On Genesis and Exodus

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Translation of Mausala Parva by Kesari Mohan Ganguli

Ganguli, Musala Ch 6 end.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

"Idhar ki int, udhar ka roda, Bhanmati ne kunba joda"
(take a brick from here, and a stone from there, and that is how Bhanmati made her home)
i.e., forcibly joining two unrelated things to make up a story.
So Krishna is Moses and Rama is Adam (Is not Ramasetu known as Adam's Bridge?)
Krishna did not leave or an unknown country, he went to heaven (if you go by Mahabharata).

“A fierce hunter of the name of Jara then came there, desirous of deer. The hunter, mistaking Kesava, who was stretched on the earth in high Yoga, for a deer, pierced him at the heel with a shaft and quickly came to that spot for capturing his prey. Coming up, Jara beheld a man dressed in yellow robes, rapt in Yoga and endued with many arms. Regarding himself an offender, and filled with fear, he touched the feet of Kesava. The high-souled one comforted him and then ascended upwards, filling the entire welkin with splendour. When he reached Heaven,
Vasava and the twin Aswins and Rudra and the Adityas and the Vasus and the Viswedevas, and Munis and Siddhas and many foremost ones among the Gandharvas, with the Apsaras, advanced to receive him. Then, O king, .."
Translation of Mausala Parva by Kesari Mohan Ganguli - https://www.yorku.ca/inpar/mausala_ganguli.pdf

dybmh, you get some information here: Sarasvati River - Wikipedia
Bharat Jhunjhunwala does not discuss history, he creates his own.
Further, if you do not mind, would you kindly PM me your real name. 'dybmh' is sort of too complicated (or did you do that earlier?)..

Please see the below screenshot from Ganguli.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Vasudev did not know, but Vaishampayana knew that very clearly. Krishna went to Vaikuntha.
Do you know better than the writer, VedaVyasa, or the narrator, Vaishampayana?

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

I think I understand your point of view, but, when I look up this story with Jarasandh, it is not at all similar to Moses.

The reason these stories in the Hebrew bible are adopted by so many is because they *resonate* in spite of geographic divergence. I think it is perfectly natural. But I do not understand thee desire to change the story, and move it to different location.

Jarasandha - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Here is the death scene for Jarasandha. It doesn't match the exodus story. None of it matches very well by my estimation.

​

"Krishna then hinted Bhima that when fatigued, a person might die if pressed too hard. Bhima understood Krishna's hint, lifted Jarasandha in the air and pressed his knee against Jarasandha's backbone, killing him instantly."​

View attachment 82974

We seem to have got mixed up.
1. Moses killed a Mitsrite and fled. This Mitsrite was Kamsa who was killed by Krishna. Krishna went to study under Sandipanai thereafter. Sandipani is Jethro.
2. Moses returned to Mistrayim-Goshen. He went to the Pharaoh. The plagues took place here. This could be Pharaoh Jarasandha.
There are silences in both Biblical and Hindu stories. The Bible does not tell of the duel; the Hindu does not tell of crossing the Yam Suf. We cannot assume contradiction when there is silence.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Vasudev did not know, but Vaishampayana knew that very clearly. Krishna went to Vaikuntha.
Do you know better than the writer, VedaVyasa, or the narrator, Vaishampayana?

Yes Krishna went to Vaikuntha but that was at Mount Hor (Kangavar, known as "Enclosure of Kanha") after he left Indus Valley for Israel.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Vaikuntha is not a mountaineous place. It is a place of rolling meadows.

 

[dybmh]

We seem to have got mixed up.
1. Moses killed a Mitsrite and fled. This Mitsrite was Kamsa who was killed by Krishna.

Where is this story of Kamsa? It needs to be read and analyzed. The details, I am quite sure will show that it is not a match at all. If they were a close match with many points of of commonality, you would saying more than this.

Please bring the actual story of Kamso and Krishna?

Krishna went to study under Sandipanai thereafter. Sandipani is Jethro.

Pleasse bring the story of Krishna and Sandipanai? It needs to be read and analyzed. The details, I am quite sure will show that it is not a match at all. If they were a close match with many points of of commonality, you would saying more than this.

2. Moses returned to Mistrayim-Goshen. He went to the Pharaoh. The plagues took place here. This could be Pharaoh Jarasandha.
There are silences in both Biblical and Hindu stories. The Bible does not tell of the duel; the Hindu does not tell of crossing the Yam Suf. We cannot assume contradiction when there is silence.

