Ohio governor to sign bill allowing armed school employees

[ADigitalArtist]

Prevention? You mean like putting the crazy people back in institutions? Ok that too.
Having armed people already in schools to stop shootings is prevention.

Despite not having mental institutions (or the ablist idea that people with mental health conditions are dangerous whent they're more likely to be abused not be abusive) or armed schools in other countries, this is an America specific problem. Prevention is looking into why, not just reacting to the problem as though it'd a thing that we should just accept as the new normal.

Like maybe addressing the US growing wealth inequality, lack of federal gun control, lack of access to social services, wildly expensive healthcare, and other reasons everyone laughs when nationalists cry 'America is #1'.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Yes, but that requires actual training and not just having a gun.

Training helps but it dosent mean jack **** for a person facing and experiencing a lethal environment for the very first time.

It would be better imo to just have an off duty cop who is a veteran to do school security.

Even better and more cost effective.....

Some even suggest, probably the best solution of all, is having a police satellite station built on school grounds itself.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Yes, but that requires actual training and not just having a gun.

The OP talked about training being required.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Despite not having mental institutions (or the ablist idea that people with mental health conditions are dangerous whent they're more likely to be abused not be abusive) or armed schools in other countries, this is an America specific problem. Prevention is looking into why, not just reacting to the problem as though it'd a thing that we should just accept as the new normal.

Like maybe addressing the US growing wealth inequality, lack of federal gun control, lack of access to social services, wildly expensive healthcare, and other reasons everyone laughs when nationalists cry 'America is #1'.

Lack of social services? Where's that? Healthcare causes shootings? What? Money causes shootings? Not according to the data. If you want to check root causes check out fatherlessness.

 

[Revoltingest]

Training helps but it dosent mean jack **** for a person facing and experiencing a lethal environment for the very first time.

It would be better imo to just have an off duty cop who is a veteran to do school security.

Even better and more cost effective.....

Some even suggest, probably the best solution of all, is having a police satellite station built on school grounds itself.

Many cops never even fire their gun at anyone.
And many cops are bullies, cowards, & incompent.
To hire one as a guard looks less cost effective
than allowing staff to train & assume the responsibility.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Lack of social services? Where's that? Healthcare causes shootings? What? Money causes shootings? Not according to the data. If you want to check root causes check out fatherlessness.

Oh please, yes humor me with your 'data.'

 

[Revoltingest]

Lack of social services? Where's that? Healthcare causes shootings? What? Money causes shootings? Not according to the data. If you want to check root causes check out fatherlessness.

Despite the left's wanting to avoid mental health
issues being a risk factor in shootings, we clearly
see that many of these murderers need help
in that area. Providing such services would be
a toofer, ie, helping those in need, cutting violence.

Caution:
Let no one infer a claim that mentally ill people
are dangerous. I don't believe they generally are.
But there is a small subset that is indeed a threat.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

The OP talked about training being required.

The cops that cowered behind a door were trained. And had access to better armorment. This numbskull idea to turn schools into an arms race with teachers pitted against shooters isn't going to work.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The OP talked about training being required.

So how is that done?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Despite the left's wanting to avoid mental health
issues being a risk factor in shootings, we clearly
see that many of these murderers need help
in that area. Providing such services would be
a toofer, ie, helping those in need, cutting violence.

Caution:
Let no one infer a claim that mentally ill people
are dangerous. I don't believe they generally are.
But there is a small subset that is indeed a threat.

The issue isn't that the left doesn't feel like mental health services doesn't need accessibility. Far from it, most think that most everyone needs counseling, as readily used as physical checkups.

The issue is that the right is painting people with mental health illness as a high risk, and encouraging profiling them, when most active shooters had no history of mental health illness.

The idea that only people with diagnosed (or diagnosible) mental illness can commit violence on this scale is missing the forest.

 

[Revoltingest]

The issue isn't that the left doesn't feel like mental health services doesn't need accessibility. Far from it, most think that most everyone needs counseling, as readily used as physical checkups.

Nonetheless when I broach the
issue, that's the common retort.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Nonetheless when I broach the
issue, that's the common retort.

