Only atheists

[interminable]

Except you haven't proven infinite regress is impossible; you've just shown that you've dismissed it because it's an inconvenient unmoving stumbling block to your claims. By your logic since I've considered & rejected monotheism that must mean polytheism is true.

Read #164 and reject my claim

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

We imagine all things and discuss generally
We consider all possibilities and by rejecting some of them we prove the others
For example when we proved infinite regress is impossible we have no choice but to prove an existent that is out of chains of possible existents

You didn't answer my question.

Your argument said "everything that is created needs a cause." How do you show that a specific thing was created?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Everything that is created needs a cause

And are you arguing that the universe was created?

 

[Iti oj]

It's simple but step by step



Everything that is created needs a cause

Who says the universe was created. The big bang was transformative not creative. The singularity was.

 

[interminable]

You didn't answer my question.

Your argument said "everything that is created needs a cause." How do you show that a specific thing was created?

Do I need to show??
My logical arguments don't need to show how things are created

Besides if something sometimes wasn't and then was it shows it's created

 

[interminable]

And are you arguing that the universe was created?

As I told before we discuss generally

But yes we say univers wasn't and then is created

 

[Iti oj]

Who says the universe was created. The big bang was transformative not creative. The singularity was.

Do I need to show??
My logical arguments don't need to show how things are created

Besides if something sometimes wasn't and then was it shows it's created

you didn't respond to my quotes post or make your case or deal with what is actually said.

 

[Koldo]

It's simple but step by step

Proceed.

Everything that is created needs a cause

I can accept that proposition. I reject the notion the universe was created though.

 

[Koldo]

Do I need to show??
My logical arguments don't need to show how things are created

Besides if something sometimes wasn't and then was it shows it's created

That's incorrect. Logically speaking, something might begin to exist with no cause. This is different from being created, which requires a cause.

 

[interminable]

Who says the universe was created. The big bang was transformative not creative. The singularity was.

And tell me about before the big bang what was happened exactly???

Besides matter needs to its part which means there is a time when it didn't exist.

 

[interminable]

you didn't respond to my quotes post or make your case or deal with what is actually said.

Which post exactly?

 

[interminable]

That's incorrect. Logically speaking, something might begin to exist with no cause. This is different from being created, which requires a cause.

Both are the same

Something that''' might begin to exist ''' means it is from nothing???

If u consider something that has a beginning it is created because it means there was a time when it wasn't at all. So it can't be created from nothing because non existent doesn't exist

 

[Iti oj]

And tell me about before the big bang what was happened exactly???

Besides matter needs to its part which means there is a time when it didn't exist.

No idea really. The terms like before are problematic when having this conversation because time it's self started with the big bang.

What are you trying to say for this second part. ? Matter/energy has always existed in some form that's what the singularity was. The big bang transform it into what is.

 

[Koldo]

Both are the same

Like I have said, they are not.

Something that''' might begin to exist ''' means it is from nothing???

That's certainly a possibility.

If u consider something that has a beginning it is created because it means there was a time when it wasn't at all.

Putting aside my clear disagreement on whether it had to be created to come into existence, something might have a beginning and yet there be no time when it didn't exist at all. To exemplify, if time didn't exist before the big bang, then the universe has a beginning and yet there there is no point in time where the universe didn't exist.

So it can't be created from nothing because non existent doesn't exist

I am not sure on the nature of your contention. Do you mean you consider it ( logically ) impossible for something to simply pop into existence ? Why ? It is certainly possible to imagine such a world.

 

[Kuzcotopia]

So u mean atheists don't fear from death at all ?

I think fear of death has nothing to do with religion because children even animals have this sense .they don't wanna die. can u say animals or children are affected by religion?

And more importantly I'm a religious man but I don't fear from death because I didn't lose anything

1. I said "most".

2. Not wanting to die and being afraid of death are two different things.

3. You say you don't lose anything. Neither do I. I had no consciousness prior to my birth, and I won't have any after I die. But it's better than a zero sum game for me because I'm excited about now, my memories of the past are enlightening, and my curiosity about the future is still interesting.

Describe your future to me. . . The one where you don't lose anything.

 

[interminable]

No idea really. The terms like before are problematic when having this conversation because time it's self started with the big bang.

What are you trying to say for this second part. ? Matter/energy has always existed in some form that's what the singularity was. The big bang transform it into what is.

If I want to be honest I've no idea

But I know something
That empty space is free from matter and at the same time u can't say empty space is non existent because non existent doesn't exist So even in empty space there is something but clearly isn't from matter or energy

 

[interminable]

Like I have said, they are not.



That's certainly a possibility.



Putting aside my clear disagreement on whether it had to be created to come into existence, something might have a beginning and yet there be no time when it didn't exist at all. To exemplify, if time didn't exist before the big bang, then the universe has a beginning and yet there there is no point in time where the universe didn't exist.



I am not sure on the nature of your contention. Do you mean you consider it ( logically ) impossible for something to simply pop into existence ? Why ? It is certainly possible to imagine such a world.

Yes it's impossible because nothing is non existent
Even u consider it something then say it's possible that something jumps to existence

 

[interminable]

1. I said "most".

2. Not wanting to die and being afraid of death are two different things.

3. You say you don't lose anything. Neither do I. I had no consciousness prior to my birth, and I won't have any after I die. But it's better than a zero sum game for me because I'm excited about now, my memories of the past are enlightening, and my curiosity about the future is still interesting.

Describe your future to me. . . The one where you don't lose anything.

Since I believe in hereafter I said that
Because as u know our ages comparing to the age of universe is maybe one second or less so comparing to eternal what would be?

 

[Iti oj]

If I want to be honest I've no idea

But I know something
That empty space is free from matter and at the same time u can't say empty space is non existent because non existent doesn't exist So even in empty space there is something but clearly isn't from matter or energy

Empty space isn't really empty

 

[interminable]

Empty space isn't really empty

What are its components?