Oh God! The knower of all….. testing us!!!!!!!!!

[Thief]

So kids which he prematurely kills off get fast-tracked to Heaven?

works for me.....and them...

 

[Aquitaine]

works for me.....and them...

Doesn't that completely negate the point to "the test" then?
Why not just kill all of us off as kids and fast-track us all to Heaven?

Surely you can see how ridiculous this whole idea is?

 

[Thief]

Doesn't that completely negate the point to "the test" then?
Why not just kill all of us off as kids and fast-track us all to Heaven?

Surely you can see how ridiculous this whole idea is?

I won't begrudge the passing of children into heaven.....why would I?

I do suspect ....
The angelic will begrudge the passing of adults that make denial.

 

[Aquitaine]

I won't begrudge the passing of children into heaven.....why would I?

I do suspect ....
The angelic will begrudge the passing of adults that make denial.

You're not answering my question: does providing a fast-track system for dead babies to enter Heaven not completely nullify any reason for life as "the test" ?

 

[Thief]

You're not answering my question: does providing a fast-track system for dead babies to enter Heaven not completely nullify any reason for life as "the test" ?

for them.....
but I thought that was obvious.

 

[morphesium]

The brain is not intelligence. The brain is an interface between the Intelligence and the body. If God gave us a bigger brain we would be more intelligent but we would not be better people (morally). Hitler was probably more intelligent than Mother Theresa.

Damage a part of the brain and it can effect our morale, senses and not just intelligence. chemicals can effect our thinking capabilities and our morales and senses. These are very much related. If people uses their brain, the part they use more often will develop much more than the parts they don't use. Mother Theresa (whom I respect a lot) would have that area of the brain (areas concerned with morale) much more developed than others.



(When ever religion enters into the relam of science, it is science that wins. If it is science that enters into the relam of religion - again, it is science that wins.)

 

[morphesium]

Why doesn't your God create a global "starting point' in terms of, say, zero infant mortality/disease, so that all of its creations have a shot at this "job".
It is essentially killing off a significant portion of its testing population before they've even begun the test, by relying 100% on humans to attempt to eradicate disease and infant mortality.

It is easy for religion to get imprinted in the brain - because questions and thoughts have no place there. Once the concept of religion is imprinted, religion can sell anything to the believers other than reason. So when ever you ask something that really happens in the real world (with examples), the best way for them to defend their side is with heaven, hell, and some other absurdities that you, me and them aren't aware of equally.
Problems in the real world are answered with (often absurd) assumptions. If it is for science, it would (try to) find answers here in the real world and solve the problem.

 

[Tumah]

I was giving my response to your argument that testing was necessary not for god but so that those that pass can feel even better about themselves that they passed when others didn't. If god set up this "test" this way on purpose I find it difficult to believe he cares much for humanity (whether they pass the test or not). If god is not all powerful/knowing and limited in his ability to guide/interact that would make more sense for a loving/caring god. If god is not a loving and caring creator then the state of this world makes perfect sense.

So it looks like you need to reread my OP, because you seem to be using some phrases here that are not found or implied there.

 

[Tumah]

Isn't soul an assumption?
If i take some pain killers, My physical body will not feel any pain (there won't be brain activity on the areas associated with pain). What about the soul?. I guess the soul too won't. Even i have heared sentences like these - It is the soul that feels pain. If so,, physical things like chemicals can effect soul. our brain wirings can effect soul.

You are interpolating ideas you have from other sources into what I've stated. I have never said that physical things can cause the soul to feel pain, certainly not in a direct manner.

simple, If god exists, God can put false memories in us (similar to dream)-
you have done such and such good things in your life with such a good intention but you have forgotten it (at this point god put some memories- only to confirm us that we have done such things) - and now i want to reward you for that.

What would be the benefit of that exactly?

ofcourse there are good people and bad people here - i agree. Give bad people a better brain connections and they would be better. Why torture bad people in hell just because they have grown up in bad circumstances (and because of bad brain wireings) . rewire them and sent them to heaven. why test - I just can't agree with the concept of testing.

You seem to be making a mistake in what the test is. Why do you assume that the test is something they were already hardwired to fail?

 

[Thanda]

Damage a part of the brain and it can effect our morale, senses and not just intelligence. chemicals can effect our thinking capabilities and our morales and senses. These are very much related. If people uses their brain, the part they use more often will develop much more than the parts they don't use. Mother Theresa (whom I respect a lot) would have that area of the brain (areas concerned with morale) much more developed than others.

So you believe humans are not responsible for their behavior? The why do we punish people for doing wrong? And why do people change? How do people who were once heartless become compassionate? How do the once compassionate become heartless. Are all these people injected with chemicals to make them change?

When my son learned to walk my endorphins were released and I felt happy? Why were the endorphins released? If according to you the brain is the intelligence then explain why the endorphins were released when my son began to walk. Clearly something told the brain that what is happening is good. The brain then ensured that the body responds appropriately by releasing the right chemicals. Likewise when there is danger, something tells the brain that the situation is dangerous and the brain releases adrenaline. That "something" is the intelligence or the spirit. The brain is just a control system and an interface.

 

[Thanda]

Damage a part of the brain and it can effect our morale, senses and not just intelligence. chemicals can effect our thinking capabilities and our morales and senses. These are very much related. If people uses their brain, the part they use more often will develop much more than the parts they don't use. Mother Theresa (whom I respect a lot) would have that area of the brain (areas concerned with morale) much more developed than others.



(When ever religion enters into the relam of science, it is science that wins. If it is science that enters into the relam of religion - again, it is science that wins.)

