"On this Rock I will build my church"

[Kemosloby]

And yet the news tells a much different story. *sigh*


I thought "son of God" was an expression. We are all children of God, yes?


Jesus sins throughout, actually. Dishonors his parents, (depending on the author) promotes a god (himself) over the Father, steals (either directly or indirectly via vandalism), promotes bigotry towards gentiles (note that only gentiles have to CONVINCE him to help, whereas he just helps Jews no problem), is a hypocrite (don't do public worship or prayer ... except for all the times I am doing massive spectacles) ... etc, etc.


The funny thing is, I read the Mahabharata and the "heroes" in that story can be just as hypocritical. However, unlike the bible, it's refreshing to note the hypocrisy is acknowledged and dealt with. The NT, especially, tries to whitewash the hypocrisy just overflowing in its narratives.


And then Peter ...


You would think a divinely sent Messiah could think of something more mature to do then chase people out with whips.

God does it all the time in the bible.


A bush is odd. Men are a dime a dozen.


Who also was awfully quick to claim the hated Roman citizenship when he thought it'd get him out of trouble with the state...


He has to try to get his street cred back after being an obvious Hellenist Roman citizen. He turned against Judaism and stoning Christians. He became a Trojan Horse, realizing he wasn't stopping Christianity from without so he could do way more damage from within. The ACTUAL apostles who had ACTUALLY been with Jesus called him out on his lack of Jewishness and thus, this feeble attempt to prove he was still a Jew.


Paul is the Holy Ghost now? I mean, I know idolatry runs rampant throughout Christianity, but ...

You could add that Jesus was a drunkard like the Pharisees did. Matt 11:19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' But wisdom is proved right by her deeds."

 

[Ben Avraham]

The plural in Hebrew is always taken as two if it is not proceeded by a number. The 2 keys were given to Peter and the church.

Perhaps to Paul and the church? At least, we have evidences of the fact in Acts 11:26.

LUKE 11 : 52 "Woe to you experts in the law, because you haven taken away the KEY of knowledge."

Rather the opposite is true that the main role of the Law is to achieve all the knowledge we need.

The new church would have the Old Testament and the teachings of Jesus to aid them. s 8:9 "when I took them by the hand". He led them like the loving Father that he is. They however couldn't wrap their minds around that type of God.

Yes, unfortunately; nevertheless, of the others nations, the Lord will eventually get rid of them but of Israel, He will only chastise us as we deserve. (Jeremiah 46:28) How do you explain that? I think it is preferable to be chastised by the Lord Who is all merciful than to be made an end of us.

When the Jews got to Mount Sinai they asked for the pagan gods like they had back in Egypt. God as a loving father gave them their wish. They told Moses that they didn't want to hear or see this.

The teachings of Jesus were according to the Tanach aka his gospel. Since the urge to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)

The knowledge that Jesus was the Son of God, was the rock that the new church would be built on. Jesus had little resemblance to the god shown the Jews at Mount Sinai and for good reason. The Jews had grumbled that God had led them out into the desert just to be killed by the Egyptians when they saw them coming from the west as they were camped by the Red Sea. God saved them by opening the sea. A few days later they grumbled that God had saved them from the Egyptians just so they could die of thirst when they came to the acidic oasis. God then made the water drinkable at Marah and they praised him. A few days later though they started running low on food and they grumbled again that he had given them water just so they could starve to death. As it says in Hebrewgod again. God obliged them.

However, you have no evidence that He ever rejected us forever. He did reject the Tabernacle of Joseph aka the Ten Tribes but confirmed Judah, aka the Jewish People to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37) That's great! It means that the Father our God taught Jesus to teach every one to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16;29-31) Then, Paul came about teaching even the Jews to stop circumcising their children and abandon the customs of Moses. (Acts 21:21)

JOHN 5 : 43 "I have come in my Father's name, and you do not accept me" The Mount Sinai god said eye for eye. Jesus said no. The Mount Sinai god allowed divorce. Jesus said that was not how it was from the beginning and said it was allowed because they had hard hearts. Pagan gods come from the minds of men. And I am talking about males. They were the stronger and controlled religion. had to pay the father 50 shekels of silver. If a girl was caught having sex before marriage (not rape, just sex) she was stoned to death at her father's door. Since the Bible says God shows no favoritism it is an easy deduction that this was not a true reflection of God. Jesus came to show the truth about the Father.

DEUTERONOMY 18 : 15-18 "The Lord your God will raise up a prophet like me from among your own brothers. You must listen to him. For this is what you asked of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, 'Let us not hear the voice of the Lord our God nor see this great fire anymore or we will die.' The Lord said to me: 'What they say is good. I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him."

