On the showing of the “pride flag, and appropriate activism.

[SomeRandom]

As I say above, it works against normalization within contexts like mine, where acceptance and understanding are now generalized.

My parents used to volunteer quite heavily with the local Audubon, in maintaining trails, etc. They ceased all that absolutely several years ago. I don’t have a relationship at all with my padres, so I cannot ask them, but now suspect that their reason for ceasing might include a feeling of alienation if they perceived “in your face” expressions of LGBT paraphernalia. I don’t consider them homophobic at all, but I can easily see how any such expressions of partisan solidarity, even if it were the display of an ethnic flag or that horrendous “cop flag” I noted above, would make them feel uncomfortable enough to step away.

Again, a reaction that is far more telling about said folks than the Alphabet Soup community

Like for example, some might say that straight people are constantly shoving their experiences down the throats of others.
How often in public do you see couples holding hands?
See people showing off their wedding rings?
See straight couples in movies, shows, ads (at least here) kissing or other things, depending on the rating lol
How often do you hear men complain about their wives, women complain about their husbands. Usually in a joking manner.
But as soon as the gay community does anything to show pride or display who they are or even just display a freaking rainbow, suddenly that’s alienating.
Geez. Sounds a little spoilt brat like, wouldn’t you say?

And older generations are usually put off or feel alienated by things done by the younger generations. That’s a tale as old as time. Freaking Socrates spoke about that!

I’ll bet similar things were said by the community when interracial coupling was starting to become prominent in society
“Oh they just love to shove it down our throats” is a message I’ve seen in many a historical newspaper from the times. Just saying.

The rainbow flag isn’t indicative of exclusivity of the LGBT+ community. Straight people are more than welcome in said community. I’m straight and I’ve never been excluded by my rainbow friends and family. Ever. Why should I feel excluded by the rainbow? Again says far more about the person feeling such angst at seeing this flag than displaying this flag ever does

Granted you said yourself you can’t confirm whether this reaction was due to said flag from your parents. I’m just going by the assumption that you presented

 

[fantome profane]

Come on, now…we’re not talking about rainbows.

It is, or an artist rendering of such.

As I say above, it works against normalization within contexts like mine, where acceptance and understanding are now generalized.

My parents used to volunteer quite heavily with the local Audubon, in maintaining trails, etc. They ceased all that absolutely several years ago. I don’t have a relationship at all with my padres, so I cannot ask them, but now suspect that their reason for ceasing might include a feeling of alienation if they perceived “in your face” expressions of LGBT paraphernalia. I don’t consider them homophobic at all, but I can easily see how any such expressions of partisan solidarity, even if it were the display of an ethnic flag or that horrendous “cop flag” I noted above, would make them feel uncomfortable enough to step away.

So you don't object to the idea of the Audubon society being tolerant, as long as it doesn't show.

And I have always been confused by the expression "in your face". What exactly do you mean by that phrase? "In your face" would be something like this.

That is "in your face". And I assume nothing like that happened.

What you mean is just that the flag was visible, and not stuffed in a closet.

I think something need to be more than just visible to be referred to as "in your face". Don't you?

 

[Viker]

I don't see the problem. Seems like a nothing burger or just a pointless reason to complain about something.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That’s not true. I am saying that there are somewhat objective criteria which can be used to make such determinations, and would do so better than leaving it to individual, subjective feelings. How do you expect people to begin thinking of private sexuality as being of no consequence if you continually push forth the issue of sexuality upon them?

They are not objective. They are always subjective. Your feelings of appropriate are nothing but individual subjective feelings in you.
Well, sexuality is always there. You are just saying in effect that you are used to some norms of it, but not others.

 

[Zwing]

What about within contexts unlike yours, where acceptance and understanding are limited or nonexistent?

Then, I consider it appropriate to display the flag where there is reason to do so. There is a guy in my neighborhood who displays the flag at his house; I think that appropriate because he is a homosexual (which I know because we have become friendly). If everybody on the street were to begin displaying the flag on their houses, however, I would consider it inappropriate, since there seems no reason for them to do so…all that should be expected of them is the opinion that sexuality is of little consequence. Of course, if someone who was previously an expressive homophobe, and has changed his views on the matter, the it would certainly be appropriate for him to fly the flag in order to express his change of opinion with respect to his homosexual neighbors.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Cutely phrased, but no. I am saying that they should perhaps not fly the flag because there is no reason to do so within that context, they’re seeming to be no valid supposition of homophobia within the environmentalist context. Oh my, I forgot about all those Greenpeace activists with their “back into the closet” campaign… (see the absurdity now?)

That you write that is as subjective a case of reasoing, as they choose to do it.
In effect you are saying that society must behave as you find appropriate based on your subjectivity.
As long as you don't recognozie that, we can't move this debate further.

 

[Viker]

What you mean is just that the flag was visible, and not stuffed in a closet.

