can transmit the virus.
• Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others. However, vaccinated people appear to spread the virus for a shorter time: For prior variants, lower amounts of viral genetic material were found in samples taken from fully vaccinated people who had breakthrough infections than from unvaccinated people with COVID-19. For people infected with the Delta variant, similar amounts of viral genetic material have been found among both unvaccinated and fully vaccinated people. However, like prior variants, the amount of viral genetic material may go down faster in fully vaccinated people when compared to unvaccinated people. This means fully vaccinated people will likely spread the virus for less time than unvaccinated people.

The only two things that seem to be total fabrications that she said is that you are more likely to be sick from the delta if you have the vaccine. This is 100% not true. Cherry picking data from specific towns does not discount the vast amount of data from whole countries or the world. Secondly there is still no link to autism and vaccination. There simply isn't. Suspicious that she seems to make the claim that they shredded the data and never put it into the reports. There is a link perhaps to diagnosed autism and those that get full medical treatment such as vaccinations. This is purely because if a parent isn't taking their children to get vaccinations do you think those same parents are interested in getting them psychologically evaluated for autism?

And I'm trying to find any source that says that phd holders are the most vaccine hesitant and what I found was it was from a facebook self report that allowed people to claim whatever education they wanted? None of them were verified as being phd's. I'm not saying it isn't true but it is a factor that needs to be considered.

But for what its worth an estimated 96% of physicians are vaccinated.
AMA: 96% Of Doctors Are Vaccinated Against Covid-19

 

[Kooky]

Science has its place, it’s been exalted to a level where people take science as almost infallible and when science changes and is wrong, the excuses and blaming come. I don’t know of a laboratory experiment that plays out in real life scenario as far as Covid and masks. Masks do help with droplets for sure (BUT DO NOT KEEP OUT VIRUSES), problem is when people are walking and breathing, using the same air in a store for example, touching your mask and other things, there’s no way to stop or reduce the contamination. That’s why masks do not help, not only that, masks do hinder breathing and trap bacteria which you will breathe in all day long. (IMO)

That "IMO" is doing a whole lot of work in that argument, considering that, to my knowledge, none of these claims have ever been widely verified as factual.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sounds like a sound argument. She speaks very eloquently. However the official data and majority of physicians disagree with here. I will quote directly from the CDC website.

• Unvaccinated people remain the greatest concern: The greatest risk of transmission is among unvaccinated people who are much more likely to get infected, and therefore transmit the virus. Fully vaccinated people get COVID-19 (known as breakthrough infections) less often than unvaccinated people. People infected with the Delta variant, including fully vaccinated people with symptomatic breakthrough infections, can transmit the virus to others. CDC is continuing to assess data on whether fully vaccinated people with asymptomatic breakthrough infections can transmit the virus.
• Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others. However, vaccinated people appear to spread the virus for a shorter time: For prior variants, lower amounts of viral genetic material were found in samples taken from fully vaccinated people who had breakthrough infections than from unvaccinated people with COVID-19. For people infected with the Delta variant, similar amounts of viral genetic material have been found among both unvaccinated and fully vaccinated people. However, like prior variants, the amount of viral genetic material may go down faster in fully vaccinated people when compared to unvaccinated people. This means fully vaccinated people will likely spread the virus for less time than unvaccinated people.

The only two things that seem to be total fabrications that she said is that you are more likely to be sick from the delta if you have the vaccine. This is 100% not true. Cherry picking data from specific towns does not discount the vast amount of data from whole countries or the world. Secondly there is still no link to autism and vaccination. There simply isn't. Suspicious that she seems to make the claim that they shredded the data and never put it into the reports. There is a link perhaps to diagnosed autism and those that get full medical treatment such as vaccinations. This is purely because if a parent isn't taking their children to get vaccinations do you think those same parents are interested in getting them psychologically evaluated for autism?

And I'm trying to find any source that says that phd holders are the most vaccine hesitant and what I found was it was from a facebook self report that allowed people to claim whatever education they wanted? None of them were verified as being phd's. I'm not saying it isn't true but it is a factor that needs to be considered.

But for what its worth an estimated 96% of physicians are vaccinated.
AMA: 96% Of Doctors Are Vaccinated Against Covid-19

‘Tis good that you are here.

 

[Friend of Mara]

Please explain to me how you can catch Covid if you are taking all the proper precautions? It's impossible.

If you are vaccinated, if you stay at least 12 feet away from all other people, if you avoid all small, enclosed areas with other people, if you wear a NIOSH approved N95 respirator mask, or if you stay 100% isolated from all human contact all together, you can never catch Covid. These are the facts. There is no way a person with Covid can infect you, unless you are willing to risk getting infected - the risk is on you. This is what I mean about being 100% responsible. If you are not willing to protect yourself 100%, you have no one to blame for catching Covid except yourself.

