Only Unhappy People Need Religion?

[Nakosis]

Of course Karl Marx said that. Everyone knows that, and most atheists worship him because of this statement. It was evident in your OP that your sentiments source was this statement.

You cannot just give some view like a fish out of water and expect others to give another side. First you should substantiate that view.

Do you really believe that the majority of this earth have bade up their religious beliefs just as a center of happiness? Seriously?

Please think about it.

I think it was possible that monotheism was used by those in power to placate the masses in the stead of material wealth.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That's why I'm asking others, what is true for them. Personally, I've heard from many, in times of need, in times of stress, they turned to God and their burden was lifted. What then if there was no need, no stress? Is it reasonable to think the need to turn to God would be absent as well?

I understand there is a cultural aspect to religion but then is it more a sense of obligation than need? IOW, "I am happy but my faith is a duty to my tribe/culture".

Wow, it is really wide. In a sense you are asking questions within in part existential psychology and philosophy. And in more broader terms psychology as such and in part sociology.
Now I know it is there, but I am unable to answer, because I know, I don't know enough.

Regards
Mikkel

 

[Nakosis]

I would say yes.
I would also say, that's all people, because no one is truly happy lacking spirituality.
Yes, people drown their sorrows, pain, emptiness... in all sorts of things, but all they are really doing is going from one thing to another, trying to find happiness.

Even the most wealthy person is not truly happy, but why not live the remaining of one's miserable live fat.


Everyone has a religion. Some just take a different form to the one recognized as official.


To me, it's like this... A person may be lacking food, but they get by on what they have, or what they can get, especially if they can do no better.
If someone offers to give them three well prepared, and appetizing meals a day, that would greatly reduce that person's burden, anxieties, and struggles.
That person will still get sick and die, but their changed circumstances for the better brings them satisfaction.

Jesus said, 'Happy are those conscious of their spiritual need. He also said', 'Happy are those hungering and thirsting for righteousness, since they will be filled'.

When one experiences the satisfaction of being spiritually full, it brings happiness, greater than any physical satisfaction.

What causes a celebrity with a lucrative career ahead of them, vacations in luxury, and many avenues for pleasure, to give that up for a dedicated service in religion?
Why would one who is an Atheist, turn to religion, and face mockery, ridicule, and even extreme hatred and persecution?

They find true happiness - the happiness they were searching for, which was eluding them.

The reality of this life is that the 'happy guy', will appear to be going through life 'without a care', but in just one moment, a snap of the fingers, his life is affected by something. No one escapes unhappiness.
How we choose to deal with is, is another story.
Some feel that's all there is to life, so they make up their mind to live with it - accept it.
Others question the apparent 'oneway dead-end path', and to their delight, find another path - a better one.

That's how I see it.

I think it is weird that I feel happy most of the time. Don't know why sometimes but feel content with life. Maybe I'm an aberration.

 

[firedragon]

I think it was possible that monotheism was used by those in power to placate the masses in the stead of material wealth.

What do you think about this statement?

"I THINK IT IS POSSIBLE THAT ATHEISM WAS USED BY THOSE IN POWER TO PLACATE THE MASSES IN THE STEAD OF MATERIAL WEALTH"?

Anyone can make rhetoric like this.

 

[Nakosis]

Wow, it is really wide. In a sense you are asking questions within in part existential psychology and philosophy. And in more broader terms psychology as such and in part sociology.
Now I know it is there, but I am unable to answer, because I know, I don't know enough.

Regards
Mikkel

You know for yourself, don't you? Are you happy?

 

[halbhh]

Or can you be happy without religion?

If not your happiness, then how is your religious belief benefiting you?

Surely for a time, decades(?), you can be 'happy' without a 'religion' (consistent structured practice?) of the one true God, it seems (from what I experienced).

In that time when I did not yet believe (or not intellectually at least in the conscious thought), I had a rich life with a lot of love, fun, friends, and adventures, and never enough time in the day for all the enjoyable things I wanted to do, and fell asleep satisfied over and over.

Actually....that was in the days when I was not yet a conscious believer, but had been doing as Jesus said in "Love your neighbor as yourself" -- so...that's a key part of what happened, why my life in those days became so very rich and fulfilling, where the last great things (so I thought) were added to my life, and it seemed hard to imagine it being better.

But....I guess it's fair to say that I had some of that richness as part of the outcome of my choice to do as Christ said to do. Yes, that's accurate.

Still, this abundant good quality of life at that point, enjoyable life, did not stop me from eventually seeking to gain what is even better. So, I looked for more from Him. Now I still have what I had before, but something so much more, also.

