On Evolution & Creation

[walt]

The thing that here most need to understand is that we are not trying to be smart to others , but we really want to show to others how they can learn from it.

Each field in Science has its own ways.
Biology is no different.

I don't agree with any of that.

 

[Dimi95]

I don't agree with any of that.

That's fine.
Life goes on anyway

 

[walt]

That's fine.
Life goes on anyway

Thanks for the conversation.

 

[YoursTrue]

The thing that here most need to understand is that we are not trying to be smart to others , but we really want to show to others how they can learn from it.

Each field in Science has its own ways.
Biology is no different.

Sorry to say, but from what I have seen here is that there are those supporting the theory of evolution and do not rationally present their reasoning as to why they do. They also may say that a person who does not agree with the theory of evolution is ignorant and uneducated without giving any explanation beyond that.

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't think i have ever been so confused on this forum with an answer like with yours.
You say No , and then you give us a reason why that "No" would be a "Yes" in the first place.

I advice to leave your set of beliefs aside and look into Evolution on its own terms.
It's science , nothing more.
Either that , either your God is not so powerfull..

You will have to excuse my words , i don't want to offend nobody , but that is just what i think.

I am so sad and mad at the same time that these ideas are the driving force of your(3rd person) understanding.
Even those who try to persue some crazy terms like ID, they actually know that life is possible only in the way of Evolution.
And they want to make numbers out of it.And i am so mad that most of them are Christians , so mad at that fact.
Apologetics is the worst way to enter the world of science , it is only tricks and nothing more.

You should know that today there are all kinds of analysis , and all kind of people doing them.And i am pretty sure that this discussion on Evolution & Abiogenesis is not a discussion of belivers and non-belivers.

I have checked that through multiple sources.

This is a discussion between two different group of peope with two diffefent understanding of reality.Haven't you taught doing some research about it?

To lack knowledge is not a bad thing, when you accept Evolution , it will change nothing , apsolutely nothing.

Just forget Abiogenesis and don't bother with it and be focused on Evolution if you want to learn honestly.

Out of 100 cases in court those who reject it will lose 101 times.

But i personally think that you don't accept it because you are JW, not because of Science.

Certainly we don't have to continue talking, but if I had not studied the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses i would not really know what the Bible says and...my life would have been very different. I won't say how now, but I will say that I am free from some chains of slavery and circumstances. No, I no longer believe everything scientists say about how we came about and where they think the future is going.

 

[Dimi95]

That is my choice.

Why would you think that a written book by man would be the Word of God?
I know that the Word of God is God itself as mentioned by 1:1.

I don't belive that to be The Bible.
I don't live by a Book , i live by tradition which i found it later to be true by seeing it in a Book.

I realize there are parts hard to understand.

Hard ? Nothing is Hard

Ask , we will help you.
But you ask the wrong questions.

I do not contest them because I believe in God and I also believe that is what He wants us to know in general about Him, life and the future.

Too bad , half and more of the planet think otherwise and their reasons are are clearer and don't include God.
By saying this you don't reject God.


That is why i am hard on you , so you can understand it.
I don't have any personal issues with you , i share nothing but blessings with everyone here.
This is a forum , when you meet people that you don't know and i am taught to sharp and staff like that , but also to be nice.

That is my choice based on faith and stufy after doing what I consider a good amount of research and prayer.

I can say the same.

By the way, it is virtually impossible, ok--change that to realistically impossible--to not consider how the first living matter appeared, i.e. what it was and yes, how it appeared.

That is because you don't understand chemistry and inorganic substances.

And then what happened to it.

You and me and everyone and everything on this planet that existed , exist and will exist - happend.
It is what it is , whoever accepts it , they know that the thing that they accept is knowledge.

The theory about evolution is more like spontaneous chemically biologic reaction and here we are voila!

And the theory is every oposite of it.

But it’s not random either!

evolution.berkeley.edu

Natural selection is sometimes interpreted as a random process.
That is misconception.

after a real long time of things happening without any direction from an intelligence above and beyond what is known scientifically.

Yeah , that's the problem.
You think that the 'above' works for you and you should be given directions about everything.
You are given to things that you need.

 

[YoursTrue]

Why would you think that a written book by man would be the Word of God?
I know that the Word of God is God itself as mentioned by 1:1.

I don't belive that to be The Bible.
I don't live by a Book , i live by tradition which i found it to be true by seeing it in a Book.


Hard ? Nothing is Hard

Ask , we will help you.
But you ask the wrong questions.



Too bad , half and more of the planet think otherwise and their reasons are are clearer and don't include God.
By saying this you don't reject God.


That is why i am hard on you , so you can understand it.
I don't have any personal issues with you , i share nothing but blessings with everyone here.
This is a forum , when you meet people that you don't know and i am taught to sharp and staff like that , but also to be nice.