This is nothing like drunk driving (which is illegal). You may have zero choice in a drunk driving accident, where a drunk driver crashes into you. You have complete choice to not catch Covid or how much you are willing to risk catching it.

If you live alone in the woods with air-dropped supplies while wearing a mask 24/7 I'll give you a pass on getting the vaccine.

 

[ecco]

That’s a perverted and wrong view and more like a “baiting” comment

If you believe it's wrong, show what's wrong with it.

we have through the roof inflation

Compared to 2020 when much of the country was shut down - yes. But,:
Whose fault is it that cars are so much more expensive? It was the manufacturers that slowed production and now there is a supply/demand problem.
Whose fault is it that lumber is so much more expensive? It was the producers and manufacturers that slowed production and now there is a supply/demand problem.
Your gripe should be with private enterprise, not the Biden administration. But if you want to blame political figures, blame Trump. It was under his administration that covid soared and led to pull backs.

MAGA was rejecting the bad unfair agreements we had with China and other Countries,

MAGA was also about building a wall with Mexico and have Mexico pay for it. Neither happened. MAGA was also about restoring jobs to thousands of coal miners. Didn't happen. Steel mills? Nope.

Trump worked out better trade deals for the US.

Name some positive results.

I don’t see any current Democrat policy that is pro business or pro growth, oppressive and bigger government is what we have.

The high demand for cars and lumber show you are wrong. The fact that businesses cannot hire enough people shows you are wrong.




But you did get some Ultra Conservative Supreme Court judges - who told Trump he lost the election. Funny how those things work.

 

[We Never Know]

If you believe it's wrong, show what's wrong with it.


Compared to 2020 when much of the country was shut down - yes. But,:
Whose fault is it that cars are so much more expensive? It was the manufacturers that slowed production and now there is a supply/demand problem.
Whose fault is it that lumber is so much more expensive? It was the producers and manufacturers that slowed production and now there is a supply/demand problem.
Your gripe should be with private enterprise, not the Biden administration. But if you want to blame political figures, blame Trump. It was under his administration that covid soared and led to pull backs.




MAGA was also about building a wall with Mexico and have Mexico pay for it. Neither happened. MAGA was also about restoring jobs to thousands of coal miners. Didn't happen. Steel mills? Nope.



Name some positive results.




The high demand for cars and lumber show you are wrong. The fact that businesses cannot hire enough people shows you are wrong.




But you did get some Ultra Conservative Supreme Court judges - who told Trump he lost the election. Funny how those things work.

"The high demand for cars"

The reason new cars are hard to come by is because of a chip needed from China. Car manufacturers have thousands upon thousands of new vehicles setting waiting for that chip.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Sounds like a sound argument. She speaks very eloquently. However the official data and majority of physicians disagree with here. I will quote directly from the CDC website.

• Unvaccinated people remain the greatest concern: The greatest risk of transmission is among unvaccinated people who are much more likely to get infected, and therefore transmit the virus. Fully vaccinated people get COVID-19 (known as breakthrough infections) less often than unvaccinated people. People infected with the Delta variant, including fully vaccinated people with symptomatic breakthrough infections, can transmit the virus to others. CDC is continuing to assess data on whether fully vaccinated people with asymptomatic breakthrough infections can transmit the virus.
• Fully vaccinated people with Delta variant breakthrough infections can spread the virus to others. However, vaccinated people appear to spread the virus for a shorter time: For prior variants, lower amounts of viral genetic material were found in samples taken from fully vaccinated people who had breakthrough infections than from unvaccinated people with COVID-19. For people infected with the Delta variant, similar amounts of viral genetic material have been found among both unvaccinated and fully vaccinated people. However, like prior variants, the amount of viral genetic material may go down faster in fully vaccinated people when compared to unvaccinated people. This means fully vaccinated people will likely spread the virus for less time than unvaccinated people.

The only two things that seem to be total fabrications that she said is that you are more likely to be sick from the delta if you have the vaccine. This is 100% not true. Cherry picking data from specific towns does not discount the vast amount of data from whole countries or the world. Secondly there is still no link to autism and vaccination. There simply isn't. Suspicious that she seems to make the claim that they shredded the data and never put it into the reports. There is a link perhaps to diagnosed autism and those that get full medical treatment such as vaccinations. This is purely because if a parent isn't taking their children to get vaccinations do you think those same parents are interested in getting them psychologically evaluated for autism?

And I'm trying to find any source that says that phd holders are the most vaccine hesitant and what I found was it was from a facebook self report that allowed people to claim whatever education they wanted? None of them were verified as being phd's. I'm not saying it isn't true but it is a factor that needs to be considered.

