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On Evolution & Creation

icant

Member
If you think a designer exists why does it let children die of cancer? This is the dilemma with claiming design is how tear ducts exist or any other complex system.
If the designer started with two, a male and a female and the male lived for 930 years he would not have had those defects and neither would the female. So apparently those defects were acquired somewhere in the history of mankind.

Enjoy,
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
?
I Believe in evolution. I am a farm boy and was able to create some mighty fine animals on the farm. Hogy that weighed over 800 lbs. that was as durable as a wild hog in the woods. Chickens that laid nothing but double yoke eggs. Bulls that weighed over 2,000 lbs. Crops that produced twice the yield of normal crops. All of these were produced by using science. But just to leave them alone and in a few years, they would be returning to what they were before.

But that is all a moot point without having a life form to begin with.

You can spout all the things you can get from class room and books about what other people believe and expound upon but until you give me a life form to begin with to evolve you are just telling me a fairy tale that you have faith in.

The same goes for the BBT If you can not tell me where the hot, very dense thingmabob that expanded into the universe and all the energy required to build the universe out of came from you are just repeating a myth, that you bought into.

So welcome to the club of faith, even though, we believe in and have faith in different things.

Enjoy,
So now you are saying that God does not exist. That is at the least if you are going to be consistent
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
If the designer started with two, a male and a female and the male lived for 930 years he would not have had those defects and neither would the female. So apparently those defects were acquired somewhere in the history of mankind.

Enjoy,
While I think I understand your concept there, that they sinned and did what God explicitly told them not to do (otherwise they would die...) ensured that they would not continue living. They bought into sin, one way or the other. Eve was deceived the Bible says. Adam was not. Nevertheless, they both died.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I Googled this: How does the eye the tear duct the blinking all function together? This came up on the first page:

When you blink, your tear glands located above the eye produce tears which spread across the surface of your eye, lubricating it and washing away debris; these tears then drain through small openings in the inner corner of the eye called tear ducts, eventually flowing into the nasal cavity through a drainage system in the nose, effectively cleaning and moistening the eye with each blink.

For all this to exist and work together, would anyone say this was by design or not by design?


I googled it and it had some interesting information, reminding me that when I BLINK, tears move across my eye lubricating it. Thank you, Walt!
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
If the designer started with two, a male and a female and the male lived for 930 years he would not have had those defects and neither would the female. So apparently those defects were acquired somewhere in the history of mankind.

Enjoy,
It's called sin.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
If the designer started with two, a male and a female and the male lived for 930 years he would not have had those defects and neither would the female. So apparently those defects were acquired somewhere in the history of mankind.

Enjoy,
And if they were acquired it’s because the designer had it as part of the plan.

Or is the designer sloppy and can’t foresee the future?

The fact is defects and diseases exist, and if a designer caused everything that exists it is accountable.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Where do you get that number? That isn't even close to the number of scientists in the US or the globally. I'm skeptical.

Most surveys indicate that 98% of scientists accept (not believe in as if it is a religion) the theory of evolution. That would come to millions of scientists.

Science isn't something someone can learn over a weekend, that is for sure. I've been studying since I was young. Biology, chemistry, physics, geology, ecology are just some of the areas I've spent time learning. There are more subdisciplines I've had course work in and hands on experience with.

I would suggest a biology textbook and perhaps some popular works about evolution. Books by the paleontologist Donald Prothero, the biologist Jerry Coyne, "What evolution is" by the late Ernst Mayr, or Ken Miller's "Only a theory". There are so many, just do a Google search.
Biology textbooks still show DNA, without the double helix of water, that is needed to make the DNA bioactive. Those textbook images are obsolete and misleading. It is like a computer without software, pretending the hardware does the work of the software; black box. That is obsolete mythology. If you extrapolate from that weak foundation, how can the current conclusions be considered state of the art? This is why the black box cheat is needed. Real science does not need to cheat. Margin or error means bad data from an obsolete theory, fudged to look better.

We need to add water to the DNA foundation, and then start doing the real 2024 biology, needed to explain the true nature of evolution. I already did it.

It turns out that water is the key, since it impacts more just the DNA. Life will not work without water and nothing in the cell works without water, nor will these work in other solvents. You add water, you add life. Natural selection behind evolution is not just outside life, but life also evolves internally, by natural selection, via the internal nano-scale water environment. How else can you explain everything in cells tuned to just water? Water selected them all. Bad science has fried too many brains to where the obvious is not obvious.

