"Oh my god, you're SO white."

[Magic Man]

Oh, come on. I've heard Irishmen call each other Micks plenty of times, but I knew better than to use the word myself, and if one of my gay friends calls me a *** it's a lot different than if a straight person does it. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is. Some epithets can be used within a group, but can't politely be used by people outside the group.

It's true with anything. For instance, if you have a boss who doesn't do anything, but simply orders others around, it can be annoying. However, if your boss is willing to get his hands dirty and frequently does, it's not annoying when he does ask you to do something.

One time, long ago when I worked at Safeway, I had a revelation about this. We had a shipment being delivered, and when I went into the back, the driver was using our power jack (to move pallets), and he was messing around with it. I didn't say anything, but it was mildly annoying. I realized that if it had been an employee, I wouldn't have had a problem, but because it was an "outsider", it was sort of offensive that he was messing around with our stuff.

 

[Magic Man]

Nonsense. "We" do it all the time, but "we" don't generally think of "white" as an ethnic group. "We" have Irish-American, Greek-American, Italian-American, German-American, and all kinds of other similar awards. Nobody calls those awards racist, nor should they. African-American awards aren't racist, either.

Well, the difference is that the African-American awards are differentiating based on race, the others are doing it based on ethnicity.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Well, the difference is that the African-American awards are differentiating based on race, the others are doing it based on ethnicity.

It was mighty white of them. It was the white thing to do.

 

[Smoke]

Well, the difference is that the African-American awards are differentiating based on race, the others are doing it based on ethnicity.

Not really. African-American is an ethnicity. African-Americans usually don't even know exactly what countries in Africa their ancestors came from, nor do they usually have exclusively African ancestry. "African-American" is a specific ethnicity of relatively recent origin, just like "Seminole" is, but it's an ethnicity nevertheless.

 

[Magic Man]

Not really. African-American is an ethnicity. African-Americans usually don't even know exactly what countries in Africa their ancestors came from, nor do they usually have exclusively African ancestry. "African-American" is a specific ethnicity of relatively recent origin, just like "Seminole" is, but it's an ethnicity nevertheless.

Oh, I understand, but it's still not an ethnicity like "Greek" or "Irish" is. If that were the case, then they would be Nigerian-Americans and Somalian-Americans. Irish-Americans trace back to a single culture, whereas African-Americans trace back to many different cultures. Your point about them not knowing which African country they came from is my point. Africa hasn't been one single culture for thousands of years. So, they're really just basing it on race.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Oh, I understand, but it's still not an ethnicity like "Greek" or "Irish" is. If that were the case, then they would be Nigerian-Americans and Somalian-Americans. Irish-Americans trace back to a single culture, whereas African-Americans trace back to many different cultures. Your point about them not knowing which African country they came from is my point. Africa hasn't been one single culture for thousands of years. So, they're really just basing it on race.

Heh... none of the groups you mentioned have had a single culture for thousands of years. And many aren't single cultures today anyhow.

I consider myself "Irish Canadian" - my Dad came here from Belfast. However, my last name only arrived in Ireland with William of Orange in the 17th Century. If that's long enough for me to be considered the product of a single Irish culture, then a few hundred years of shared experience here in North America is enough to consider Yoruba and Zulu descendents to be products of the same culture as well.

 

[Caladan]

I totally agree. My dad was talking about this the other day - black people for example can have things like black music awards, but if we did that, we'd be completely racist. How is that fair?

I find it hard to believe many of you can really miss the whole point of this. blacks are a minority in America, whats the point of having a 'white music award'?
also what would 'white music award' be based on? polka? waltz? :biglaugh:

 

[gnomon]

I find it hard to believe many of you can really miss the whole point of this. blacks are a minority in America, whats the point of having a 'white music award'?
also what would 'white music award' be based on? polka? waltz? :biglaugh:

That's true. As well as "all black" schools were established to offer a place of education for African-Americans to further their education in a safe and fair environment. I think the question of their relevant utility at this time is actually a deeper debate beyond the misuse of language and belief as started by the OP.

But that's a good point.

 

[Magic Man]

I find it hard to believe many of you can really miss the whole point of this. blacks are a minority in America, whats the point of having a 'white music award'?
also what would 'white music award' be based on? polka? waltz? :biglaugh:

Actually, these days with what's at the top of the charts, it would make sense to have white music awards.

 

[Smoke]

Oh, I understand, but it's still not an ethnicity like "Greek" or "Irish" is. If that were the case, then they would be Nigerian-Americans and Somalian-Americans. Irish-Americans trace back to a single culture, whereas African-Americans trace back to many different cultures. Your point about them not knowing which African country they came from is my point. Africa hasn't been one single culture for thousands of years. So, they're really just basing it on race.

But it doesn't matter whether they know what country in Africa their ancestors come from. Their ethnicity was established by shared experiences in North America, just as the ethnicity of the Seminoles -- who are a blend of different Native tribes with some African and European ancestry -- was established relatively recently.

