"Back"? So far, you never left square one.
To save us both time:
- I know several forms of the argument for the existence of God from first cause (though I don't know which one you're planning to use).
- I reject all of them.
-
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Only atheists
- Thread starter interminable
- Start date
To save us both time:
- I know several forms of the argument for the existence of God from first cause (though I don't know which one you're planning to use).
- I reject all of them.
Causality is not at all a rational argument for the existence of a creator God.
It is not my fault that you insist on making claims that are untrue.
Luciferi Baphomet
Lucifer, is my Liberator
It is better to be more alert and aware of what is going on than asking god to protect you. Why? Because you won't be that aware.
Luciferi Baphomet
Lucifer, is my Liberator
Only you can help yourself in a scary situation.
You make that sound like a bad thing.
Interesting question. I've only been in life-threatening situations a handful of times (perhaps 3 that I can remember distinctly) and in none of those occasions did I pray, or even think about God. Rather, I was trying to stay calm and work out the best course of action to survive.
However, I wouldn't go so far as to say I've never seen this happen...
I think atheists, much like Christians or Muslims, can have varying levels of certainty or comfort with their own opinions on what is real. It's possible for a self-described atheist to revert to cultural comforts I would think. But the vast majority of atheists...or perhaps 'true' atheists...wouldn't do this, since they'd see it as pointless.
The parallel for me is that I know a devout Christian who ended up resorting to some traditional medicines and rituals from his parent's homeland when his son had terminal brain tumours. It was sheer desperation, and occurred due to the lack of impact of praying (a lot of praying), but I guess there is a small kernel of uncertainty in his belief, for all that his actions were understandable.
Anyways...that's about as clear an answer as I can give I think.
interminable
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meghanwaterlillies
Well-Known Member
Independence first. Diversity was an imperialistic ship,...I almost sunk on.
Part of that was in a movie.
Causality as evidence for a Creator God, you mean?
The version I know of that claim goes along the lines of "everything has a cause, so existence itself can be no exception, therefore there is a first cause, which is itself uncaused, which should therefore be divine in nature".
Ironically, such a claim is self-contradictory and only appears logical if you take for granted that there is such a thing as a creator God. Far from being a logical argument, it is a circle of premises that attempt to evidence each other without ever reaching solid ground.
What is the contradiction? The symultaneous assumptions that everything has a cause and that there is an uncaused causer, a first cause.
That may sound conforting for those who have the natural tendency to be troubled by the question of a first cause, or who have been driven into conforming to that expectation by being scared into it by a (usually) Christian or Muslim education.
But it makes no logical sense at all. It relies on a supposedly reliable rule and on the necessity of the existence of a single exception to it and on the assumption that said exception must be sentient and all-powerful.
That is why it is not a good argument for believers, and essentially worthless for attempts at converting non-believers.
But that is ok. No one should feel troubled by disbelief. Not believers and certainly not disbelievers.
As a side note, you may want to learn about tangential concepts such as apatheism. It may be useful to help you realize that the dichotomy of "belief vs unbelief" is actually a very rough representation of what is ultimately a very minor, inconsequential matter.
There are many importante subjects in life. Whether there is a God is most definitely not one of those.
Which and how many deities (if any) one believes in is a strictly personal matter and it is not really very important to be "right" about that even by that perspective; it really is ok to keep changing one's opinion on the matter all the time, even randomly or by a whim, if one wants to.
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psychoslice
Veteran Member
If there was such thing as Allah, then maybe.
interminable
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Two years later maybe I will understand what u wrote
Please my English isn't good enough
Sorry
Oh I read your other posts . I can't understand at all
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interminable
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Sir
When we say everything needs a cause we mean those which are dependable and are in need.
It's very strange why some western philosophers had this bug in their minds about causality!!!
Contemplate about this verse
الفرقان
الَّذِي لَهُ مُلْكُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَلَمْ يَتَّخِذْ وَلَدًا وَلَمْ يَكُن لَّهُ شَرِيكٌ فِي الْمُلْكِ وَخَلَقَ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ فَقَدَّرَهُ تَقْدِيرًا
He to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and who has not taken a son and has not had a partner in dominion and has created each thing and determined it with [precise] determination. (2)
God says has created each thing
Does it mean he created himself too???
When he wasn't created where was he to create himself????
Besides we don't use causality alone to prove the existence of a necessary existent
Please notice we use infinite regress and causality and some other logical arguments to prove that there must be an independent existent that isn't created . He himself is real existent we are shadows.
Am I clear????
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interminable
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Hey
As I said before here a supreme power is meant . Simply because there are thousands of religions and many gods
psychoslice
Veteran Member
So what do you personally call that supreme power ?.
interminable
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In Persian خدا
In Arabic Allah
psychoslice
Veteran Member
yes i thought so, so why is this Source Allah, when this Source cannot really have a name at all, how can you name something that you cannot know, not counting hearsay ?.
interminable
منتظر
Who has told that we can't know him?
This is just the purpose of creation .to know god.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
But you don't know him do you ?.......you only know what you have been told about him from your Prophet.
interminable
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So your problem is just his name huh?
Knowing here in dire situation is just a deep sense not logical one that is in minds