Only Unhappy People Need Religion?

[Hermit Philosopher]

Ok, what do you see as the purpose of religion?

In a sense I see one purpose of religions is to provide controls on the actions of many. The fear of God is used for enforcement.
Another purpose is people desire a peace of mind. I see religion providing that with the concept of an afterlife.

These I see as benefits to the individual.

Ideally, faith humbles the ego and alters our behaviour towards each other, making us less proud, more tolerant and willing to understand one another. Though as I write, I do realise that some faiths unfortunately appear to almost do the opposite. That’s a pity, I think.

Humbly
Hermit

 

[nPeace]

Are you happy all of the time? That might be an aberration.

I'm just being honest. I feel I am happy more than I should be given the circumstances I find myself in.

Happy while being beat on? Well I'm no fan of pain. Though I hear some people are. Pain triggers the chemical response they are looking for I suppose.

IMO there are times when anger and fear are appropriate. So to be happy all of the time would not be appropriate.

I guess the extreme example would the self-immolating monks. The desire for the feelings triggered by their beliefs are greater than their fear of pain.

You then clarify what I earlier said.
No one is truly happy without God, because true joy and happiness is not dependent on external circumstances. It is inner. It is joy of holy spirit. That is why Jesus was joyful though suffering. That is why Jehovah God is described as the happy God.
It's not a matter of enjoying pain. It's a matter of seeing beyond the pain. Hebrews 12:2 ; 1 Timothy 1:11

Being happy and joyful all the time does not mean walking around with a big smile on one's face all the time. That's not happiness. That's a mask. Would we carry a broad smile on our face, when a friend gives us bad news? Maybe they say to us, "We just lost our baby." ...and we attend the funeral with a big smile on our face?

However, that doesn't take away our happiness, or joy.
It does highlight the fact of what Deeje said.

What I think most people are looking at though, is the external. This is why many think they are happy... and it is a kind of happy, but not real or true.
I don't expect you would understand though. Or do you?

 

[nPeace]

I'm sure It is. Entertainment especially. Would they be unhappy, sure, they might even turn to religion.
Kind of the point. If you can't get it one way you find another to trigger the desired feelings.

Why turn to religion?
Perhaps if you answered my earlier questions you would have the right answer.

What causes a celebrity with a lucrative career ahead of them, vacations in luxury, and many avenues for pleasure, to give that up for a dedicated service in religion?
Why would one who is an Atheist, turn to religion, and face mockery, ridicule, and even extreme hatred and persecution?

Though many fight against it, many eventually come back to what they know deep within. Every human has a spiritual need. Either they fill it, or they don't.
Refusing to fill it, only keeps one in the fantasy world trying to find happiness, and being eluded by it.

So at some point, they are either forced to submit, and then ask themselves, "Why didn't I do this before?" Or, they start looking in the right direction... although some choose to stay on the outskirts - like being in a religion that is in the world. Or... they accept their fantasy.

Each person has their choice. We can choose to harm ourselves further because we don't want God, but that's good... in a way - not good for such persons, but good that their lack of love for the creator bars them from the new world where righteousness is to dwell.
They however miss out on true happiness now, and in the life to come.

 

[Nakosis]

Why turn to religion?
Perhaps if you answered my earlier questions you would have the right answer.

The only question I think I did not answer was if I could relate to being overjoyed.
The answer, sure, just not on a continual basis. Sometimes feeling overjoyed is not the appropriate response.

Though many fight against it, many eventually come back to what they know deep within. Every human has a spiritual need. Either they fill it, or they don't.
Refusing to fill it, only keeps one in the fantasy world trying to find happiness, and being eluded by it.

Ok, but it is really the way the body works. Feelings are a response to chemicals released into the physical body. This is fairly well documented. Spiritual need is just another way of we have a need to trigger the feelings we desire.

So at some point, they are either forced to submit, and then ask themselves, "Why didn't I do this before?" Or, they start looking in the right direction... although some choose to stay on the outskirts - like being in a religion that is in the world. Or... they accept their fantasy.

I would agree but I would also say religion is part of that fantasy.

Each person has their choice. We can choose to harm ourselves further because we don't want God, but that's good... in a way - not good for such persons, but good that their lack of love for the creator bars them from the new world where righteousness is to dwell.
They however miss out on true happiness now, and in the life to come.