 

[Smoke]

Heh... none of the groups you mentioned have had a single culture for thousands of years. And many aren't single cultures today anyhow.

I consider myself "Irish Canadian" - my Dad came here from Belfast. However, my last name only arrived in Ireland with William of Orange in the 17th Century. If that's long enough for me to be considered the product of a single Irish culture, then a few hundred years of shared experience here in North America is enough to consider Yoruba and Zulu descendents to be products of the same culture as well.

My last name comes (in the case of my family) from Ireland, but it's originally a Norman name, and occurs throughout the British Isles; variations of it occur in France and Italy, too. Some of my Scottish ancestors bore English, rather than Scottish, surnames, hinting that they were probably not of "pure" Scottish descent. In fact, there's no such thing as "pure" descent. Everybody is what is called "mixed" in the South, and Queen Elizabeth II, who can document her ancestry better than most people, has African and Arab ancestors within historical times.

Also, it's all very well to speak of "German" as an ethnicity, but my "German" ancestors were not Germans, but Hessians, Prussians, Bavarians, Alsatians, etc.

 

[Stellify]

Just for the future, print out this picture:
If ever you're faced with another situation like that, just show them this.

I face-palmed my entire way through high school. I didn't need a picture lol.

 

[Father Heathen]

Here's another question: why is racial pride either good or bad depending on your race? Why the exceptions? Either it's the entire notion is bad or it's not, regardless.

 

[Stellify]

Here's another question: why is racial pride either good or bad depending on your race? Why the exceptions? Either it's the entire notion is bad or it's not, regardless.

I think the difference is whether it comes across as racial pride or racial elitism.
IE: I've seen people who are proud of their background/race/culture/etc. and celebrate it, and I've seen people who think they're better than everyone else because they belong to a particular race/culture/background/etc..
The former I have absolutely no problem with. The latter irritates the hell out of me, no matter who's doing it.

 

[ranjana]

white guy tells black jokes at dinner

 

[stacey bo bacey]

Oh, come on. I've heard Irishmen call each other Micks plenty of times, but I knew better than to use the word myself, and if one of my gay friends calls me a *** it's a lot different than if a straight person does it. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is. Some epithets can be used within a group, but can't politely be used by people outside the group.

If anything, this just reinforces my opinion that no one should be calling each other anything derogatory, not even people within their own race/culture/group. A couple pages back I mentioned this whole *****, ****, whore trend that girls have going these days...calling each other by those names as a term of endearance. I don't like it even though I do it now. And I don't know why I do it, so I said I was going to stop. It just doesn't make sense for anyone to call anyone else anything negative. Even when it's an affectionate thing, it's still distasteful.

 

[stacey bo bacey]

Nonsense. "We" do it all the time, but "we" don't generally think of "white" as an ethnic group. "We" have Irish-American, Greek-American, Italian-American, German-American, and all kinds of other similar awards. Nobody calls those awards racist, nor should they. African-American awards aren't racist, either.

This has never made sense to me. Blacks have been lobbying for equal rights in this country for hundreds of years now. Then they go and divide themselves off into their own award shows & beauty pageants. How are that making themselves equal by doing that? And how is that fostering the equality for which they have fought so hard? There should be one award show, one beauty pageant...

Honestly, if you could please explain the logic there, I would be happy to listen and try to understand.

And what Greek-American, Italian-American, German-American, etc awards are you talking about? I haven't seen anything like, "Welcome to the 40th annual Greek-American Grammys..." or anything like that?

 

[Father Heathen]

If anything, this just reinforces my opinion that no one should be calling each other anything derogatory, not even people within their own race/culture/group. A couple pages back I mentioned this whole *****, ****, whore trend that girls have going these days...calling each other by those names as a term of endearance. I don't like it even though I do it now. And I don't know why I do it, so I said I was going to stop. It just doesn't make sense for anyone to call anyone else anything negative. Even when it's an affectionate thing, it's still distasteful.

Yeah, I've always wondered about that in regards to the whole "frubal whore" thing. Should we call the guys "frubal ****"? They're both pretty ugly terms.

 

[Magic Man]

But it doesn't matter whether they know what country in Africa their ancestors come from. Their ethnicity was established by shared experiences in North America, just as the ethnicity of the Seminoles -- who are a blend of different Native tribes with some African and European ancestry -- was established relatively recently.

Then why do so many white ethnicities like those you name make the distinction when their ethnicities were established by shared experiences here?

 

[madhatter85]

i don't have a problem saying "stop being so black" to a black person. I made fun of a co-worker because he is rusian and short. i asked him "So, did Russia kick you out for being so short?" and he said in his little russian accent "Maybe."

you have to learn to read people. if you can't tell when to make a joke that will make people laugh and not offend them no matter the setting, you have no reason to even try to joke.