Think of how the Mount Sinai god reflected the thoughts of males. If a man was caught raping a girl he Then, the Lord commanded Moses to anoint Joshua as the prophet-like unto Moses that would be. Read Numbers 27:18-23.

As Jesus said: John 8 : 28 "I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught .

John 5:43 is pointing to Christians who refuse to accept Jesus as he was a Jew and talk about him as if he were a Christian. An eye for an eye is a reference to the law of cause and effect. It means that if you transgress the Law, you must pay for the consequences thereof. Right! Pagans gods came from the minds of men. That's why they carry them around in processions and worship them. The fictitious regulations about social behaviors being punishable with death never happened which means that they were mentioned only as deterrent to prevent the behavior.

JOHN 19 : 37 In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth." The entire Christian church worships this same pagan god.

And what is the Truth Jesus came to testify of? "The Law and the Prophets" if they don't speak according to this word it is because there is no truth in them. (Isaiah 8:20) That's why, in his parable of the Richman and Lazarus, Jesus said that we all must listen to "Moses" aka the Law in order to escape hell-fire. (Luke 16:29-31)

 

[Ben Avraham]

Hi Folks...

First let me assure you all that my mate Christ WAS NOT A JEW - not at all - He may have chosen that time place and culture but NO He did NOT advocate their god OR their "religion" at all and in fact repeatedly told the people to come away from the Pharisee who misleads them - to come away from the temple with its uselwss rituals prayers and doctrines - to avoid and shun all that aspect completely - and instead to seek the LEGITIMATE DIVINE that He said EMPHATICALLY that NOBODY had EVER known of or encountered EVER before !!

Great! Now, you have some questions to answer: First of all why would Jesus go through the process of being Jewish? Even circumcision on the 8th day of birth. What's the reason for the claim that he was the Messiah since the Messiah must be from the Tribe of Judah? A Gentile could not be from the Tribe of Judah. Why would his verdict for the reason he was crucified read INRI? If he was not Jewish, why would he be crucified for being acclaimed king of the Jews. Well, there are many more questions after your answers to those above. Are you still standing for your decision to deny Jesus his Jewishness?

 

[Ben Avraham]

So are you, since nobody ever called Judah Mighty God...
After all you said about jews not calling men God would they really ever call the returning Jews "Mighty God"?

Why not! This is nothing as pagans are concerned.

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Ben Avraham; Ah my friend if you can keep an open mind, then re read my post above - you will find I have actually already answered all your questions just in the paragraph you quoted...The clue is where He says Our Father that He is NOW teaching us of HAD NEVER BEEN ENCOUNTERED BEFORE - not even by the "Angels" above" He said.. Let it sink in deep - see the implications..??..

Now - be absolutely certain - He CAN NOT MEAN THE HEBREW GOD when He says that above, as look, the Jews ALREADY KNOW THEIR GOD dont they..?...Have had an intimate relationship ALREADY with that "god" for thousands of years BEFORE Christ came...And yet He says in a few places - NONE know the Father - NONE have EVER encountered the "heaven" (spiritual realm) which HE ALONE is from..Come to give you (all) SECRETS He said that have NEVER been contemplated before - He said so EXPLICITLY - and then He went ahead and EXPLAINED EVERYTHING - literally - from my Fathers first stirring Self aware "thought" through to mankind walks the Earth - and even beyond to what to expect when we die and leave this life behind....As said it is explicitly explained - in step by step detail...First He explains the Father - a purely abstract SPIRITUAL existance - He explains how and why this sovereign spirit CAUSES the creation of worlds and Souls to come forth.. Literally explains HOW CREATION HAPPENS - and then sets out the order and arrangement and heirachy OF that creation process..

He then continues and explains the CREATURES called forth by the Divine - Angels as we would term them - lists THEIR order of creation and heirchy - and finally tell us thta ONE such Angel is created by "mistake" - an "accident" - and it is THIS Angel that will then go on to create US mankind HERE in this universe...All of it recounted start to finish - and there is absolutely no way that the one we call Yhvh god of the Hebrews can be the Father SOURCE of Creation - it is obvious and clearly pointed out - indeed to give THIS truth is His entire agenda so He makes absolutely certain there is no confusion and as said lays it out step by tiny step for all to see clearly... The one we call "god Yhvh" is ACTUALLY an Angel - and it not even a top tier Angel - but comes much later, further down the heirachy of CREATED BEINGS (made exactly as You and I are made)...Indeed the term for this level of creation is an ARCHON - according to CHRIST DIRECTLY Yhvh IS an Archon - NOT a god - not fully Divine at all - but an "Angel" a CREATED entity - NOT the SOURCE of creation itself.. I speak about it in more detail here : http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...jehovah-is-not-your-name.181165/#post-4485291