There. That's the whole point of the OP. It's not in a closet somewhere. Thank you.

It must be "in somebody's face" if it's not in a closet. Apparently for some this is how it works.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Then, I consider it appropriate to display the flag where there is reason to do so. There is a guy in my neighborhood who displays the flag at his house; I think that appropriate because he is a homosexual (which I know because we have become friendly). If everybody on the street were to begin displaying the flag on their houses, however, I would consider it inappropriate, since there seems no reason for them to do so…all that should be expected of them is the opinion that sexuality is of little consequence. Of course, if someone who was previously an expressive homophobe, and has changed his views on the matter, the it would certainly be appropriate for him to fly the flag in order to express his change of opinion with respect to his homosexual neighbors.

Try to take a birds view. Sorry but I had to. Look at the media landscape of all of LGBTQ+ and don't just make it about the homosexiual part of it.

 

[Zwing]

They are not objective. They are always subjective. Your feelings of appropriate are nothing but individual subjective feelings in you.

There are levels of objectivity, but let’s avoid becoming too philosophical about this issue, as it is difficult enough on its own right.

Well, sexuality is always there. You are just saying in effect that you are used to some norms of it, but not others.

This thread is not even about the sexuality, but about expressions of “solidarity” and “social justice”, and where they are and are not appropriate.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

There are levels of objectivity, but let’s avoid becoming too philosophical about this issue, as it is difficult enough on its own right.

This thread is not even about the sexuality, but about expressions of “solidarity” and “social justice”, and where they are and are not appropriate.

There are no level of objectivity here. It is a binary of objective or subjective.

The second part as relevant from the ,but about... are all cases of the subjective.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I get what you are saying, but think that the whole "Pride" thingy went to hell in a handbasket as soon as corporate America got involved and now "Pride" has infected almost every aspect of "western" society.

Exactly. I don't even want to go to Pride anymore. I don't care about rainbows and all that nonsense. It's barely about gay stuff anymore, anyway. I can do without seeing another grown man wearing a diaper and woman's stockings, too. *Vomits*

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Exactly. I don't even want to go to Pride anymore. I don't care about rainbows and all that nonsense. It's barely about gay stuff anymore, anyway.

Fair enough. That is your choice and you do you.

 

[fantome profane]

There are levels of objectivity, but let’s avoid becoming too philosophical about this issue, as it is difficult enough on its own right.

This thread is not even about the sexuality, but about expressions of “solidarity” and “social justice”, and where they are and are not appropriate.

And this thread is about who gets to decide where they are appropriate.

You think this was inappropriate. If you have learned nothing else from this thread you have seen that many people disagree. And obviously someone at the Audubon society disagrees with your position as well.

 

[Zwing]

There. That's the whole point of the OP. It's not in a closet somewhere. Thank you.

It must be "in somebody's face" if it's not in a closet. Apparently for some this is how it works.

Then, why should it be displayed at the Audubon Center? Are we to assume that if it is not, that the Audubon Society is homophobic? If I open a diner like @Jayhawker Soule’s Hartland, and I don’t display a pride flag and a BLM flag, then I am to be surmised to be homophobic and racist?? Is this the implication?

 

[Viker]

Exactly. I don't even want to go to Pride anymore. I don't care about rainbows and all that nonsense. It's barely about gay stuff anymore, anyway. I can do without seeing anothet grown man wearing a diaper and woman's stockings, too. *Vomits*

I guess you've never been to a Primus concert. I'll try to find footage of Maynard doing just that.

 

[fantome profane]

Then, why should it be displayed at the Audubon Center? Are we to assume that if it is not, that the Audubon Society is homophobic? If I open a diner like @Jayhawker Soule’s Hartland, and I don’t display a pride flag and a BLM flag, then I am to be surmised to be homophobic and racist?? Is this the implication?

You are to assume someone there wanted to display their support for the lgbtq community.

 

[Zwing]

Try to take a birds view. Sorry but I had to. Look at the media landscape of all of LGBTQ+ and don't just make it about the homosexiual part of it.

I’m not, I just don’t want to be typing all day to get it out.

 

[Viker]

Then, why should it be displayed at the Audubon Center? Are we to assume that if it is not, that the Audubon Society is homophobic? If I open a diner like @Jayhawker Soule’s Hartland, and I don’t display a pride flag and a BLM flag, then I am to be surmised to be homophobic and racist?? Is this the implication?

No. They're just showing support. They don't have to do it. But, from me, it's appreciated.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I’m not, I just don’t want to be typing all day to get it out.

Fair enough.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'd like flags to raise awareness of how
Americans would take one look and think
I dont speak English, then say they cant understand me when I do.
Another for past and present " systemic"
anti asian discrmination.

"Fewer" not "less". "Less" is for things you cannot count.
Like air.

You're really going there?
Perhaps your neck o' the woods just has a problem with manners.