On Evolution & Creation

[Subduction Zone]

You mean be brainwashed don't you?

No, that appears to be you. Making false claims about others can be a violation of the rules here. You are definitely breaking your own Ninth Commandment.

Enjoy,

It could have been here a lot longer than that.

Enjoy,

Wow! You are somewhat right. It was probably about 3.8 billion years ago.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You're saying we humans do not have to witness the process of evolution but it is true nonetheless.

No we have "witnessed" it.

 

[Pogo]

No.
That is why I gave such a wide period of time. But I am only talking about the last 5 miles of formation of the earth on top . Science says it only took 4 billion years to build the whole thing.

Enjoy,

What are you even talking about? The accretion was the combining of material orbiting the sun and took place after the sun was formed and at the beginning of what we call the earth. It completed for the most part by 3.8 billion years ago and then we had to wait for the earth to cool down before much else happened. There is a trivial amounts of space dust accumulating since then and occasional asteroids. Otherwise it is normal geological processes of erosion and plate tectonics that are responsible for the surface we see on the earth and the burial of fossils etc.

 

[Pogo]

All erosion does is re-arrange what is already available.

Enjoy,

Yup and it is a well understood and datable process. It is more than bumper cars though if that is your level of understanding, Well?

 

[Pogo]

How do all the vital organs in the body evolve?

How does the eyeball evolve?

How does the mouth, teeth, tongue, taste buds, the ability to swallow, the digestive system evolve?

The skeletal system?

The shoulder, the arm, the elbow, the wrist the hand the fingers?

The reproductive system?

Wouldn't the first human need to be Instantly complete, to survive out the first day? How could the first of any life, live to see the next day If something vital was missing?

Start here.
Evolution 101

I feel for life to start, it needs to start complete not incomplete, like what you see when you look at any person.
[ A fully developed human being, with all of its parts functioning. ]

If the first human was complete In the first moment of life, that sounds like intelligent design not evolution. In my opinion.

No, just the most recent step in a long process,
Evolution 101

 

[walt]

Start here.
Evolution 101

No, just the most recent step in a long process,
Evolution 101

Thank you for the information.

 

[walt]

I need to be showing love and kindness in my comments, sorry if I have commented sarcastically to anyone. I will keep trying to improve in this area.

 

[Valjean]

Do you think that a 'belief' without proof can be true?
The proper word is not belief but let's just settle for something that exists without proof and it is true.

Sure. Why not? You believe lots of things without proof, don't you? Spherical Earth, Germ theory of disease. Heliocentric Universe. Orangutans.
It's a matter of evidence.

 

[Valjean]

Listen, thanks for that. As I see it, it (the need for water of DNA) almost shows me that it is unreasonable to think it all came about without a divine maker. Obviously some will argue that no Divine Authority is necessary for these functions. I no longer accept that as a theory, since I believe now it is too fantastic for these things like DNA to 'happen.'

 

[YoursTrue]

Start here.
Evolution 101

No, just the most recent step in a long process,
Evolution 101

Reading about eyes, the info from scientists is quite interesting. Different organisms, different types of eyeballs. It's not making logical sense to me as if these organisms did better with these different types.

 

[Valjean]

I respect all persons that believe in evolution, I just feel it is silly because of the reasons I have already commented on. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

You don't understand it. This belief in the irreducible complexity of everything illustrates it.

How do all the vital organs in the body evolve?

How does the eyeball evolve?

How does the mouth, teeth, tongue, taste buds, the ability to swallow, the digestive system evolve?

The skeletal system?

The shoulder, the arm, the elbow, the wrist the hand the fingers?

The reproductive system?

How did you not learn these things in High school biology?
These are all very basic, well-understood processes, with well understood and often easily observable mechanisms.
Where did you get the idea that there was anything mysterious about these?

Wouldn't the first human need to be Instantly complete, to survive out the first day? How could the first of any life, live to see the next day If something vital was missing?

No! I keep hearing this assertion of irreducible complexity. It clearly illustrates a lack of knowledge about how evolution works; the mechanisms involved. It's been debunked from every angle from the day it was proposed, and is overwhelmingly rejected by science.

What is "the first of any life?"
Life's not a black-or-white, alive or not-alive phenomenon. It was generated as a continuum of small changes, with components and structures becoming increasingly "lifelike" over who knows how long. Like the point where Latin turned into Spanish, the point lifelike structures could be called "alive" would be an arbitrary designation.

Walt, ask some specific questions about the mechanisms of evolution that you find dubious and I'll try to explain them.

 

[Audie]

I respect all persons that believe in evolution, I just feel it is silly because of the reasons I have already commented on. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

Whatevs, guy.
if you want to be educated the world is out there
waiting.

if you want to continue being like a kid who thinks algebra is
“silly” because it uses letters for numbers and all them
mathematicians is silly- billys , go for it.

We Chinese value learning.

Calling us silly or holding up a cross like
we are vampires won’t help you.