It would be good to read the actual story instead of you retelling it. I did not say that there is contradiction, only that the stories do not match. They are clearly different stories. If they were a close match with many points of of commonality, you would saying more than this.

This is the story that I have regarding Jarasandha ( pharoah ). If there is no duel, then there is no meeting. There is nothing here in the story of Jarasandha ( pharoah ) which matches. Nothing. Zero. It's not a contradiction, it's divergent. Disjointed. Unconnected. Incoherent.

​

Krishna, Bhima, and Arjuna disguised as brahmins traveled to Magadha and met Jarasandha. After a formal meeting, Jarasandha enquired about their intentions. Krishna, Bhima, and Arjuna revealed their actual identities. Krishna then challenged Jarasandha for a duel and gave him the freedom to choose any one belligerent. Jarasandha selected Bhima for a duel. Both Bhima and Jarasandha were accomplished wrestlers. The duel continued for several days and neither of them was willing to give up. After a long battle, Jarasandha grew tired. Krishna then hinted Bhima that when fatigued, a person might die if pressed too hard. Bhima understood Krishna's hint, lifted Jarasandha in the air and pressed his knee against Jarasandha's backbone, killing him instantly.​

​

This does not match the exoddus story at all.

1. Krishna (moses), Bhima, and Arjuna disguised as brahmins traveled to Magadha and met Jarasandha.
2. Krishna (moses) then challenged Jarasandha for a duel and gave him the freedom to choose any one belligerent
3. Jarasandha selected Bhima for a duel
4. The duel continued for several days and neither of them was willing to give up.
5. Jarasandha grew tired
6. Krishna then hinted
7. Bhima understood Krishna's hint,
8. Bhima lifted Jarasandha in the air and pressed his knee against Jarasandha's backbone, killing him instantly

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Vaikuntha is not a mountaineous place. It is a place of rolling meadows.

Makes no difference. And I never said what it was. You wanted reference of Krishna going from India. I provided you. Pl reply to that point.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Where is this story of Kamsa? It needs to be read and analyzed. The details, I am quite sure will show that it is not a match at all. If they were a close match with many points of of commonality, you would saying more than this.

Please bring the actual story of Kamso and Krishna?



Pleasse bring the story of Krishna and Sandipanai? It needs to be read and analyzed. The details, I am quite sure will show that it is not a match at all. If they were a close match with many points of of commonality, you would saying more than this.




It would be good to read the actual story instead of you retelling it. I did not say that there is contradiction, only that the stories do not match. They are clearly different stories. If they were a close match with many points of of commonality, you would saying more than this.

This is the story that I have regarding Jarasandha ( pharoah ). If there is no duel, then there is no meeting. There is nothing here in the story of Jarasandha ( pharoah ) which matches. Nothing. Zero. It's not a contradiction, it's divergent. Disjointed. Unconnected. Incoherent.

​

Krishna, Bhima, and Arjuna disguised as brahmins traveled to Magadha and met Jarasandha. After a formal meeting, Jarasandha enquired about their intentions. Krishna, Bhima, and Arjuna revealed their actual identities. Krishna then challenged Jarasandha for a duel and gave him the freedom to choose any one belligerent. Jarasandha selected Bhima for a duel. Both Bhima and Jarasandha were accomplished wrestlers. The duel continued for several days and neither of them was willing to give up. After a long battle, Jarasandha grew tired. Krishna then hinted Bhima that when fatigued, a person might die if pressed too hard. Bhima understood Krishna's hint, lifted Jarasandha in the air and pressed his knee against Jarasandha's backbone, killing him instantly.​

​

This does not match the exoddus story at all.

1. Krishna (moses), Bhima, and Arjuna disguised as brahmins traveled to Magadha and met Jarasandha.
2. Krishna (moses) then challenged Jarasandha for a duel and gave him the freedom to choose any one belligerent
3. Jarasandha selected Bhima for a duel
4. The duel continued for several days and neither of them was willing to give up.
5. Jarasandha grew tired
6. Krishna then hinted
7. Bhima understood Krishna's hint,
8. Bhima lifted Jarasandha in the air and pressed his knee against Jarasandha's backbone, killing him instantly

This could be Pharaoh Jarasandha.
There are silences in both Biblical and Hindu stories. The Bible does not tell of the duel; the Hindu does not tell of crossing the Yam Suf.