Sure with religion, people can learn to trigger the desired feelings in a non-materialistic way. The communist thinking is that this happens when all material needs are met. Kind of hard to test that.
Personally, I find that these feelings can be triggered without either material or spiritual trappings. It is just a physical process of the body one can learn to indirectly control.

I suspect other ways have evolved of obtaining these desired feelings. Friendship, love, charity, etc...

 

[Nakosis]

You then clarify what I earlier said.
No one is truly happy without God, because true joy and happiness is not dependent on external circumstances. It is inner. It is joy of holy spirit. That is why Jesus was joyful though suffering. That is why Jehovah God is described as the happy God.
It's not a matter of enjoying pain. It's a matter of seeing beyond the pain. Hebrews 12:2 ; 1 Timothy 1:11

Being happy and joyful all the time does not mean walking around with a big smile on one's face all the time. That's not happiness. That's a mask. Would we carry a broad smile on our face, when a friend gives us bad news? Maybe they say to us, "We just lost our baby." ...and we attend the funeral with a big smile on our face?

However, that doesn't take away our happiness, or joy.
It does highlight the fact of what Deeje said.

What I think most people are looking at though, is the external. This is why many think they are happy... and it is a kind of happy, but not real or true.
I don't expect you would understand though. Or do you?

Pure happiness is a complex chemical process. Religion just helps in trigger this. I know you think there is more to it but there is not. The science and understanding is there if you care to look.

 

[nPeace]

The only question I think I did not answer was if I could relate to being overjoyed.
The answer, sure, just not on a continual basis. Sometimes feeling overjoyed is not the appropriate response.

I must have missed your answers to my previous questions, becase I don't recall seeing them.
Was your answer that Atheists turn to religion and face mockery, ridicule, and even extreme hatred and persecution, because they want to find happiness? Talk about aberration.
Tell me you are not serious. Are you? You are not joking?
....and celebrities give up fame, wealth and pleasure for to find happiness in a life of restriction, and strict discipline. Hmmm. You believe that?
Why would someone do that, unless they realized that there was really something there - something real, which they were obviously missing.

Would you sell everything you had to buy a field? Unless...
The Kingdom of the heavens is like a treasure, hidden in the field, that a man found and hid; and because of his joy, he goes and sells everything he has and buys that field.
. . .the Kingdom of the heavens is like a traveling merchant seeking fine pearls. Upon finding one pearl of high value, he went away and promptly sold all the things he had and bought it. Matthew 13:44, 46

Now that makes sense to me.
No one gives up what people consider valuable possessions for what is considered garbage, unless they see the real value in it.

Do you realize that when a person attaches themselves to a dedicated life of service to God, it costs them dearly. Some lose friends, family, respect. They are ridiculed, and hated, and in some cases severely persecuted.
That isn't seeking happiness in the way you are trying to present it. How? Can you explain... elaborate on it some more. I'm not getting it.

Ok, but it is really the way the body works. Feelings are a response to chemicals released into the physical body. This is fairly well documented. Spiritual need is just another way of we have a need to trigger the feelings we desire.

"The way the body works"?
Don't be so vague about it. Tell me more about these chemicals, and how non physical things are so intricately linked to happiness. I want to see some of these documentation too. Don't deprive us of such good stuff.

I would agree but I would also say religion is part of that fantasy.

That's what you would say, and I am sure you have your reason(s). Would you mind sharing how so?

Sure with religion, people can learn to trigger the desired feelings in a non-materialistic way. The communist thinking is that this happens when all material needs are met. Kind of hard to test that.

I like that last statement, because you had me going there for a moment. People say all sorts of things don't they... especially when they want to convince themselves of what they want to believe.
We do have a sure way of testing it though...
Why do people who turn to spirituality still crave sexual desire, entertainment, and other physical or material things which they often have to struggle to avoid?
If what you say is true, they shouldn't, right?

Personally, I find that these feelings can be triggered without either material or spiritual trappings. It is just a physical process of the body one can learn to indirectly control.

So you say. We have no reason to believe you though, based on what we've seen so far.

I suspect other ways have evolved of obtaining these desired feelings. Friendship, love, charity, etc...

Oh. It's your suspicion. Or is it what you want to believe?