For example, cell membranes form because of water. Water and oil do not mix but will separate. Amphipathic lipids has both polar ends and non polar tails, when the bulk water and this oily material separates, you get a micelle, with the polar ends touch water and the oily tails avoiding water to lower the system surface tension. This is not black box but follows simple logic. It would not have taken million years of random trial and error form a membrane, but rather with the right materials, it can happens in minutes. Water gives order.

Lipid-arrangements.png
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Biology textbooks still show DNA, without the double helix of water, that is needed to make the DNA bioactive. Those textbook images are obsolete and misleading. It is like a computer without software, pretending the hardware does the work of the software; black box. That is obsolete mythology. If you extrapolate from that weak foundation, how can the current conclusions be considered state of the art? This is why the black box cheat is needed. Real science does not need to cheat. Margin or error means bad data from an obsolete theory, fudged to look better.

We need to add water to the DNA foundation, and then start doing the real 2024 biology, needed to explain the true nature of evolution. I already did it.

It turns out that water is the key, since it impacts more just the DNA. Life will not work without water and nothing in the cell works without water, nor will these work in other solvents. You add water, you add life. Natural selection behind evolution is not just outside life, but life also evolves internally, by natural selection, via the internal nano-scale water environment. How else can you explain everything in cells tuned to just water? Water selected them all. Bad science has fried too many brains to where the obvious is not obvious.

For example, cell membranes form because of water. Water and oil do not mix but will separate. Amphipathic lipids has both polar ends and non polar tails, when the bulk water and this oily material separates, you get a micelle, with the polar ends touch water and the oily tails avoiding water to lower the system surface tension. This is not black box but follows simple logic. It would not have taken million years of random trial and error form a membrane, but rather with the right materials, it can happens in minutes. Water gives order.

Lipid-arrangements.png


We have known that life needs water for forever practically. You have not made a big discovery.

In other words: So what?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Where did your god come from? Don't say it always existed since everything must come from something as you claim, because that would be special pleading.
Enjoy.
What you are doing is deliberately distorting and misrepresenting. That you cannot understand that God always was, always is, and will always be is understandable because it does not reach you right now. But have a good day as long as there are days...:)
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
What you are doing is deliberately distorting and misrepresenting. That you cannot understand that God always was, always is, and will always be is understandable because it does not reach you right now. But have a good day as long as there are days...:)
How is he doing that? Others have shown how you apparently distort and misrepresent science. How did he distort your beliefs?
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
What you are doing is deliberately distorting and misrepresenting. That you cannot understand that God always was, always is, and will always be is understandable because it does not reach you right now. But have a good day as long as there are days...:)
None of this is factual. No gods are known to exist, and believers can’t present any compelling evidence.

Believers like yourself assume your Bible stories are true, and assume the character of God is real. You can present your interpretation and beliefs but they fail against evidence and reason.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
No matter how many times that is said, the idea of what evolution is as many conceive and accept it does not make it true. And, from what I see, no matter how many times someone says the theory is lacking (without substance in actuality or realtime despite birds beaks changing or colors changing) that, too, is obviously going to be contested. Thus, there is no meeting ground insofar as I see it now. But thank you for your respectful and intelligent replies insofar as you absorb and believe the theory in all its aspects. I respect your portrayal of the theory, but do not go along with it because of the intricacies involved and the lack of real-time explanatory biologic happenings within cells and organisms plus the history of such. Hope you understand. Thanks.
The theory of evolution is observable, well evidenced, productive, predictive, and tested . Magic poofing is none of these. You choose to believe the evidenced over the unevidenced. So be it.
You keep bringing up finches and birds' beaks. Nobody's using these as evidence for evolution these days. They were observations that originally gave Darwin the idea of species changing over time; historically interesting, but not what biologists are studying today.

Small changes accumulate into big changes, given enough time. You seem to be ignoring the time and accumulation aspect and expecting major changes to occur suddenly and overnight.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If the designer started with two, a male and a female and the male lived for 930 years he would not have had those defects and neither would the female. So apparently those defects were acquired somewhere in the history of mankind.

Enjoy,
Either that or the 930 year premise is untrue.
 
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