Ok - so theres some background - read it first - let it sink in - see the implications first - then if questions remain , restate them and I will happily address them seperately if I still need...If you want or need to hear CHRIST say all that as i have said it, then please read the ORIGINAL gospel of the disciple John - NOT the bible version as he did NOT author or contribute to THAT version at all - but the ORIGINAL gospel that the church banned as "herasy" contains the ORIGINAL TRUTH that Christ revealed directly - because of the things it contains the religion could not allow it to become known so they forbid it to us as "herasy" and literally manufactured and made up the bible canon to mislead us all - protecting their own bogus power and status and that of their bogus "god" at the expense of legitimate Divine truth - but make no mistake that ORIGINAL gospel IS Christ speaking DIRECTLY to disciple - the god of the Hebrews is niot -CAN NOT BE - the Father that Christ alone reveals - and that is undeniable given all that He says - and dont forget EVER - they MURDER HIM for some reason yes..??...THIS is why - NOT Our Father - wrong god entirely

 

[Desert Snake]

Jews don't build churches and, Jesus and Peter were two Jewish gentlemen.

Your fictional version of the Scripture doesn't interest me.

 

[Desert Snake]

Didn't you read what I said above? A Jew would never say to another, you are the son of God. Peter was a Jew and so
was Jesus. Jesus was "son of man" and proved it by dying. Son of man means "mortal". No one could be a literal son of God. The Greek doctrine of the demigod had no place in Judaism. Hence, it was recorded in Mat. 1:18 as a piece of Hellenistic literature.

There is no demi-god in Jesus adherence. You don't even know what religious beliefs you are arguing against, contextually. The 'father', /G-d, manifested via Mary as an human incarnation, //in Israel.

 

[COGTHW]

There is no demi-god in Jesus adherence. You don't even know what religious beliefs you are arguing against, contextually. The 'father', /G-d, manifested via Mary as an human incarnation, //in Israel.

Sir, you are your own man correctly. This Ben guy has already denied the Holy Ghost which is blasphemy. He can deny Jesus all day long but the Holy Ghost inside Jesus is what Ben is denying on top of that Jesus also. The scriptures clearly state. Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:' The Godhead was in Jesus which Ben said its not which is blasphemy against God.

 

[Ron Hackel]

Ben
You have assumed wrongly about my view of the Jews. No one is going to be lost. Not all of course will take part in the 1000 year rest. This planet is going to explode in the near future as a result of mankind breaking the covenant.

2 PETER 3 : 10 "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire"
HEBREWS 12 : 27 "The words 'once more' indicate the removing of what can be shaken-that is, created things-so that what cannot be shaken may remain."

Mankind has broken the covenant because we were created to show the character of God-the law of love. We instead have embraced Satan's law of greed which has caused mankind to show anything but love for each other. The earth's core is heated to a large extent by the decay of the radio-active materials in its core. The flood was caused by the overheating of the fountains of the deep(our present day oceans). The outside electron in a radio-active material is a weak bond and when an outside energy source is introduced it causes the outside electron to be released. It is exactly like our nuclear plants. The cause of the outside energy that will cause this is not specified in the Bible, but it says the end comes because we have broken the covenant. I think a likely guess might be a nuclear war in the near future. The flood was caused when the fountains of the deep turned to steam at 212 degrees. Since they are now on the surface the runaway meltdown in the core will now go to thousands of degrees until the solids melt and turn to steam. 2 PETER 3:12 "the elements will melt in the heat".

As Paul stated everything that was created will be no more because of the intensity of the explosion. Paul does state that something not of this creation will remain though. If you read Scripture you'll see that God is coming to earth in the heavenly city New Jerusalem. This is the reason that Jesus came and died on the cross. He came to show the depth of God's love for his children. We have no need to fear him. He would even allow us to kill him with no retribution if we were able.

Why?

ZECHARIAH 2 : 5 "And I myself will be a wall of fire around it."

The city is 1400 miles on a side and as high. Since Satan has convinced the world of a punishing god and usually a picture with fire how many people do you think are going to run to the fire instead of away from it? scripture tells us what those who have believed Satan instead of God's word that he is unconditional love do.

ISAIAH 2 : 19 "Men will flee to caves in the rocks and to holes in the ground from DREAD of the Lord and the splendor of his majesty (his appearance), when he rises to shake the earth."