But for what its worth an estimated 96% of physicians are vaccinated.
AMA: 96% Of Doctors Are Vaccinated Against Covid-19

I don’t see a disagreement, what I see is CDC using language like “may” “can” to give a false appearance and view of the vaccine. The vaccine wasn’t meant to stop people from getting Covid or from transmitting but only to lessen the effect. Also the vaccine isn’t a broad spectrum vaccine but specific to that virus, seen as the viruses mutate booster shots will be needed often and for life. When the term “unvaccinated” is used they should differentiate between unvaccinated and haven’t been exposed yet. Also, under 50 year olds and especially under 18 in no way justify automatically vaccinating everyone according to the data.

 

[ecco]

Please explain to me how you can catch Covid if you are taking all the proper precautions? It's impossible.

If you are vaccinated, if you stay at least 12 feet away from all other people, if you avoid all small, enclosed areas with other people, if you wear a NIOSH approved N95 respirator mask, or if you stay 100% isolated from all human contact all together, you can never catch Covid.

If you fly with the pigs, you will not get covid either. Your "analogy" is seriously flawed because it is completely unrealistic. People have to go to work. Many in offices and stores. In the real world of the USA in August 2021, unvaccinated people are the ones spreading the disease, ending up in hospitals, and dying.

These are the facts. There is no way a person with Covid can infect you, unless you are willing to risk getting infected - the risk is on you. This is what I mean about being 100% responsible. If you are not willing to protect yourself 100%, you have no one to blame for catching Covid except yourself.

See the above comment about people and pigs.

This is nothing like drunk driving (which is illegal). You may have zero choice in a drunk driving accident, where a drunk driver crashes into you. You have complete choice to not catch Covid or how much you are willing to risk catching it.

You have zero chance of a drunk driver smashing into your car - if you ride in cars. You have zero chance of a drunk driver hitting you while you are walking or riding a bike - if you don't walk or ride a bike.

Hiding in your home may be effective but it is unrealistic. The realistic solution is to get people vaccinated and require proof of vaccinations for most activities. Then, if they don't want to get vaccinated, they are the ones who can stay in their homes and society can be 100% certain they will not infect anyone.

 

[ecco]

A very sound argument against vaccine.

Is it? Why can't you recap her main points against getting the vaccine? Is her testimony too complicated? Can't you find anything in her testimony to support your anti-vaccine bias? What is it?

Excellent argument

Perhaps you would like to address my points also.

 

[Friend of Mara]

I don’t see a disagreement, what I see is CDC using language like “may” “can” to give a false appearance and view of the vaccine. The vaccine wasn’t meant to stop people from getting Covid or from transmitting but only to lessen the effect. Also the vaccine isn’t a broad spectrum vaccine but specific to that virus, seen as the viruses mutate booster shots will be needed often and for life. When the term “unvaccinated” is used they should differentiate between unvaccinated and haven’t been exposed yet. Also, under 50 year olds and especially under 18 in no way justify automatically vaccinating everyone according to the data.

The data doesn't like though. Places where you have large percentages of vaccination has fewer cases and less unvaccinated getting sick. The numbers show that it is working. The numbers show that it isn't perfect. But "not perfect" and "ineffective" are very very different things.
https://data.cdc.gov/widgets/9bhg-hcku
More than 100k people under the age of 50 have died to covid.

Of the covid vaccination deaths I could fine all three were over the age of 70 and had underlying conditions.

So the fact remains that the vaccine is millions of times safer than covid. It is effective in reducing or outright eliminating symptoms in the individuals who are infected. They shorten the time they spread the disease.

What part of this is concerning? At every single metric it is millions of times more likely to experience negative outcomes when unvaccinated. Not a single shred of evidence to the contrary has been provided.

 

[ecco]

...that allows them to dream of the olden times when everything used to be better.

...and to worship the charlatans who come along and promise it to them.

 

[Moonjuice]

You have zero chance of a drunk driver smashing into your car - if you ride in cars. You have zero chance of a drunk driver hitting you while you are walking or riding a bike - if you don't walk or ride a bike.

Hiding in your home may be effective but it is unrealistic. The realistic solution is to get people vaccinated and require proof of vaccinations for most activities. Then, if they don't want to get vaccinated, they are the ones who can stay in their homes and society can be 100% certain they will not infect anyone.

I wasn't offering the most realistic solution, simply stating that you do not need other people to be vaccinated to protect yourself 100% from the virus. If you do not choose to do that, its entirely your fault that you caught it. If you are vaccinated, have your mask on, and you are standing 12 feet away from me, why should you care if I am vaccinated or not? It should have no bearing on you or your ability to remain Covid free.