Oklahoma schools in revolt over Bible mandate

[Copernicus]

It's certainly not necessary. I'd love to avoid going much further than our 1st amendment to negotiate peace with our neighbors. Most aren't able to discuss much when holding contrary views without stepping on toes and insulting the other parties. Typically, this is due to not being informed well enough to understand a position, or simply not having the ability of character. It could go either way. We could end up with a huge mess moving forward with negated populations who understand the politics of other populations around the world, yet separated from the mainstay secular application in how we negotiate as a secular nation, or we could end up not having a choice, but be required to submit to forced efforts aimed to establish peace, and possibly be required to stand to protect our freedoms. The discussion we've been in is about making an effort to include the texts as an academic, understanding it could go terribly wrong...from incompetent teaching methods and/or disagreeable student and parent opposers, who hold true to the premise that they should not be required to stomach the religious drivel we know will eventually be spewed from those damn Christian Nationalist. Or it could work out fine. We simply don't know how this will turn out.

I don't think you are in any way qualified to judge the quality of education or the competence of teachers in our schools. What we do know is that the expensive mess made by Superintendent Walters is not going to end up well in the courts. Trump's SCOTUS has not been rubberstamping every wackadoodle idea that Republican states have been spitballing to them, but buying Trumped-up Bibles for classroom instruction is at the extreme end of them.

Meanwhile, people around the nation and world are locking and loading in anticipation of our 3rd because ... This seems to be in the works and may be inevitable for us to be required to defend ourselves and our communities, and in a way that has not been necessary to this extent since the civil war. So, it may not be necessary to include the bible or other religious texts in our schools and it may or may not be useful if they are, so for this reason "I really don't care".

But you do get some kind of charge out of the idea of people grabbing their AK47 flintlocks and manning the barricades because they can't have Bible study lessons in high schools?

It's a gamble anyway and life is uncertain, and people ARE against it.

More people are against making public teachers try to figure out what to do with all of those Bibles. What's next? Ordaining teachers in order to qualify them for teaching licenses?

At the moment the notion is stirring the pot, but ... If not in our school systems, I am certain you and those like you will see people like us (those who are ok with the inclusion) in the political arena better equipped than the average - "We didn't think it would be fair to be forced to study religious material in schools" type, and due to simply understanding a need to accommodate a position able to bridge a few divides to help the efforts aimed to increase peaceful relations between our neighbors and nations.

You've really got this thing about blood in the streets if you can't get your way, don't you? I think that people can live peacefully without having to distribute Bibles to high school students. They've been doing it a very long time now.

 

[Balthazzar]

I don't think you are in any way qualified to judge the quality of education or the competence of teachers in our schools. What we do know is that the expensive mess made by Superintendent Walters is not going to end up well in the courts. Trump's SCOTUS has not been rubberstamping every wackadoodle idea that Republican states have been spitballing to them, but buying Trumped-up Bibles for classroom instruction is at the extreme end of them.

I would expect teachers be qualified to teach the academic application as intended. I've stated over and again my disagreement with indoctrination attempts. You are correct, I am in no position to determine qualifications, but I am in position as a citizen to expect them to be qualified.

But you do get some kind of charge out of the idea of people grabbing their AK47 flintlocks and manning the barricades because they can't have Bible study lessons in high schools?

I'd prefer peaceful relations across the board and ability to negotiate and deliberate effectively to be present in and acquired for our future leaders.

More people are against making public teachers try to figure out what to do with all of those Bibles. What's next? Ordaining teachers in order to qualify them for teaching licenses?

I have no idea.

You've really got this thing about blood in the streets if you can't get your way, don't you? I think that people can live peacefully without having to distribute Bibles to high school students. They've been doing it a very long time now.

What way is that? Peaceful relations? Without peaceful relations I would suggest your assessment of not having things my way would have been necessitated for that reason. I stated I don't care if they are included and likewise stated why. Some will inevitably be more capable than others.

 

[Copernicus]

I would expect teachers be qualified to teach the academic application as intended. I've stated over and again my disagreement with indoctrination attempts. You are correct, I am in no position to determine qualifications, but I am in position as a citizen to expect them to be qualified.

That is the job of the Board of Education in your state. Unfortunately, the Superintendent of Schools in Oklahoma is a partisan hack trying to make a name for himself. He is reportedly interested in becoming governor and thinks that this doomed effort to make educators incorporate the Bible in their curriculum will help him. That's possible. Religion has always been considered a useful tool by politicians.