If you're not suggesting that profiling people with mental illness will lead to less gun violence than I don't see the problem. If you are, then I'll repeat that most shooters don't have a mental health illness diagnosis, so profiling won't help, nor does it take a mental health issue to be violent. Mental healthcare is important, but it's important because it doesn't take a mental health illness for people to become abusive. It's a resource everyone should have, not just people who've gotten mental health illness diagnosises.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Many cops never even fire their gun at anyone.
And many cops are bullies, cowards, & incompent.
To hire one as a guard looks less cost effective
than allowing staff to train & assume the responsibility.

I don't think that is that common. My uncle and my best friends father were both county deputies and either were like you described.

I will say a guard focusing on only on the school can be prohibitively expensive , many dont even have the power to book, which is why i am for police satellite stations that are physically on school grounds that serve the neighborhood as well as the school itself. It's a win win I think.

 

[Revoltingest]

If you're not suggesting that profiling people with mental illness....

I thought I've been clear enuf.
I guess not.
Mental illness is generally not a threat to others.
But there are people who exhibit increased potential
for violence, eg, expressing such intentions. Those
people would benefit from mental health services...
...as would others. A "red flag" should do more than
just prevent gun possession...it should cause service
providers to reach out to help.

BTW, as a landlord who once specialized in properties
with psychotherapists, I got to know not just the shrinks,
but also some of the clients (regulars who recognized
me). I never felt any threat from them whatsoever.
Moreover, I took great pains to manage the building &
staff to ensure their privacy, comfort, & feeling not judged.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't think that is that common. My uncle and my best friends father were both county deputies and either were like you described.

Were they really?
I've noticed in cases of bad cops that friends &
family insist that they're really good people at
heart, & wouldn't do what they're accused of.

I will say a guard focusing on only on the school can be prohibitively expensive , many dont even have the power to book, which is why i am for police satellite stations that are physically on school grounds that serve the neighborhood as well as the school itself. It's a win win I think.

School staff already doing some function for which
they're hired would have little marginal cost for
assuming the responsibility of being armed.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Oh please, yes humor me with your 'data.'

Mass shooters-absent fathers link ignored by anti-gun activists

It's not every single one, of course, but most come from bad home situations.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I thought I've been clear enuf.
I guess not.
Mental illness is generally not a threat to others.
But there are people who exhibit increased potential
for violence, eg, expressing such intentions. Those
people would benefit from mental health services...
...as would others. A "red flag" should do more than
just prevent gun possession...it should cause service
providers to reach out to help.

BTW, as a landlord who once specialized in properties
with psychotherapists, I got to know not just the shrinks,
but also some of the clients (regulars who recognized
me). I never felt any threat from them whatsoever.
Moreover, I took great pains to manage the building &
staff to ensure their privacy, comfort, & feeling not judged.

Sounds like we agree then.

Not sure whom on the left you're disagreeing with. Because I haven't met anyone who doesn't think people in general would benefit from mental health services, both before they have issues like anger management issues or impulse control issues, or afterward. And most on the left I've met think all violent offenders shouldn't have access to guns, up to and on including people with assault or domestic abuse charges.

But, again, most school shooters don't have previous charges or diagnosis, so profiling, specifically, for those things isn't especially helpful. And the FBI risk assessment looks more at individual actions than individual traits.

I like this quote from the FBI school shooter threat assessment (note: link is to a PDF download):

No one or two traits or characteristics should be considered in isolation or given more weight than the others. Any of these traits, or several, can be seen in students who are not contemplating a school shooting or other act of violence.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Mass shooters-absent fathers link ignored by anti-gun activists

It's not every single one, of course, but most come from bad home situations.

Neverminding the hilarious conservative bull**** of trying to leverage broken families into a gender role and anti porn and video game diatribe, this isn't a study. It's an op ed by a conservative author.

It also doesn't address what I've already posted. Do you know what is a common trait of single parent families? Poverty, lack of access to quality healthcare and social services.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sounds like we agree then.

Not sure whom on the left you're disagreeing with. Because I haven't met anyone who doesn't think people in general would benefit from mental health services, both before they have issues like anger management issues or impulse control issues, or afterward.

Not naming names/monikers.
I think the context of gun control & shootings reminds
them of arguments with other people. So the response
I get is inspired someone else.

 

[Heyo]

Oh please, yes humor me with your 'data.'

Which data? The NRA lobbied successfully against collecting data:
Gun Violence: Why the CDC Doesn't Study It