Another thing. The brain is non-subjective. It is a processor. It receives data through the senses, converts the data into machine language that can be understood by the "intelligence" and waits for the intelligence's response. If the intelligence decides that it likes what is happening the brain will react accordingly and will keep that reaction in memory so it doesn't need to refer the matter to the intelligence next time (this becomes the subconscious you were referring to). For safety, some responses come built in. So, for example, if I prick a baby's hand with a needle it will move it away without thinking. This is what we call instincts.
But the intelligence (the spirit) can interfere with these built in responses and even change them if it wishes to. So for example a firefighter can learn to walk into burning buildings when the natural instinct would be to run away from the fire and the heat. He can go against his instinct until he changes the instincts so that he is drawn to burning buildings and fire. Likewise what ever behaviour we might have learned which may now become part of our subconscious can also changed.

If these things were not true then humans would be entirely the product of their environment. We would expect everyone from the same family to act the same. This is obviously not the case.

 

[chinu]

Almost all religion says that that god is testing us how worthy we are – for some religion, life is single long test and in others there are a few occasional short tests that we have to go through.


If I write down a computer loop program that simply shows a random number between 0 and 1000 for every two seconds and runs it – it will show a random number for two seconds, then goes to show another random number and so on. I don’t know which number the computer is about to display but God knows everything – every random number that my computer is going to display even before I start running the program. That’s God. What’s random to us is just predetermined by god.

Our brain is an intricate network of neurological connections that largely determines the way we think, the way we analyze and the outcome of this etc, much of which are out of our control. When we find a unique solution for a mathematics problem when we do something creative (composing music) etc – it is these brain signals (that we are not in control of) that do the job, which we rightfully take the credit for. (God knows how much current will go through in each of these neurological wires, God know what we think and its outcome even before we do).

Spoiler: May skip this

[Moreover, it is now well understood now that there is nothing like free will. Our likes, dislikes are largely controlled by our subconscious mind something which we can reprogram - to change our likes, dislikes and creativity].

Now imagine this- I am making some tires. I make some tyres out of rubber. I make some tyres with pulped paper, some with brass, some with plastic and some with wood. I know each of its properties and how they are going to perform. I put each tyre on different roads and if the tyre failed to give me a comfortable ride, I will kick them, puncture with a hot iron rod, paint them and then put to fire, put off the fire and repaints them – something I repeat again and again. And if the tyre gave me a comfortable ride, I will make it my sweet pillow. You might be thinking I am an insane moron to do this. But then this is exactly what god is supposed to do for the believers. So aren’t you believers mocking your God with this?


Blessed are the non-believers.

Thanking you.

Blessed by whom ?

 

[morphesium]

Blessed by whom ?

Oops!You put me back in trouble!



That was a good question.

 

[Aquitaine]

It is easy for religion to get imprinted in the brain - because questions and thoughts have to place there. Once the concept of religion is imprinted, religion can sell anything to the believers other than reason. So when ever you ask something that really happens in the real world (with examples), the best way for them to defend their side is with heaven, hell, and some other absurdities that you, me and them aren't aware of equally.
Problems in the real world are answered with (often absurd) assumptions. If it is for science, it would (try to) find answers here in the real world and solve the problem.

Very true.

 

[Aquitaine]

for them.....
but I thought that was obvious.

It nullifies the purpose of life as a test for all of us, since the dead babies are being granted access to the "end game" without actually taking the test, so not only is it unfair, but it's also redundant as a system of judgement.

 

[Thief]

It nullifies the purpose of life as a test for all of us, since the dead babies are being granted access to the "end game" without actually taking the test, so not only is it unfair, but it's also redundant as a system of judgement.

There are 7billion souls headed for the last breath.
It will not be redundant.

 

[Aquitaine]

There are 7billion souls headed for the last breath.
It will not be redundant.

Yeah, and think of how many dead babies and young children have died of natural causes over the past 100,000 or so years. That's a lot of dead test subjects who died prematurely.
If I were God I would either:
1) Eliminate disease and other unnecessary elements which contribute to early death, ensure that the test subjects live long enough to be tested,
OR
2) Not bother creating "the test" in the first place and just fast-track everyone to Heaven/Hell.

 

[catch22]

It is self contradictory for the knower of all to test anything. You test when you do not know something, usually.

Ciao

- viole

Why do professors test students, then? Giving a test vs taking a test...

 

[Thanda]

If I were God I would either:
1) Eliminate disease and other unnecessary elements which contribute to early death, ensure that the test subjects live long enough to be tested,

I'm sure you would. Happily God is more sophisticated than that. He realised that without a body with weakness that makes premature, unexpected and unwanted death possible, this life wouldn't be much of a trial.

And again, stop worrying about people dying prematurely. God is going to make sure everyone is tested, one way or the other. Your focus should be on passing your own test.

 

[Aquitaine]

I'm sure you would. Happily God is more sophisticated than that. He realised that without a body with weakness that makes premature, unexpected and unwanted possible, this life wouldn't be much of a trial.

Dying at birth or in childhood isn't much of a trial is it? Still, it's interesting to know that you're happy with such things, because you believe it makes life worthwhile.
Again, I'm not advocating removal of pain, disappointment, challenge etc, just that the test subjects aren't cruely abused and prematurely killed off through no fault of their own.

And again, stop worrying about people dying prematurely. God is going to make sure everyone is tested, one way or the other. Your focus should be on passing your own test.

Oh okay, explain to me how he's going to test the dead babies that he purposefully killed off?