I'd prefer peaceful relations across the board and ability to negotiate and deliberate effectively to be present in and acquired for our future leaders.

Then why the "locked and loaded" language? (BTW, one usually loads first and then locks.)

You've really got this thing about blood in the streets if you can't get your way, don't you? I think that people can live peacefully without having to distribute Bibles to high school students. They've been doing it a very long time now.

What way is that? Peaceful relations? Without peaceful relations I would suggest your assessment of not having things my way would have been necessitated for that reason. I stated I don't care if they are included and likewise stated why. Some will inevitably be more capable than others.

Our country does not lack for mass shootings by deranged fools, but that's because any deranged fool can get a gun and terrorize the population for anything that pops into their head. Not putting Bibles in classrooms strikes me as way down the list of causes that excite people, but you seem to think they are higher. What is "your way"? I'm not sure. You seem to flip-flop between wanting bibles in classrooms and not caring. If you don't care, then the status quo will do. No need to talk about violence in the streets.

 

[Balthazzar]

That is the job of the Board of Education in your state. Unfortunately, the Superintendent of Schools in Oklahoma is a partisan hack trying to make a name for himself. He is reportedly interested in becoming governor and thinks that this doomed effort to make educators incorporate the Bible in their curriculum will help him. That's possible. Religion has always been considered a useful tool by politicians.



Then why the "locked and loaded" language? (BTW, one usually loads first and then locks.)

Some of us are actually concerned about the potential for a more globalized war, which is specifically why I think the bible among other religious texts could be useful for the specified application and intent, namely negotiation and dialogue to help in the effort of establishing and maintaining peaceful relations between nations and people.

I always say it "lock and load". It's not a concern. In any case, the threat of a global war may be.

Our country does not lack for mass shootings by deranged fools, but that's because any deranged fool can get a gun and terrorize the population for anything that pops into their head. Not putting Bibles in classrooms strikes me as way down the list of causes that excite people, but you seem to think they are higher. What is "your way"? I'm not sure. You seem to flip-flop between wanting bibles in classrooms and not caring. If you don't care, then the status quo will do. No need to talk about violence in the streets.

It's a matter of willing bodies taking on the responsibility, which some will do despite the resistance to enable the larger body via our educational institutions from grade 5 and up.

 

[Viker]

If not for the efforts made to remove the bible over 40 years ago, it would not need to go through the courts again for the inclusion.

The Bible has never been legally removed, barred or banned from public education. Never. It's that having the Bible mandated, used as an exclusive instructional tool and people being forced to utilize or read from it is objectionable and the problem.

 

[Revoltingest]

If not for the efforts made to remove the bible over 40 years ago, it would not need to go through the courts again for the inclusion.

I'm old enuf to have endured the Bible
being taught in public school. It sucked.

 

[Balthazzar]

A video I think important was removed, determined to be unallowable as posted, allegedly by the Olympic committee, so I found another one. The global stage we play on as people, and with the world getting smaller, the efforts of nations to address history and current day affairs should not be discarded as irrelevant. I thought this part of the opening ceremony was amazing. The expression of the logos in the performance is fitting to our present-day life realities.

I'll a post a different one in its place.

You can watch this on you tube by following the link where the video would typically be located.

 

[Balthazzar]

The Bible has never been legally removed, barred or banned from public education. Never. It's that having the Bible mandated, used as an exclusive instructional tool and people being forced to utilize or read from it is objectionable and the problem.

Even the 10 commandments have been subject to criticism and removal, and although I'm sure the bible is allowed in the library, It would have faced severe ridicule if placed in the classrooms.

We talk big about religious freedom in America, but when it comes down to the other religions and our acceptance of them, things seem to go opposite of our boasting. The same seems to be true for the exercise of our 1st amendment right for freedom of the press.

Anyway, on one hand religion is needed and on the other, it is a difficult thing to grow beyond our one- sided religious views.

The answer?

Cage them all and snuff them all out. We're a secular nation anyway. The alternative to the aforementioned tactic in play: Diversify the inclusion for greater cultural and religious reconciliation.