 

[Nakosis]

What do you think about this statement?

"I THINK IT IS POSSIBLE THAT ATHEISM WAS USED BY THOSE IN POWER TO PLACATE THE MASSES IN THE STEAD OF MATERIAL WEALTH"?

Anyone can make rhetoric like this.

You asked me how I felt. If however atheism is being used to placate the masses, doesn't seem to be working.

"You work hard all your life in a ghetto/slum, then when you die your corpse gets tossed in a grave so it don't stink up the place." Don't really see a lot of motivation in that narrative.

 

[Nakosis]

Not sure if this will appeal or answer your question ...

But here is an entire book on the subject - and it is free too

SECRETS OF SPIRITUAL HAPPINESS: Read the book online - Sharon Kumuda Janis

Enjoy your day!

So I will say, that I agree with her on this.
One of the main secrets of spiritual happiness is to make positive use of the immense power of your mind, your thoughts, and the way you view the world.

 

[Nakosis]

I have very little materalistic needs, and i always choose religious belief before materalistic needs

So that is part of the question. Has religion convinced you to "have very little material needs"? This is what I suspect religion has done for many.

 

[Nakosis]

I'm most happy when I know the truth.

Do you know it?

 

[Nakosis]

I don't believe that religion was ever meant to exist in the beginning. From the Bible's perspective, God created man in his image in order to take care of his creation.....meaning the earth and all its inhabitants. We were meant to be one people, with one God, and a very satisfying job to do. Had the humans not abused their free will, that is the life we would have lived.....forever.

Think back to the start that God gave humanity as it is stated in the Bible.....paradise was their home, kitted out with everything that they would need to start a wonderful life here. It was never supposed to end.....they were to fill the world with their children and extend the boundaries of their paradise home until the whole world looked like Eden. There would have been no dramas, no aging, no sickness....and no death.

There was no "religion" or a long list of rules to follow. There was no sin in the world and everyone would have learned to follow God's instructions as a matter of course....seeing the good results of always doing so.....it all came undone when the humans decided that following the promptings of a lying rebel would make their already perfect lives, better. But it would all ultimately lead them to ruin by assuming that doing things their own way was the best way.....has that proven to be true?

I don't think most people realize exactly what we lost back then, and why Jesus came to get it back for us.

I believe it will happen as Revelation 21:3-4 says....
"With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

Sounds like a happy ending to me....

Yes, happy ending.
Could you be happy without it?

 

[firedragon]

You asked me how I felt. If however atheism is being used to placate the masses, doesn't seem to be working.

"You work hard all your life in a ghetto/slum, then when you die your corpse gets tossed in a grave so it don't stink up the place." Don't really see a lot of motivation in that narrative.

Most of that is not relevant.

But why "doesnt seem to be working" is your answer? Is it your opinion without any evidence or study or do you have anything behind your statement at all?

Think about it bro.

 

[Spirit of Light]

So that is part of the question. Has religion convinced you to "have very little material needs"? This is what I suspect religion has done for many.

For me it come very natural, no forcing from any form of religious belief. I can see the different in how i am now compared to when i did live a life with a lot of materalistic things around me. Honestly i lived in a mess and was to lazy to clean up the way i should have done.

Today when i do my house cleaning i never use more than 15-20 minutes to clean all my appartment. Because now i have so few objects that the space that need cleaning is mostly empty anyway, an other aspect is that at home my mind is a lot calmer than when i go out in the streets or visiting friends.

And i only buy new things if the old one brakes

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You know for yourself, don't you? Are you happy?

No, I am not happy. I am content. And I am not religious in the standard sense.

 

[Nakosis]

For me it come very natural, no forcing from any form of religious belief. I can see the different in how i am now compared to when i did live a life with a lot of materalistic things around me. Honestly i lived in a mess and was to lazy to clean up the way i should have done.

Today when i do my house cleaning i never use more than 15-20 minutes to clean all my appartment. Because now i have so few objects that the space that need cleaning is mostly empty anyway, an other aspect is that at home my mind is a lot calmer than when i go out in the streets or visiting friends.

And i only buy new things if the old one brakes

Wish you could teach my kids.
My youngest turned 32 today. So he has his own money but the packages from Amazon seems to fill the porch most days.

He is an atheist. Perhaps he is compensating for something.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

If all of your material needs were met. Nice house, nice car, nice spouse, freedom to choose whatever you wanted to work on or to not work, could we get rid of religion? Or do you think people would still need religion?

It's not a matter of only material needs being met. All of my needs are met without religion simply because I was raised without it. Others look to religion for community. I have that elsewhere. Some need to be reassured that their minds won't be extinguished at death. I've long ago accepted that possibility and am comfortable with it.