PSALM 53 : 4&5 "Will evildoers never learn.............There they were, overwhelmed with dread, where THERE WAS NOTHING TO DREAD."

As Jesus said: JOHN 12 : 48 "There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at THE LAST DAY."

Jesus was unconditional love. The disciples used the word agape in describing Jesus-unconditional love. If you reject that God, is nonpunishing God, you will condemn yourself to die the second time on this planet when it explodes. Since God is proving Lucifer's better way of ruling (the law of greed) to untenable he cannot interfere until this planet blows and shows the foolishness of his better plan.

God tried to show his love by telling mankind that they could rest their land every seventh year and they would have an abundance. Unfortunately we never trusted God enough to try it.

ISAIAH 46 : 11 "What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned, that will I do."

Since God said to rest your land every seventh and it has never been done it must be done when it explodes and left idle for a 1000 years. That is why we must be taken to heaven for a thousand years before God can create a new heaven (not third heaven) and earth. That is why it says Satan is chained in the abyss (Rev20:1&2) for a thousand years. The word abyss is taken from the Greek word abusso which is the same word from Genesis describing the solar system before creation started-null and void. Satan's rule has completely destroyed what God had created.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Ben
You have assumed wrongly about my view of the Jews. No one is going to be lost. Not all of course will take part in the 1000 year rest. This planet is going to explode in the near future as a result of mankind breaking the covenant.

2 PETER 3 : 10 "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire"
HEBREWS 12 : 27 "The words 'once more' indicate the removing of what can be shaken-that is, created things-so that what cannot be shaken may remain."

The planet will never explode as long as there is a Minyan of 10 righteous adult Jews on earth. That's what Abraham came down to in his struggle to strike a bargain with HaShem as the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was concerned. The bargain started with 50 righteous in Sodom and all the way down to 10. Hence the Minyan of 10 adult Jews. (Genesis 18:26-32) So, it became known that a minimum of 10 adult Jews on earth would prevent a universal catastrophe of the size of the Flood. An explosion of the planet would classify as a universal catastrophe. So, don't worry, it won't happen. There are two many Jews on earth. Universal salvation is guaranteed. Hence Jesus said in John 4:22. "Salvation comes from the Jews." From the Jews, he said, not from one among the Jews.

 

[Ben Avraham]

There is no demi-god in Jesus adherence. You don't even know what religious beliefs you are arguing against, contextually. The 'father', /G-d, manifested via Mary as an human incarnation, //in Israel.

As I can see, you did not read Mat. 1:18 as I quoted. That's the perfect description of the Greek doctrine of the demigod aka the son of a god with an earthly woman. If you don't agree with Mat. 1:18, it is because you believe that Joseph was the biological father of Jesus. So, he could not be the son of God. If you agree with Mat. 1:18 your position is that Jesus was a Greek demigod and not a Jew. So, you have got to choose because you can't bake your cake and eat it too.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Your fictional version of the Scripture doesn't interest me.

Rather the opposite is true. You prefer a fictional version of the Scripture than a true one.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Hi Folks..

Ben Avraham; Ah my friend if you can keep an open mind, then re read my post above - you will find I have actually already answered all your questions just in the paragraph you quoted...The clue is where He says Our Father that He is NOW teaching us of HAD NEVER BEEN ENCOUNTERED BEFORE - not even by the "Angels" above" He said.. Let it sink in deep - see the implications..??..

Ah Pete, my equal friend. If you free yourself from the chains of Christian preconceived notions and read the gospel of Jesus aka the Tanach you will find the Truth, I guarantee you.

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks...

lol....John 4 22 ??.....keep it in CONTEXT and see yet again He will DENY the Hebrew god - He yet again is speaking of a NEW TRUTH THAT NONE YET KNOW - here it is represented as a water from a well - the OLD truth of Jacob and THAT god versus His NEW TRUTH....He tells them clearly if I remember -keep taking the OLD water old truth and you will ALWAYS go thirsty..?...But try my NEW water and it satisfies fully..??....NOT THE SAME TRUTHS !! Do try to let it sink in - deep...

He tells the woman clearly just as He tells them all - SHE DOES NOT KNOW THE FATHER but she does immediately realise Christ IS Divine and so she is naturally confused.. She asks him clearly WHO IS CORRECT - my ancestors worship this mountain - or the jews worship in Jerusalem - WHICH ONE is correct she says..?..And LOOK at HIS ANSWER !!

