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One God or many gods

Bharat Jhunjhunwala

TruthPrevails
Oh Stop === this is existential fallacyland --- as opposed to the desired fantasyland my friend. Once you are able to define that the existentialist fallacy .. then come talk to me about infinite reality .. your mission .. should you choose to accept it .. has the following Hint .. Row Row Row the boat .. gently down the stream ...........

Hint 2: From the Classic Tune "Barbi Girl" in a Barbi World .. When life is Plastic .. its fantastic .. you can touch my hair . .. and the rest is X rated .. to hot for PF.

Then my young apprentice .. once finished Mission one .. we can talk about my 4th year quantum chemistry class .. where we did them wonky wave equation calculations .. Particle in a box .. Heisenberg uncertainty .. and the wonky metaphysical state of reality.

"Depends how far one can perceive" :) humor --- to infinity and beyond !!!!!!!!!
It seems you cannot understand what I said. I'll be happy to respond to questions.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
It seems you cannot understand what I said. I'll be happy to respond to questions.

I understood your existential fallacy perfectly :) --- your mission .. for the second time now -- seems your understanding is at issue not mine - is to explain to us what the existential fallacy is. That is your question friend .. do you not understand the question ? I even gave you a hint as to the answer .. "row row row the boat" ? are you not familiar with the song ? the path .. the way .. the truth and the light.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
What are angels then?

Divinities with less power than the capital G - Gods :) -- probably one of the worst mistranslated -- no .. take that back "The Worst" -- Hands down most mistranslated - edited - omitted parts of the Bible are those relating to "other divinities"

For example --- an Angel .. in the Jewish Bible ... would be a messenger .. related to "The Spirit of the Lord" personified.. a diety of limited power .. with respect to interaction with humans. This is the definition prior to Judaism adopting Ahura Mazda as their God .. the powers of Angels then change into more God-like Creatures .. but never mind that .. talking about Angels in the Old Testament days .. when the Israelites were roaming around.

Angels to these peopole would be lesser sprites ,, who act along side of the Gods from time to time.
 

Bharat Jhunjhunwala

TruthPrevails
Divinities with less power than the capital G - Gods :) -- probably one of the worst mistranslated -- no .. take that back "The Worst" -- Hands down most mistranslated - edited - omitted parts of the Bible are those relating to "other divinities"

For example --- an Angel .. in the Jewish Bible ... would be a messenger .. related to "The Spirit of the Lord" personified.. a diety of limited power .. with respect to interaction with humans. This is the definition prior to Judaism adopting Ahura Mazda as their God .. the powers of Angels then change into more God-like Creatures .. but never mind that .. talking about Angels in the Old Testament days .. when the Israelites were roaming around.

Angels to these peopole would be lesser sprites ,, who act along side of the Gods from time to time.
What are the .lesser spirits. made of? Wherefrom they get their power? The question relates to whether these may be the lesser gods.
 

Bharat Jhunjhunwala

TruthPrevails
Divinities with less power than the capital G - Gods :) -- probably one of the worst mistranslated -- no .. take that back "The Worst" -- Hands down most mistranslated - edited - omitted parts of the Bible are those relating to "other divinities"

For example --- an Angel .. in the Jewish Bible ... would be a messenger .. related to "The Spirit of the Lord" personified.. a diety of limited power .. with respect to interaction with humans. This is the definition prior to Judaism adopting Ahura Mazda as their God .. the powers of Angels then change into more God-like Creatures .. but never mind that .. talking about Angels in the Old Testament days .. when the Israelites were roaming around.

Angels to these peopole would be lesser sprites ,, who act along side of the Gods from time to time.
What are the .lesser spirits. made of? Wherefrom they get their power? The question relates to whether these may be the lesser gods.
 

Bharat Jhunjhunwala

TruthPrevails
I have no idea since i do not talk to angels. If you ask me about the land spirits, Landvættir, then I can tell you for I have spoken to them. Angels have no meaning to me. Maybe they are land spirits using a different word but I don't know.
I like your reply. But that is the problem because the many gods are like the angels.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
What are the .lesser spirits. made of? Wherefrom they get their power? The question relates to whether these may be the lesser gods.

no idea mate .. we are not told .. nor is the question of much relevance to anything but Trinity doctrine .. which has nothing to do with the Jewish Bible Perspective angels.

If you are thinking "trinity doctrine" .. which is made up man made (demiurge) nonsense .. similar to the made up multiple infinity existentialist fallacy --- but an interesting question never the less .. as what does the Trinitarian say Angels are made of ? or more technically .. are the angels "Homoousios" = of the same substance of God ?

This is a tough one for the trinitarian indeed .. as when Jesus was deemed by Emperor Constantine to be "Homoousios" -- of the same substance as God .. this is saying Jesus is God. To Greek Philosophy/Theology there are only two kinds of substances 1) that which God is made of .. 2) that which everything else is made of -- trees -earth - humans - Gold

In trying to explain angels .. the trinitarian has to wander into heretical gnostism .. speak in terms of an emanation from the Godhead .. or some similar idea with vague terms in futile effort to avoid the gnostic heresy.