Likewise with the things religious people say religion comforts. Some need a sense of being watched over. Others need to believe in cosmic justice, so they want somebody to reward the good and punish the bad. I have learned to understand that the world might not be that way, and that is fine.

I don't need to believe in the supernatural to see the universe as astonishing or to feel connected to it, or feel gratitude for life, or to experience mystery or awe.

I don't have any need for religious stories or advice on right and wrong to be believed by faith. I have better stories from science and history, and a better method for making ethical decisions, rational ethics, the system of compassionate reflection that can tell the scriptures that their slavery is immoral, for example.

So what would religion have to offer such a person? Where's the mystery that some of us feel fulfilled without it, and not just materially. What else does one need but leisure, good health, beauty, financial security, love, friends, and a sense of purpose and belonging?

Unhappy people turn to religion.

Yes, but even more so, people with little control over their lives - the very poor, uneducated, and vulnerable. When you are defenseless against your plight whether that be famine or dictators or bombs falling everywhere or sex slavery or whatever is degrading your life and preventing happiness, you turn to prayer for comfort. You pray for your children.

But people who feel like they have power over their lives and whose needs are met, who feel safe and empowered, are going to have a different view of such things. This is why you'll have an easier time converting people on Skid Row and Death Row than Restaurant Row.

I am grateful for my good fortune, but not to a god. People sometimes ask, "then whom to?" Well, I'm grateful for my parents and teachers, for those who came before and paved the way for the education and economic opportunity that made life better, and other good fortune a person born into mid-20th century America might enjoy, but basically, this gratitude is gratitude without an object.

I never think about Atheists in such a way; how come, Atheist do? Feels belittling too, like "I am better than you, I am not dependent on ...."

Did you feel that I was belittling you?

I do consider needing religion to be a disadvantage, but isn't that the case with needing anything?

You may find this offensive as well, but it is offered as a neutral analogy, not an insult. I used to be a smoker. Before that, I never needed or wanted a cigarette until I began experimenting with them, but afterward, I did. I might even say that smoking gave me comfort as it eased the withdrawing from nicotine. But is that really comfort? Compare it to the nonsmoker who has that comfort at all times, so much so that he doesn't even notice an issue there like the smoker does every twenty minutes.

What should I make of the smoker and the religious person who tells me that they get comfort from something that cannot comfort me because I have no discomfort there to begin with.

Religion, like cigarettes, creates the need for itself. If you grow up going to church for forty years or smoking for forty years, you'll have great difficulty pulling away. If you grow up with neither, well, neither has much to offer you.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Wish you could teach my kids.
My youngest turned 32 today. So he has his own money but the packages from Amazon seems to fill the porch most days.

He is an atheist. Perhaps he is compensating for something.

"Conscious thoughts the human trainer " Yaiks i did not see that one comming

 

[Nakosis]

Most of that is not relevant.

But why "doesnt seem to be working" is your answer? Is it your opinion without any evidence or study or do you have anything behind your statement at all?

Think about it bro.

The rise of religion in China. The CCP seems to be getting worried about the decline of atheism.
China’s religion problem: Why the Chinese Communist Party views religious belief as a threat

 

[Nakosis]

Surely for a time, decades(?), you can be 'happy' without a 'religion' (consistent structured practice?) of the one true God, it seems (from what I experienced).

In that time when I did not yet believe (or not intellectually at least in the conscious thought), I had a rich life with a lot of love, fun, friends, and adventures, and never enough time in the day for all the enjoyable things I wanted to do, and fell asleep satisfied over and over.

Actually....that was in the days when I was not yet a conscious believer, but had been doing as Jesus said in "Love your neighbor as yourself" -- so...that's a key part of what happened, why my life in those days became so very rich and fulfilling, where the last great things (so I thought) were added to my life, and it seemed hard to imagine it being better.

But....I guess it's fair to say that I had some of that richness as part of the outcome of my choice to do as Christ said to do. Yes, that's accurate.

Still, this abundant good quality of life at that point, enjoyable life, did not stop me from eventually seeking to gain what is even better. So, I looked for more from Him. Now I still have what I had before, but something so much more, also.

Why did you seek better? Did you feel something was still missing?

If so, what did you feel was missing or what do you think is missing in the lives of the non-religious?

 

[firedragon]

The rise of religion in China. The CCP seems to be getting worried about the decline of atheism.
China’s religion problem: Why the Chinese Communist Party views religious belief as a threat

Maybe they are. Some atheists are very dogmatic and religious and tribalistic so they of course worry about things like that.