 

[nPeace]

Pure happiness is a complex chemical process. Religion just helps in trigger this. I know you think there is more to it but there is not. The science and understanding is there if you care to look.

Of course. Show me the papers. You don't want me to take your word for it, do you?

 

[alypius]

If not your happiness, then how is your religious belief benefiting you?

If one is convinced his religious beliefs are true, then does it matter whether it benefits him?

 

[Colt]

Ok, that's your belief, fair enough.
Some believe everyone gets eternal life. How do you know you are right and they are wrong?

Life is a gift, survival after death is optional. In an increasingly spiritual universe there is simply no place for defiant spoiled brats to exists at will forever. To wholly identify with sin (deliberate disloyalty to deity) we eventually become unreal to the world of the spirit. Man is not the cause of his life, he is the effect of the creative will of Fist Cause. Like it or not we are subservient to the will and wisdom of the creator.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Or can you be happy without religion?

If not your happiness, then how is your religious belief benefiting you?

I think you're right!

Only Unhappy People Need Religion?

Trusting Jesus and not being a drunkard, drug abuser, adulterer, evil parent, tax dodger, kind to other people, etc. has made me UNHAPPY.

 

[Scott C.]

Do you know it?

I think we are all on a quest to know the truth about our existence. I believe my faith teaches many importants things that are true. I don't know everything about the truths taught in my faith nor do I know all truths taught elsewhere, of course. My point is that rather than ask if religion makes me happy, I ask if truth makes me happy. To the extent that a particluar religion teaches truth, and to the extent that I follow that truth, I find happiness.

 

[Nakosis]

I think we are all on a quest to know the truth about our existence. I believe my faith teaches many importants things that are true. I don't know everything about the truths taught in my faith nor do I know all truths taught elsewhere, of course. My point is that rather than ask if religion makes me happy, I ask if truth makes me happy. To the extent that a particluar religion teaches truth, and to the extent that I follow that truth, I find happiness.

Ok,
I was on the same quest at one time. Now I'm not. I've let go of the desire for spiritual truth. Not saying you should this is just where I am at. After many years of searching, I no longer believe there exists a spiritual truth to find.

 

[Nakosis]

I think you're right!

Only Unhappy People Need Religion?

Trusting Jesus and not being a drunkard, drug abuser, adulterer, evil parent, tax dodger, kind to other people, etc. has made me UNHAPPY.

The question is whether you think you could be happy without religion. Not whether you are happy with religion. Or whether you were happy pre-religion if such a time existed for you.

 

[Nakosis]

Life is a gift, survival after death is optional. In an increasingly spiritual universe there is simply no place for defiant spoiled brats to exists at will forever. To wholly identify with sin (deliberate disloyalty to deity) we eventually become unreal to the world of the spirit. Man is not the cause of his life, he is the effect of the creative will of Fist Cause. Like it or not we are subservient to the will and wisdom of the creator.

I'm not defiant, just honest about my ignorance. If heaven is barred to the honest, I guess that is just the way it has to be.

 

[Nakosis]

If one is convinced his religious beliefs are true, then does it matter whether it benefits him?

You don't think knowing the truth is beneficial? Even if the truth you know is only a belief.

There is some security in the knowledge of the truth. Not much security in uncertainty. Can people really be happy facing an uncertain future?

 

[Nakosis]

Of course. Show me the papers. You don't want me to take your word for it, do you?

Read at your own risk.
https://www.happyfeed.co/research/4-brain-chemicals-make-you-happy

It just makes sense to me that there is no mystery.
Material things are temporary, so happiness based on materialism is temporary.
Spiritual things are true as long as you believe. Great as long as you keep believing.
Eventually, my physical body will die. No more happiness.
For now however, as long as one is alive, they can learn to be happy.

 

[Nakosis]

I must have missed your answers to my previous questions, becase I don't recall seeing them.
Was your answer that Atheists turn to religion and face mockery, ridicule, and even extreme hatred and persecution, because they want to find happiness? Talk about aberration.
Tell me you are not serious. Are you? You are not joking?
....and celebrities give up fame, wealth and pleasure for to find happiness in a life of restriction, and strict discipline. Hmmm. You believe that?
Why would someone do that, unless they realized that there was really something there - something real, which they were obviously missing.

Why would they be happy if they obviously felt something was missing from their life. Sure, in the pursuit of happiness people will do just about anything.