 

[Argentbear]

Even the 10 commandments have been subject to criticism and removal, and although I'm sure the bible is allowed in the library, It would have faced severe ridicule if placed in the classrooms.

as would the Qur'an or the Rig Veda or the Satanic Bible, or the Book of the Dead

We talk big about religious freedom in America, but when it comes down to the other religions and our acceptance of them, things seem to go opposite of our boasting. On one hand it's needed and on the other hand it is a difficult thing to grow beyond our one- sided religious views. The answer?

Cage and snuff them all out. We're a secular nation anyway.

Oklahoma is not legislating the indoctrination of children into any other religion, just one

 

[Copernicus]

Some of us are actually concerned about the potential for a more globalized war, which is specifically why I think the bible among other religious texts could be useful for the specified application and intent, namely negotiation and dialogue to help in the effort of establishing and maintaining peaceful relations between nations and people.

First of all, we are all concerned about a global nuclear war. Secondly, Christians have been reading the Bible for centuries and fighting bloody wars, many of them over how to interpret the Bible. I do not think your suggestion is helpful.

I always say it "lock and load". It's not a concern. In any case, the threat of a global war may be.

Yes. The threat of global war makes my concern over how to fire a flintlock seem rather unimportant.

It's a matter of willing bodies taking on the responsibility, which some will do despite the resistance to enable the larger body via our educational institutions from grade 5 and up.

I'm really not sure from that vague description what you expect the willing bodies to do or the larger body, for that matter. If it helps to stave off global nuclear catastrophe, that would definitely be a plus.

 

[Balthazzar]

as would the Qur'an or the Rig Veda or the Satanic Bible, or the Book of the Dead

Oklahoma is not legislating the indoctrination of children into any other religion, just one

If they are legislating with a purposed intent to indoctrinate the students of that state, then I am opposed. This is not how I read the proposal for the inclusion, but it is a start for more inclusive texts to be determined later.

 

[Balthazzar]

First of all, we are all concerned about a global nuclear war. Secondly, Christians have been reading the Bible for centuries and fighting bloody wars, many of them over how to interpret the Bible. I do not think your suggestion is helpful.



Yes. The threat of global war makes my concern over how to fire a flintlock seem rather unimportant.



I'm really not sure from that vague description what you expect the willing bodies to do or the larger body, for that matter. If it helps to stave off global nuclear catastrophe, that would definitely be a plus.

If I were concerned about a "nuclear" war, I would likely just roll a joint daily, sit on the front porch, and wait for the fireworks. I'm more concerned with avoiding war period and maintaining peaceful relations.

 

[Copernicus]

If I were concerned about a "nuclear" war, I would likely just roll a joint daily, sit on the front porch, and wait for the fireworks. I'm more concerned with avoiding war period and maintaining peaceful relations.

A noble concern. I would suggest that you also be concerned about climate change. Read your Bible, if it helps. Don't worry about students receiving a secular education. Those who want to supplement with Bible readings can always go to Church or join a club.

 

[Balthazzar]

A noble concern. I would suggest that you also be concerned about climate change. Read your Bible, if it helps. Don't worry about students receiving a secular education. Those who want to supplement with Bible readings can always go to Church or join a club.

Climate shifts happen almost continually, and the changes seem to be predicted to increase rain fall and severity of storms. This is shorter term than long term. We already understand the sun to be expanding, which will eventually boil the oceans, but we're talking a couple three billion years before this is predicted as being applicable. In the meantime, we have our struggles mandating adaptation and innovation. The war threats are active and concerning, and if they do play out on a more global scale, and if there's anything left, we're still going to need able bodies with skills necessary to help further establish peaceful relations. It almost a genocidal thing to attempt to snuff religion from the earth. It's certainly an injustice to world history and many cultures.

Higher education, if the process is not started in our general public schools, would be necessitated. I doubt a club would be able to accommodate the need with much success, but I could be wrong. Either way, people will prepare for the skill set, but this could leave many citizens behind and given recent voter infringements, the trend could positionally continue if our citizen base is deemed too incompetent to make informed decisions at the booth. This would, of course, mean forced limitations of voter rights, which isn't anything new anywhere, really. I'd prefer to equip our citizen base with the needed acuity to make intelligent decisions in how we are represented.

Noble? That's a stretch. It's more to the tune of "We're screwed if we don't step it up".

 

[Wandering Monk]

Surprise! The bibles Oklahoma wants to put in their schools have to meet certain requirements that only the Trump Bible fulfills. A blatant attempt to get money to Trump.