I wrote "could be" Jarasandha. I stand corrected. Thank you for pointing. There is no story of 10 plagues in the Hindu texts. No Pharoah of Exodus. Hindus attribute the Exodus to natural disasters. The corrected joint timeline:
1. Moses killed a Mitsrite and fled. This Mitsrite was Kamsa who was killed by Krishna. Krishna went to study under Sandipanai thereafter. Sandipani is Jethro. [Yes, I welcome you to study this].
2. Moses returned to Mistrayim-Goshen. He had a duel with Pharaoh Jarasandha at this time. [Bible is silent]
3. Moses went to the Pharaoh. The plagues took place here. [Hindu texts are silent on this].
4. Moses led the Exodus out of India. Krishna led the Yadavas out of Dwarka due to natural causes.
5. The killing of Hebrew brothers at Sinai is parallel to the killings of Yadavas at Prabhasa.

There are silences in both Biblical and Hindu stories. The Bible does not tell of the duel; the Hindu does not tell of crossing the Yam Suf. We cannot assume contradiction when there is silence.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Makes no difference. And I never said what it was. You wanted reference of Krishna going from India. I provided you. Pl reply to that point.

He did not only go from Prabhasa Kshetra, India, but from the whole world to his abode in Vaikuntha which is not in this world, as what he came for was accomlished. You have some proof that he landed up and wandered for 40 years in Sinai?

Daniel, you may start with this: Kamsa - Wikipedia
As for Jhunjhunwala, he decided that Yadavas went to Israel with Krishna under a new name, Moses. Now every other thing has to fall in line with that. Whatever Bible or Hindu scriptures say is immaterial (Edit: for him).

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

He did not only go from Prabhasa Kshetra, India, but from the whole world to his abode in Vaikuntha which is not in this world, as what he came for was accomlished. You have some proof that he landed up and wandered for 40 years in Sinai?

Daniel, you may start with this: Kamsa - Wikipedia
As for Jhunjhunwala, he decided that Yadavas went to Israel with Krishna under a new name, Moses. Now every other thing has to fall in line with that. Whatever Bible or Hindu scriptures say is immaterial.

Do you have any evidence that Moses went from egypt. Where is yam such? Where is Sinai volcano.? Do not keep raising new points. First concede all points you raised and I replied. Then we can continue discussion. Bye for now.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Do you have any evidence that Moses went from egypt. Where is yam such? Where is Sinai volcano.? Do not keep raising new points. First concede all points you raised and I replied. Then we can continue discussion. Bye for now.

Why should I worry about Egypt, Yam or Moses. I do not follow Abrahamic religions. Whether there are volcanoes or not too, is not my concern.
I am concerned only about your misrepresentation of Krishna.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Whatever Bible or Hindu scriptures say is immaterial.

Where is yam such?

Gotta love it!

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Why should I worry about Egypt, Yam or Moses. I do not follow Abrahamic religions. Whether there are volcanoes or not too, is not my concern.
I am concerned only about your misrepresentation of Kris

Since u have no reply to ganguli and ALL other points discussed till now, you are most welcome. Bye for now.

 

[Aupmanyav]

But Sage Vaishampayana said that Lord Krishna went to heaven in his abode at Vaikuntha and he had nothing more to do in the world. That is what Mahabharata says according to Kerari Mohan Ganguli's translation.

 

[dybmh]

Hindus attribute the Exodus to natural disasters. The corrected joint timeline:

The word "corrected" here is highly offensive to me. I've decided to put you on ignore.

Moses killed a Mitsrite and fled. This Mitsrite was Kamsa who was killed by Krishna. Krishna went to study under Sandipanai thereafter. Sandipani is Jethro. [Yes, I welcome you to study this].
2. Moses returned to Mistrayim-Goshen. He had a duel with Pharaoh Jarasandha at this time. [Bible is silent]
3. Moses went to the Pharaoh. The plagues took place here. [Hindu texts are silent on this].
4. Moses led the Exodus out of India. Krishna led the Yadavas out of Dwarka due to natural causes.
5. The killing of Hebrew brothers at Sinai is parallel to the killings of Yadavas at Prabhasa.

You're writing your own bible? Goodbye. I think that's a remarkably stupid idea. How about this? Write about your own culture.