On the showing of the “pride flag, and appropriate activism.

[Father Heathen]

If certain Republicans get elected they may be.

It's been said that "when Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross".

 

[Subduction Zone]

What I am trying to say is the reporting of this problem is far more than the actuality.

What I am pushing back against is that the "gay" community needs any special attention or protection these days -- at all. I'm not buying it.
What I am running into nowadays is a "staight" community that is tripping over itself to be allies to a group that no longer needs allies.

I am not so sure about that. There is still a lot of discrimination against gay people. And we have a history of reminding people of how we screwed up in the past as a warning not to do it again. What do you think that St. Patrick's day is about? It is an almost nonexistent holiday in Ireland and the fact that it is one to some extent is more due to American influence than anything else. At one time the Irish were heavily discriminated against. Our discrimination against black people was even stronger and we are just now, in the last forty or fifty years anyway, starting to celebrate their part in US history. Such celebrations are merely part of the healing process.

 

[YmirGF]

I don't think anyone expects a perfect world, but improving the world, or at least preventing it from becoming worse, will always be a constant, continuous effort. I think society has already displayed how easily it could backslide. For example, nobody thought Roe vs. Wade would be overturned, but here we are with people seeking to punish those who helped a raped ten year old seek an abortion.

Let's keep to one hot button issue at a time

I get what you are saying, but think that the whole "Pride" thingy went to hell in a handbasket as soon as corporate America got involved and now "Pride" has infected almost every aspect of "western" society.

Hot button return lob: Then again, forgive me if a bunch of peole who cannot define what a woman is, say they have gay folks backs... I wonder how they tell if someone is gay...... IS "gay" now "a non-woman who is sexually attracted to another non-woman". Like, if you wanna go down the Gender Inclusive Rabbit Hole.

 

[YmirGF]

It's been said that "when Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross".

I see the new fascists as having blue hair, nose rings and insisting on telling me their ever-elvolving pronouns.

 

[YmirGF]

I am not so sure about that. There is still a lot of discrimination against gay people. And we have a history of reminding people of how we screwed up in the past as a warning not to do it again. What do you think that St. Patrick's day is about? It is an almost nonexistent holiday in Ireland and the fact that it is one to some extent is more due to American influence than anything else. At one time the Irish were heavily discriminated against. Our discrimination against black people was even stronger and we are just now, in the last forty or fifty years anyway, starting to celebrate their part in US history. Such celebrations are merely part of the healing process.

If it was an organic thing I would be all in, but this is a manufactured thing, made for appearances. It's a chance for folks to pat themselves on the back and say, "Look at me!" I am very wary of trying to correct past wrongs. Sure, legistlate for situations going forward, but trying to correct the past is a fools errand, will ultimately help few and could make things much worse.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If it was an organic thing I would be all in, but this is a manufactured thing, made for appearances. It's a chance for folks to pat themselves on the back and say, "Look at me!" I am very wary of trying to correct past wrongs. Sure, legistlate for situations going forward, but trying to correct the past is a fools errand, will ultimately help few and could make things much worse.

What makes you think that it is not "organic"? Psychologists will tell you that being gay is not a choice. We see it all over the animal world. No one is saying that you have to be gay. No one is saying that you have to date a transgender person. "Gay rights" are just human rights applied to everyone.

 

[YmirGF]

"Gay rights" are just human rights applied to everyone.

So, everyone is gay now? *giggles*

It may have initially been an organic movement decades ago but now its all about corporate policy and virture signalling. Plus the "gay" thing has been replaced by the "Trans" thing.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I see the new fascists as having blue hair, nose rings and insisting on telling me their ever-elvolving pronouns.

Interesting equivalency ...

 

[Audie]

Interesting equivalency ...

It is.

 

[Altfish]

You trivialize a valid and, I think, important point.

Why?
It's not a Nazi flag. It is a friendly flag

 

[Zwing]

Part of the mission statement of Audubon society is about education. They are providing a service for people who want to learn about nature and the environment. And that means all people.