The Big Trinitarian fail .. is the assumption that having some of the God Substance .. makes anything that has some of the God substance equal to God .. as opposed to Some have more power than others .. or you could have a "Supreme God" more of a primordial nature .. who has no interaction with humans .. and these Lower God entities who hafve great powers .. but not unlimited .. and each God with different powers .. varied in nature .. think if the All Spark in the Transformer movies .. The Transformer has nowhere near the power of the All spark .. but has just a little shard and from this it gains power. -- this would be more in line with the Jewish Bible perspective on the Gods .. the angels are on a rung lower .. actually beneath humans in the pyramid of Deut 32:43 (need a translation of an old bible as the newer ones strip out of the anything newer than the Masoretic Text 1000 AD.

"O heavens, rejoice with Him Bow to Him, all sons of the divine
O nations, rejoice with His people and let all angels of the divine strengthen themselves in Him.
For He’ll avenge the blood of His sons, be vengeful, and wreak vengeance and recompense justice on his foes
And the Lord will Cleanse His people’s land"



bit of an interesting passage given the Ethnic Cleansing going on in Gaza but I digress. So here we have the various actors celebrating with God in Heaven .. the heavenly beings (perhaps this a reference to the high gods .. or the heavenly bodies .. which is the same thing) Highest in the pecking order in heaven ... under which you have the "Sons of the divine" -- the famous "Sons of God" we hear so much about.. coming down from the sky and taking earth women as wives .. .. in any case .. these are the lesser Gods .. but still powerfull .. these include Gods such as Ha Satan and YHWH .. a God by name Jealous .. and at least 70 other sons of El and some from Enki as well .. who all battle over chief God over the earth .. Marduk eventually wining the crown .. defeating YHWH.

Underneath the heavens we have the nations of the eath .. obviously on earth and not in the heavens .. also rejoincing .. and only underneath that comes the angels.

For a giggle go check out this passage in a modern bible .. see how all the other divinities and meaning have been wiped clearn out of the passage .. in sad pious fraud .. attempting to hide the polygamous past.
 

Bharat Jhunjhunwala

TruthPrevails
no idea mate .. we are not told .. nor is the question of much relevance to anything but Trinity doctrine .. which has nothing to do with the Jewish Bible Perspective angels.

If you are thinking "trinity doctrine" .. which is made up man made (demiurge) nonsense .. similar to the made up multiple infinity existentialist fallacy --- but an interesting question never the less .. as what does the Trinitarian say Angels are made of ? or more technically .. are the angels "Homoousios" = of the same substance of God ?

This is a tough one for the trinitarian indeed .. as when Jesus was deemed by Emperor Constantine to be "Homoousios" -- of the same substance as God .. this is saying Jesus is God. To Greek Philosophy/Theology there are only two kinds of substances 1) that which God is made of .. 2) that which everything else is made of -- trees -earth - humans - Gold

In trying to explain angels .. the trinitarian has to wander into heretical gnostism .. speak in terms of an emanation from the Godhead .. or some similar idea with vague terms in futile effort to avoid the gnostic heresy.

The Big Trinitarian fail .. is the assumption that having some of the God Substance .. makes anything that has some of the God substance equal to God .. as opposed to Some have more power than others .. or you could have a "Supreme God" more of a primordial nature .. who has no interaction with humans .. and these Lower God entities who hafve great powers .. but not unlimited .. and each God with different powers .. varied in nature .. think if the All Spark in the Transformer movies .. The Transformer has nowhere near the power of the All spark .. but has just a little shard and from this it gains power. -- this would be more in line with the Jewish Bible perspective on the Gods .. the angels are on a rung lower .. actually beneath humans in the pyramid of Deut 32:43 (need a translation of an old bible as the newer ones strip out of the anything newer than the Masoretic Text 1000 AD.

"O heavens, rejoice with Him Bow to Him, all sons of the divine
O nations, rejoice with His people and let all angels of the divine strengthen themselves in Him.
For He’ll avenge the blood of His sons, be vengeful, and wreak vengeance and recompense justice on his foes
And the Lord will Cleanse His people’s land"



bit of an interesting passage given the Ethnic Cleansing going on in Gaza but I digress. So here we have the various actors celebrating with God in Heaven .. the heavenly beings (perhaps this a reference to the high gods .. or the heavenly bodies .. which is the same thing) Highest in the pecking order in heaven ... under which you have the "Sons of the divine" -- the famous "Sons of God" we hear so much about.. coming down from the sky and taking earth women as wives .. .. in any case .. these are the lesser Gods .. but still powerfull .. these include Gods such as Ha Satan and YHWH .. a God by name Jealous .. and at least 70 other sons of El and some from Enki as well .. who all battle over chief God over the earth .. Marduk eventually wining the crown .. defeating YHWH.

Underneath the heavens we have the nations of the eath .. obviously on earth and not in the heavens .. also rejoincing .. and only underneath that comes the angels.