He tells her they are ALL confused and that now HE is here with this NEW truth they will not be worshipping either at a mountain OR in Jerusalem He said and repeats clearly again that they dont even know the Father at all - not the mountain because it is not ancestoral truth He delivers - and not Jerusalem because it is not JEWISH truth either....Let it sink in....He said it clearly...NOT an ancestoral religious truth at all - but an entirely new and purely SPIRITUAL TRUTH - the LIVING truth of the Divine Self that is found WITHIN and not from the dead words of dead men !!! The woman says she knows the Christ is coming to set all matters straight for them - and see Him declare openly - He IS the Christ after all and DOES know such things - HIS truth is NOT their OLD truth at all - wrong "god" entirely - His truth, NEVER before encountered

 

[metis]

...read the gospel of Jesus aka the Tanach...

Jesus is no where mentioned in the Tanakh.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

You could add that Jesus was a drunkard like the Pharisees did.

I would if you ever see him drunk in any scene, but you don't. I DO see him commit the other sins, though.

 

[Desert Snake]

Rather the opposite is true. You prefer a fictional version of the Scripture than a true one.

'Tanakh' adherence in Jesus adherence, is different from Judaism, methodology. You aren't being clear on what you're stating is the 'correct' Scripture, anyway.

 

[Desert Snake]

As I can see, you did not read Mat. 1:18 as I quoted. That's the perfect description of the Greek doctrine of the demigod aka the son of a god with an earthly woman. If you don't agree with Mat. 1:18, it is because you believe that Joseph was the biological father of Jesus. So, he could not be the son of God. If you agree with Mat. 1:18 your position is that Jesus was a Greek demigod and not a Jew. So, you have got to choose because you can't bake your cake and eat it too.

Actually, I don't think that it necessarily even follows that Jesus cannot be divine, /with a human father. However, I do think a/the human incarnation did not need a human father. This also doesn't make Jesus a ''demi-god'', however, because the human aspect is not what we consider the Divinity of Jesus. We do not worship a Rabbi fisherman so forth, technically; rather, the Jesus in Spirit, who pre=exists Adam, and is 'one' with the father, in other words, is God.

 

[Kemosloby]

I would if you ever see him drunk in any scene, but you don't. I DO see him commit the other sins, though.

Jesus doesn't deny he drank a lot. The Pharisees weren't flat out liars, just hypocrites, they wouldn't believe Jesus, and their excuse was, they saw him doing those "bad" things. But Jesus replied, John the Baptist never touched alcohol once in his life, ate locusts and honey, and the Pharisees wouldn't believe him either. Matt 11:18

 

[Desert Snake]

Hi Folks...

lol....John 4 22 ??.....keep it in CONTEXT and see yet again He will DENY the Hebrew god - He yet again is speaking of a NEW TRUTH THAT NONE YET KNOW - here it is represented as a water from a well - the OLD truth of Jacob and THAT god versus His NEW TRUTH....He tells them clearly if I remember -keep taking the OLD water old truth and you will ALWAYS go thirsty..?...But try my NEW water and it satisfies fully..??....NOT THE SAME TRUTHS !! Do try to let it sink in - deep...

He tells the woman clearly just as He tells them all - SHE DOES NOT KNOW THE FATHER but she does immediately realise Christ IS Divine and so she is naturally confused.. She asks him clearly WHO IS CORRECT - my ancestors worship this mountain - or the jews worship in Jerusalem - WHICH ONE is correct she says..?..And LOOK at HIS ANSWER !!

He tells her they are ALL confused and that now HE is here with this NEW truth they will not be worshipping either at a mountain OR in Jerusalem He said and repeats clearly again that they dont even know the Father at all - not the mountain because it is not ancestoral truth He delivers - and not Jerusalem because it is not JEWISH truth either....Let it sink in....He said it clearly...NOT an ancestoral religious truth at all - but an entirely new and purely SPIRITUAL TRUTH - the LIVING truth of the Divine Self that is found WITHIN and not from the dead words of dead men !!! The woman says she knows the Christ is coming to set all matters straight for them - and see Him declare openly - He IS the Christ after all and DOES know such things - HIS truth is NOT their OLD truth at all - wrong "god" entirely - His truth, NEVER before encountered

Now, these verses, do you have evidence that Jesus was not stating thusly, //that they did not know the father,, so forth, specifically, to those He was addressing, and those He mentioned? These statements do not specify which false 'deity, was being worshipped; we actually don't know who, or what, the people were worshipping as a false deity. You assume that it is the Biblical deity, ...why? They could have been worshipping any number of false deities.
Anyways, any verses?