Bibles that Oklahoma wants for schools match version backed by Trump

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Oklahoma's top education official is seeking to purchase 55,000 Bibles for public schools and specifying that each copy contain the Declaration of Independence and U.S.

apnews.com

 

[Copernicus]

Higher education, if the process is not started in our general public schools, would be necessitated. I doubt a club would be able to accommodate the need with much success, but I could be wrong. Either way, people will prepare for the skill set, but this could leave many citizens behind and given recent voter infringements, the trend could positionally continue if our citizen base is deemed too incompetent to make informed decisions at the booth. This would, of course, mean forced limitations of voter rights, which isn't anything new anywhere, really. I'd prefer to equip our citizen base with the needed acuity to make intelligent decisions in how we are represented.

Besides buying into the school Bible foolishness, you seem to be working up to justifying voter suppression laws, if not an outright overthrow of our democratic form of government. Perhaps you should reread the parts of the Bible that promote freedom and democracy. Oh, wait...

 

[Balthazzar]

Besides buying into the school Bible foolishness, you seem to be working up to justifying voter suppression laws, if not an outright overthrow of our democratic form of government. Perhaps you should reread the parts of the Bible that promote freedom and democracy. Oh, wait...

If we're heading towards a theocracy, or some type of dictatorship, then I'm certain the war conquests and those who supports them will get exactly what they are aiming to accomplish, which at the moment, they have been making effort to divide the citizens of this nation, which makes it very easy to overthrow and take over, due to our divisions.

I wouldn't think voter suppression to be anything even remotely justifiable, which is why I'm vehemently against it. The aims to overthrow a nation and establish a government apart from that which we have been accustomed to, appears to be active and in process current day. I question when it might have been, that people quit listening, or when people lost the ability to observe and make an assessment of a situation with any accuracy. Or maybe it's just the younger generations who are unable to see what's happening in the world.

I'm ok, no bible in schools. I'm ok with states establishing themselves as Sovreign entities. I'm ok with segregated efforts, although I would prefer a more inclusive America. I'm a nomad, anyway. I do have kids, though.

I'll tell you what I will do. From this day forward, I will cease and desist from bible talk. I'm still a Christian. I'll still conduct myself as I do. I'm still taking a secular stand, and I still support freedom of religion. I was made to search it out for myself. Why should I expect any different from anyone else? I have my laptop, and my camera ready for the documentation. I may not be, however. I don't have the luxury to choose in that specific arena, anymore. I'm not sure I ever did. I question whether any of us have much a choice, and if many truly care about that at all.

Anyway, no more bible talk! Let's have it "your" way. This might be difficult, actually. It has had quite an influence on art, music, and literature.

 

[Pogo]

I would expect teachers be qualified to teach the academic application as intended. I've stated over and again my disagreement with indoctrination attempts. You are correct, I am in no position to determine qualifications, but I am in position as a citizen to expect them to be qualified.

I'd prefer peaceful relations across the board and ability to negotiate and deliberate effectively to be present in and acquired for our future leaders.


I have no idea.


What way is that? Peaceful relations? Without peaceful relations I would suggest your assessment of not having things my way would have been necessitated for that reason. I stated I don't care if they are included and likewise stated why. Some will inevitably be more capable than others.

No you have no idea how the arguments you are positing are antithetical to the position that you espouse.


Go back and reflect.

 

[Balthazzar]

No you have no idea how the arguments you are positing are antithetical to the position that you espouse.


Go back and reflect.

It's in the younger generation's hands, for better or worse. I may ignore the entire case and keep my mouth shut. We truly don't need the dialogue anyway. We don't require negotiations. It's your country, too. Your decisions and if you don't want inclusive religious history as part of our education as a free nation, it's not my future to concern myself with. Truth be told, I have no right to step in and screw up the antireligious movement taking place in the nation, anyway.

Most everyone I've spoken to disapproves of religion and faith-oriented institutions with governmental influence. I don't understand much about the modern world. It's all LGBT, secular triumph, and if you're a man sit your butt down, unless you're not a straight male, then you can have a voice again.

So, I'm having a seat with the rest of the underground. We'll come out of the woodwork one day ourselves, just like those who placed us here did. I'm grabbing my popcorn.

It's your ball - your court ... my apologies.

I'll quit stepping on toes

Good luck

 

[anna.]

It's all LGBT, secular triumph, and if you're a man sit your butt down, unless you're not a straight male, then you can have a voice again.

Ah... after all those many, many words... there it is.