For a giggle go check out this passage in a modern bible .. see how all the other divinities and meaning have been wiped clearn out of the passage .. in sad pious fraud .. attempting to hide the polygamous past.
Sargonski. Thanks much. Yours is a rare and welcome reply. Especially for drawing my attention to Duet.
The hindu system holds there are two things... Matter and Spirit. The spirit is like an infinite psychic cloud. At Infinity the religions call It God or Brahman. At sub.infinity it is called gods or angels. At human level connected with Infinity it is called grace and the human is called saint, son, prophet, etc.
Would that make sense to you?
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Sargonski. Thanks much. Yours is a rare and welcome reply. Especially for drawing my attention to Duet.
The hindu system holds there are two things... Matter and Spirit. The spirit is like an infinite psychic cloud. At Infinity the religions call It God or Brahman. At sub.infinity it is called gods or angels. At human level connected with Infinity it is called grace and the human is called saint, son, prophet, etc.
Would that make sense to you?

Well isn't that something ..... Platonic Philosophy meets Hinduism - and nor am I surprised this idea coming somewhere out of the Indus valley. in the distant past. .. the second idea is how the spirit is defined "infinite psychic cloud" and here we see what I told you before .. multiple infinite psychic clouds has no meaning different than one infinite psychic cloud .. as both are infinitely connected to everything .. two terms to describe the same thing .. ahhh haaaa .. now you listen to the Ma Hatma ... for he is very wise :) LOLOLOL.. Had a friend used to say that all the time .. "Listen to the Mahatma .. for he is very wise"

OK -- this is very similar to my idea of a soul .. when we die .. the soul goes to the psychic cloud .. and from there decides on the next vacation .. from a million trillion worlds...

what I don't understand is how "sub infinity" would define a God .. give it powers. .. nor how connectivity at the human level is grace .. saint prophet.. we are all presumably connected .. what makes a prophet ?

This last part about Gods and humans was fuzzy :)
 

RamaRaksha

*banned*
How could uneducated people write the harmonious 66 Bible books chock full of cross-reference verses and passages.
This is why Jesus often prefaced his statements with the words, " It is written....." ( already written down in the OT)

The word 'afterlife' means being more alive after death then before death.
The Bible does Not teach 'afterlife' but teaches: resurrection.
A heavenly resurrection for some, the ones who have a first or earlier resurrection - Revelation 20:6; 5:9-10
For the majority of mankind a physical resurrection being restored/resurrected back to live life on Earth. - Acts 24:15
A resurrection on Resurrection Day meaning: Jesus' coming Millennium-Long Day governing over Earth for a thousand years. - John 6:40,44
Humble meek people to inherit the Earth. Earth as promised at Matthew 5:5 from Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26
Either he is coming any day now (they have been promising this for how many centuries now? Even uneducated goat herders understand that the boy crying wolf a few many times is just having fun with them but this greed for the easy lazy life seems to brainwash even the best of minds), a quick wave of his magic wand and we are all sitting pretty
Or
We can run away from all this pain & suffering and enjoy the good life in Heaven
No one mentions any work being done in Heaven, no one even asks!
An idle, lazy, useless, uncaring, selfish, cowardly freeloader existence for eternity!
God's Grand Plan!
Amazing to see such fantasies being bandied about without being challenged
 

RamaRaksha

*banned*
Sargonski. Thanks much. Yours is a rare and welcome reply. Especially for drawing my attention to Duet.
The hindu system holds there are two things... Matter and Spirit. The spirit is like an infinite psychic cloud. At Infinity the religions call It God or Brahman. At sub.infinity it is called gods or angels. At human level connected with Infinity it is called grace and the human is called saint, son, prophet, etc.
Would that make sense to you?
God is not Brahman
Brahman is EVERYTHING - you, me, the earth, the air, the sun, the solar system, the universe, the empty space - EVERYTHING is Brahman
In fact scientists are not looking for the "God Particle" but the "Brahman Particle"
Gods come out of Brahman - Brahma, Vishnu, Siva - they are Gods - one step below Brahman
 

Bharat Jhunjhunwala

TruthPrevails
God is not Brahman
Brahman is EVERYTHING - you, me, the earth, the air, the sun, the solar system, the universe, the empty space - EVERYTHING is Brahman
In fact scientists are not looking for the "God Particle" but the "Brahman Particle"
Gods come out of Brahman - Brahma, Vishnu, Siva - they are Gods - one step below Brahman
Brahman was created from viraj. Brahman is father of viraj.
 

Bharat Jhunjhunwala

TruthPrevails
how "sub infinity" would define a God ..
You take infinity out of infinity and infinity remains. So there can be many Infinity. There is not but many God with caps.
Sub infinity is part of infinity that is not itself infinity. Like a bucket from the ocean. These are gods with lower g.
how connectivity at the human level is grace
When a living being connects with infinity it can intake only part of infinity hence that is grace, prophet, avatars, saint, etc.
 
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