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On Evolution & Creation

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Well then -- thinking about Christmas and how many people celebrate it, and of course many do not believe that Jesus was born to a virgin -- but would you say that those who really DO believe Jesus existed as written also believe in magic?
Those who believe in effects without causes, effects that defy natural law, effects that would be laughed out of a courtroom if they were claimed today do believe in magic.
I'm not sure what you mean by Jesus existing as written. Existing as written in the canonical gospels, or all the other gospels? There may well have been a guy by that name, at that time, but the fantastic tales that have sprung up about Him are largely folklore.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You and others want to misinterpret what I said. But thank you, and I understand that also. MEANTIME, what information do you have that shows you know for certain that fish became, evolved to, human beings? And from what other fish they evolved from? While you're at it, the only explanation I can think of that scientists might use to explain why nothing has been observed to demonstrate that finches evolve to anything other than finches, or viruses evolve to something other than viruses is that there's not enough time to observe if they do, according to the theory. Carry on...Now please do explain if you do or don't believe that Mary got pregnant by magic. Thanks.
Please, YT, stop it. Your embarrassing yourself reïterating all these debunked or outright false claims that have been explained to you a hundred times.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So you must also believe then that it is assumed to be magic when Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead.
Unless you can explain the physical mechanism, then yes. Like so many other fantastical stories from so many other religions, it would conform to the definition of magic.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Answer to #1 - if you believe it supports or contradicts the theory of evolution, that depends on you. It doesn't matter what you BELIEVE -- because -- finches remain finches thus far as I know. Maybe you KNOW more than that. If you can discern the answer to your question, so be it. If not, also so be it. #2a&b are up to you -- to decide. If you cannot discern what I think based on the evidence we can see now that finches remain finches, so be it. Oh, and viruses remain viruses. Thus far. :) So I understand. Maybe you know more.
For how many generations do finches remain finches, and what criteria would designate a non-finch descendant?
Why are you unable to extrapolate? Why is it so hard to understand that enough small changes might accumulate into big changes?
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
They did.


There have been many. Even Einstein's fudge factor.

I haven't seen that many pieces of evidence though they exist, If you can ever find out how life began to exist from non-life.

Enjoy,
People drive cars, we fly, we diagnose and cure diseases, we create nuclear power, we create computers -- all based on verified discoveries and knowledge uncovered by science.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
In 1922, paleontologist Henry Fairfield Osborn described Hesperopitbased on a single tooth found in Nebraska. Tha tooth actually belonged to an extinct species of peccary a pig-like animal.

Then there was the Piltdown man that turned out to be a complete hoax.

Enjoy,
And the only reason you know about these two being false, is because science exposed them as such. :shrug:
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
There have been five mass extinction events in Earth’s history, at least since 500 million years ago, and about 29 more.

Life appears to have recovered faster than we thought after the worst mass extinction event in our planet's history, nicknamed the Great Dying.

New evidence suggests that once the Permian-Triassic extinction hit Earth 252 million years ago, life rebounded in 1 million years - a far cry from the 10 to 20 million years that previous research has indicated.


The extinction event has been linked to a combination of volcanic activity and a runaway greenhouse effect, and was responsible for obliterating 9 in 10 marine species, and 7 in 10 land species.

Enjoy,
The claim you were asked to support was that "there wasn't enough time" for evolution.
Nobody will argue with you that there have been mass extinction events in the past.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Answer to #1 - if you believe it supports or contradicts the theory of evolution, that depends on you.

The question is asking what YOU believe.

It doesn't matter what you BELIEVE -- because -- finches remain finches thus far as I know. Maybe you KNOW more than that. If you can discern the answer to your question, so be it. If not, also so be it

You seem to be saying that you think that the statement contradicts evolution theory. Is that correct?

. #2a&b are up to you -- to decide.

Again, I am asking YOU.


You completely avoid to answer the questions. It's almost as if you know that your responses will expose either willful ignorance or intellectual dishonesty.


If you wish to try again and actually answer the questions asked, as asked, go for it.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
You and others want to misinterpret what I said.

How so?

MEANTIME, what information do you have that shows you know for certain that fish became, evolved to, human beings?

DNA.


And from what other fish they evolved from? While you're at it, the only explanation I can think of that scientists might use to explain why nothing has been observed to demonstrate that finches evolve to anything other than finches, or viruses evolve to something other than viruses is that there's not enough time to observe if they do, according to the theory.

No. It's, for the upteenth time, because evolution is a vertical process which results in SUB species.

Meaning that one never outgrows its ancestry.
What you call "fish" in the ancestral lineage of humans, are actually vertebrates that lived in the sea. Humans "remain" vertebrates. They were not "modern fish".
Salmons are not your ancestors.


So the descendants of finches, no matter how many millions of years into the future, will still remain withing the lineage of finches.

This has been explained to you so many times, it's not even funny that it still hasn't found its way into your brain.

So try to remember it this time: IF FINCHES EVOLVED INTO NON-FINCHES, THEN EVOLUTION WOULD BE DISPROVEN
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
There have been several extinctions events in the past and shortly new creatures appeared without enough time for evolution to produce them.

Enjoy.

Show us the evidence of that. I guarantee that you can't.

In fruit fly experiments done at my old grad alma mater, new species of fruit flies could appear within 10 years. That's reality, not imagination.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
How so?



DNA.




No. It's, for the upteenth time, because evolution is a vertical process which results in SUB species.

Meaning that one never outgrows its ancestry.
What you call "fish" in the ancestral lineage of humans, are actually vertebrates that lived in the sea. Humans "remain" vertebrates. They were not "modern fish".
Salmons are not your ancestors.


So the descendants of finches, no matter how many millions of years into the future, will still remain withing the lineage of finches.

This has been explained to you so many times, it's not even funny that it still hasn't found its way into your brain.

So try to remember it this time: IF FINCHES EVOLVED INTO NON-FINCHES, THEN EVOLUTION WOULD BE DISPROVEN
I don't think you're going to see finches evolve into non-finches, just like I don't think you're going to see fish "evolve" to humans. Period. And bye for now, take care, enjoy celebrating Christmas while you and fellow celebrants believe in evolution, :) Have a good one!
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Show us the evidence of that. I guarantee that you can't.

In fruit fly experiments done at my old grad alma mater, new species of fruit flies could appear within 10 years. That's reality, not imagination.
Insofar as miracles vs. magic and "evidence" -- how about Jesus being born of a virgin, going to heaven, meeting Paul on the road to Damascus. That's kinda why I got on here to begin with...so glad I did, and so I thank you very much!
Myth? Magic? Miracles? hmmm...Easter eggs, ok...chocolate ok..evolution -- ok...:)
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Show us the evidence of that. I guarantee that you can't.

In fruit fly experiments done at my old grad alma mater, new species of fruit flies could appear within 10 years. That's reality, not imagination.
Did these experiments keep going to see just how much they developed into different species-- of fruit flies? Guess there wasn't enough time for them to get to be not fruit flies -- unless, of course, as some people say humans are fish...maybe not fruit flies -- I'll look at the taxonomic figurations of the figuring of scientists as to what happened if fruit flies evolved according to science to something other than -- fruit flies...good question! Thanks, or really perhaps some might say gorillas are fruit flies. But no! They're FISH! Now I'll have to see what came first -- :) fruit flies or fish.
 
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