 

[Audie]

Don’t say ya didn’t ask for it.

 

[Audie]

You don't understand it. This belief in the irreducible complexity of everything illustrates it.

How did you not learn these things in High school biology?
These are all very basic, well-understood processes, with well understood and often easily observable mechanisms.
Where did you get the idea that there was anything mysterious about these?

No! I keep hearing this assertion of irreducible complexity. It clearly illustrates a lack of knowledge about how evolution works; the mechanisms involved. It's been debunked from every angle from the day it was proposed, and is overwhelmingly rejected by science.

What is "the first of any life?"
Life's not a black-or-white, alive or not-alive phenomenon. It was generated as a continuum of small changes, with components and structures becoming increasingly "lifelike" over who knows how long. Like the point where Latin turned into Spanish, the point lifelike structures could be called "alive" would be an arbitrary designation.

Walt, ask some specific questions about the mechanisms of evolution that you find dubious and I'll try to explain them.

Good luck

 

[Audie]

I need to be showing love and kindness in my comments, sorry if I have commented sarcastically to anyone. I will keep trying to improve in this area.

Good attitude.
A love of learning will get you much further though.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Reading about eyes, the info from scientists is quite interesting. Different organisms, different types of eyeballs. It's not making logical sense to me as if these organisms did better with these different types.

That is probably because you are making the error of using orthogenesis, or the idea that evolution has a goal. It does not. Let's say that you have a simple organism with only light sensitive sensors in two spots. It could be more or less, but two is a common number. the sensors are not even laid out yet in a plane. They are a jumbled mess. In one just due to chance when the plane formed the nerves lines were underneath the sensors. In others, there were more examples where the signal came out of the top of the nerves. So they formed lines on top. The rest of the process was very similar between the two of them but one would have evolved eyes like that of a squid or octopus and the other evolve eyes like a fish or us. Neither one is particularly advantageous. Ours have a blind spot, their do not. but that is very easy to get around and there may be minor downsides to their system. There usually is. But just because our distant ancestors had eyes that had more nerve ends over the sensors and theirs had more underneath caused us to have eyes that work rather differently.


Also, once a process is begun it cannot be reversed. If one pathway was terrible that can end up in extinction. But that difference is clearly not that important for survival. There was no goal set ahead of time of All of our nerves have to be on top. We just ended up with that version and that appears to be by "chance" and squids have the opposite.

 

[Valjean]

I feel for life to start, it needs to start complete not incomplete, like what you see when you look at any person.
[ A fully developed human being, with all of its parts functioning. ]

OK, you feel it, but you don't understand it. There are known, observable mechanisms by which changes can accumulate and generate greater complexity.
A "fully developed person, with all its parts" -- or a fully developed anything -- did not pop into being ex nihilo. Our complex selves are a collection of small, selected changes, accumulated bit by bit, over æons of time. At no point was the mechanism dysfunctional or we would have become extinct.

If the first human was complete In the first moment of life, that sounds like intelligent design not evolution. In my opinion.

I agree -- but your premise is factually incorrect.
Where did you hear that there was ever a "complete" first human???

 

[walt]

You don't understand it. This belief in the irreducible complexity of everything illustrates it.

How did you not learn these things in High school biology?
These are all very basic, well-understood processes, with well understood and often easily observable mechanisms.
Where did you get the idea that there was anything mysterious about these?

No! I keep hearing this assertion of irreducible complexity. It clearly illustrates a lack of knowledge about how evolution works; the mechanisms involved. It's been debunked from every angle from the day it was proposed, and is overwhelmingly rejected by science.

What is "the first of any life?"
Life's not a black-or-white, alive or not-alive phenomenon. It was generated as a continuum of small changes, with components and structures becoming increasingly "lifelike" over who knows how long. Like the point where Latin turned into Spanish, the point lifelike structures could be called "alive" would be an arbitrary designation.

Walt, ask some specific questions about the mechanisms of evolution that you find dubious and I'll try to explain them.

First, I try to relate to my own personal experiences, for fifty years I have never received assistance from a unintelligent source, with even one tiny step. Is it not reasonable to think that whatever happens in our own lives, is also what happens in other areas of life.

What's capable or not capable of happening In my own personal life, should cross over to what's capable or not capable In other situations, wouldn't that make sense?

 

[Valjean]

Reading about eyes, the info from scientists is quite interesting. Different organisms, different types of eyeballs. It's not making logical sense to me as if these organisms did better with these different types.

The stages, from a simple spot of light-sensitive tissue on a microbe, to the formation of a fairly complex mammalian eye like our own, can be examined, by those very eyes, in organisms alive today. No need for fossils or reconstructions or speculation about possibilities.

 

[Valjean]

Good luck

Thus far, Walt seems friendly, reasonable and willing to learn, and I'm retired with time on my hands. Explaining basic principles of evolution or biology should help exercise my mind and keep me from going senile.