I can say the same.



That is because you don't understand chemistry and inorganic substances.



You and me and everyone and everything on this planet that existed , exist and will exist happend.
It is what it is , whoever accepts it , they know that the thing that they accept is knowledge.


And the theory is every oposite of it.

But it’s not random either!

evolution.berkeley.edu

Natural selection is sometimes interpreted as a random process.
That is misconception.


Yeah , that's the problem.
You think that the 'above' works for you and you should be given directions about everything.
You are given to things that you need.

I was in very much need of direction. Glad I found it. I still benefit from it and am still learning but in a much better and different way than before I studied.

 

[YoursTrue]

I was in very much need of direction. Glad I found it. I still benefit from it and am still learning but in a much better and different way than before I studied.

Continuing to @Dimi95 my life now is very much changed to what I think is much better than it was before. I studied for quite a while before I decided that the Bible is the written word of God.

 

[Dimi95]

Certainly we don't have to continue talking, but if I had not studied the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses i would not really know what the Bible says and...my life would have been very different.

Why to stop talking ?

If i had not studied all this by myself i wouldn't belive it.

Look , i am not a priest , i know how many priest abuse their power and take on the money of their people and on that money they become rich.
I think that you think that i am some religious weirdo.

No ,i have a regular job , regular life.

I just happen to read , research and study a lot.

I won't say how now, but I will say that I am free from some chains of slavery and circumstances. No, I no longer believe everything scientists say about how we came about and where they think the future is going.

We can't predict things by certain methodology and certain analysis.

We can prove this , it is not a bluff on poker.
It's Royal Flush.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Goal a functional heart, a functional lung, a functional brain. --- Do you expect a heart to pump blood If it is only partially developed.

Have you never worked on a project? In the beginning a project is nowhere near completed.

No. There never was such a goal. That is the result. What you are proposing is called "orthogenesis" and that is pseudoscience. You are assuming a designer and there is no evidence of a designer. In fact at best you could claim to have evidence for an incompetent designer.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes I believe in gravity.

Really? I know that gravity is a fact and how to demonstrate that. Knowledge trumps belief.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The automobile today is very complex and has literally thousands of parts.

How about if somebody built a automobile complete with everything except [ the steering wheel was missing ], will the steering wheel ever show up all by itself, after a billion years of time?

Evolution does not include an intelligent designer or maker. So how many years would need to pass before the steering wheel would show up without the assistance of some form of intelligence?

One question: Do cars self replicate with variation?

 

[Dimi95]

Continuing to @Dimi95 my life now is very much changed to what I think is much better than it was before. I studied for quite a while before I decided that the Bible is the written word of God.

But this here is about Evolution.
We want you to reason yourself and do some study.
I am really bored to argue and to see how others do it.
Let's do different discussions with different questions.
How about that?
You don't want to know more about Science?

I am glad however that everything worked for you.

 

[John53]

Oh that's convenient

Maybe for you, I've still got stuff to do. The end has come as quite a shock to me.

 

[John53]

Goal a functional heart, a functional lung, a functional brain. --- Do you expect a heart to pump blood If it is only partially developed.

Have you never worked on a project? In the beginning a project is nowhere near completed.

Google the dorsal vessel.

 

[walt]

Maybe for you, I've still got stuff to do. The end has come as quite a shock to me.

If evolution was true we would still see it happening.

Does anyone eyewitness one species turning into another? No!

Does fossils reveal evidence of one species turning into another? No!

You can't even get cream in your coffee without intelligent assistance, [[ one little step ]] If one little step can't happen without intelligent assistance, How can you assume a million steps can happen in the total process of life?

 

[walt]

One question: Do cars self replicate with variation?

Have you ever worked on a project and steps get done all by themselves?

 

[John53]

If evolution was true we would still see it happening.

And we do

Does anyone eyewitness one species turning into another? No!

Depends what you mean by eyewitness. The fossil record is great evidence.

I would say mudskippers are also evidence.

Does fossils reveal evidence of one species turning into another? No!

I disagree.

You can't even get cream in your coffee without intelligent assistance, [[ one little step ]] If one little step can't happen without intelligent assistance, How can you assume a million steps can happen in the total process of life?

I have milk in my coffee.

I don't need to assume anything, I can look out my window now and observer life.

 

[walt]

Really? I know that gravity is a fact and how to demonstrate that. Knowledge trumps belief.

I don't have time to talk with you now, My boss is a gorilla, I'm going to meet with my grandfather the turtle and my grandmother the amoeba, and all my grasshopper cousins.

 

[walt]

And we do


Depends what you mean by eyewitness. The fossil record is great evidence.

I would say mudskippers are also evidence.




I disagree.



I have milk in my coffee.

I don't need to assume anything, I can look out my window now and observer life.

good conversation thanks.