Right! This is my point. Why, then, emphasize a certain group of people? This is especially true in a day and age when homosexuality et. al. are considered…well…•shrug•

I think it is more than appropriate to make it clear that all people are welcome there.

Who has ever suggested differently? If we must overtly state that each subgroup of people is welcome there, we will need a ****load of flagpoles…

 

[Zwing]

Why?
It's not a Nazi flag. It is a friendly flag

Yeeess, but beside the point.

 

[fantome profane]

Right! This is my point. Why, then, emphasize a certain group of people? This is especially true in a day and age when homosexuality et. al. are considered…well…•shrug•

Who has ever suggested differently? If we must overtly state that each subgroup of people is welcome there, we will need a ****load of flagpoles…

A lot of people have suggested otherwise. Maybe not about the Audubon society specifically but in a lot of other places. And if you are correct in your presumption that all people have always been welcome then it seems all the more appropriate to display a rainbow flag.


Have you ever considered the symbolic meaning of the rainbow flag, and why a rainbow of all things was chosen? It is not a symbol of exclusion.

 

[Zwing]

…that means all people. I think it is more than appropriate to make it clear that all people are welcome there.

My opinion about particularizing LGBT… people is that it works very much against the goal of making such personal aspects socially inconsequential. Inconsequentiality should be suggested without overtly particularizing if it is to be achieved, since such particular Izard on always tends to have a Balkanizing and alienating effect.

 

[Zwing]

And if you are correct in your presumption that all people have always been welcome then it seems all the more appropriate to display a rainbow flag.

See above.

 

[fantome profane]

My opinion about particularizing LGBT… people is that it works very much against the goal of making such personal aspects socially inconsequential. Inconsequentiality should be suggested without overtly particularizing if it is to be achieved.

Words without meaning.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

So, everyone is gay now? *giggles*

It may have initially been an organic movement decades ago but now its all about corporate policy and virture signalling. Plus the "gay" thing has been replaced by the "Trans" thing.

Hey Paul, this is where you and I resume friendly but staunchly opposed antagonist behavior.

I do think everyone should be aware of corporate activism, because it is so surface level and designed to wring money out of it. Including corporations with a long history of siding with more conservative politicians, or at the very least siding first with their own pocketbook. I've certainly rolled my eyes at Marvel's '****** girl boss lesbian' moments, and how achingly contrived they were.

Not to say there isn't absolutely an opposite to that and the manufactured rage about beer or oreos or whatever the latest conservative boycott used to rally constituents behind talking heads. But the banter in the talking head world is exhausting and oh so fake. And I get anyone who is wary and weary of it.

At the same time thinking someone is illegitimately involved just because they have a business with a flag, or because of the color of their hair, is disingenuous too. Where I work we are only 20 minutes away from Portland and we've had people assaulted for being gay, lesbian bi and for being trans. It's a conservative farming town, and they exist in every blue states.

I do agree that trans topics are a more hot button topic with active legislation battles but they're just a wedge issue for conservatives to roll back from. With plenty having used trans as a starting point to talk about removing gay marriage again. And besides, people in the lgbt community *should* care about the Trans people being threatened among them because they were some of the very first civil rights activists even back to Stonewall. And a lot of them are being left behind in the same dregs of arguments that were used against gay people, and against black people. E.g. 'just a bunch of whiners wanting special rights, should be kept away from children, are lurking around pretending to be x to be dangerous to women.'

Because it is all so super connected. And still plenty of occasions for quoting Martin Niemöller. Because we're at the point where places are taking kids away from their trans parents now. Actual facism, not blue haired people asking you to use neopronouns.

 

[Zwing]

Words without meaning.

•tsk•, buy a dictionary, then.

 

[anna.]

I support the showing of the pride flag where doing so is appropriate and meaningful.

Who gets to decide when it's "appropriate and meaningful?"

 

[fantome profane]

•tsk•, buy a dictionary, then.

Oh I understand the words, but the way you place then together creates utter nonsense.

You suggest they could better symbolize inclusion by not being seen.