Would you sell everything you had to buy a field? Unless...
The Kingdom of the heavens is like a treasure, hidden in the field, that a man found and hid; and because of his joy, he goes and sells everything he has and buys that field.
. . .the Kingdom of the heavens is like a traveling merchant seeking fine pearls. Upon finding one pearl of high value, he went away and promptly sold all the things he had and bought it. Matthew 13:44, 46

Seems obvious the pearl he found made him happy.

Now that makes sense to me.
No one gives up what people consider valuable possessions for what is considered garbage, unless they see the real value in it.

Happiness has high value.

Do you realize that when a person attaches themselves to a dedicated life of service to God, it costs them dearly. Some lose friends, family, respect. They are ridiculed, and hated, and in some cases severely persecuted.
That isn't seeking happiness in the way you are trying to present it. How? Can you explain... elaborate on it some more. I'm not getting it.

If none of these things are bringing them happiness/joy they look elsewhere.

"The way the body works"?
Don't be so vague about it. Tell me more about these chemicals, and how non physical things are so intricately linked to happiness. I want to see some of these documentation too. Don't deprive us of such good stuff.

Link was provided in the previous post.

That's what you would say, and I am sure you have your reason(s). Would you mind sharing how so?

God convinced me. I'd like to say I figured it out on my own but the truth is God convinced me that the religions of man were not based on any real knowledge of God.

I like that last statement, because you had me going there for a moment. People say all sorts of things don't they... especially when they want to convince themselves of what they want to believe.
We do have a sure way of testing it though...
Why do people who turn to spirituality still crave sexual desire, entertainment, and other physical or material things which they often have to struggle to avoid?
If what you say is true, they shouldn't, right?

Because they haven't completely let go of all material attachments. I think some can/have through their spiritual belief but very few.
Just shows spiritual belief is not perfect either.

So you say. We have no reason to believe you though, based on what we've seen so far.

Who's we? Who else are you claiming to speak for?

Oh. It's your suspicion. Or is it what you want to believe?

You claim to have found "true happiness". I have to take your word for it. I'm not a mind reader.
When others make claims about their state of mind, I have to take their word on it as well. I don't claim knowledge of something I don't know.
I have no desire to believe or disbelieve, just giving people the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Skywalker]

Why would they be happy if they obviously felt something was missing from their life. Sure, in the pursuit of happiness people will do just about anything.



Seems obvious the pearl he found made him happy.



Happiness has high value.



If none of these things are bringing them happiness/joy they look elsewhere.



Link was provided in the previous post.



God convinced me. I'd like to say I figured it out on my own but the truth is God convinced me that the religions of man were not based on any real knowledge of God.



Because they haven't completely let go of all material attachments. I think some can/have through their spiritual belief but very few.
Just shows spiritual belief is not perfect either.



Who's we? Who else are you claiming to speak for?



You claim to have found "true happiness". I have to take your word for it. I'm not a mind reader.
When others make claims about their state of mind, I have to take their word on it as well. I don't claim knowledge of something I don't know.
I have no desire to believe or disbelieve, just giving people the benefit of the doubt.

I believe that everyone knows that there's something out there and people mistaken that desire to search God for other things.

 

[nPeace]

Read at your own risk.
https://www.happyfeed.co/research/4-brain-chemicals-make-you-happy

It just makes sense to me that there is no mystery.
Material things are temporary, so happiness based on materialism is temporary.
Spiritual things are true as long as you believe. Great as long as you keep believing.
Eventually, my physical body will die. No more happiness.
For now however, as long as one is alive, they can learn to be happy.

I should not have taken the risk.
Chemicals That make you Happy. What?
Chemicals don't make you happy. No more than chemicals make us cry.
That's like saying hands make us work, and saliva makes us swallow... imo.

Mystery? What are you talking about?
Happiness based on materialism? So you don't believe it's chemicals. Now you are confusing me.

Spiritual things are true as long as you believe. What?
I think you are making stuff up. There is absolutely nothing factual about what you are saying.

Probably the only true statement you made here, is that when you are dead, you can't experience happiness. Obviously.

Learn to be happy? There goes the whole chemical presentation.

 

[BilliardsBall]

The question is whether you think you could be happy without religion. Not whether you are happy with religion. Or whether you were happy pre-religion if such a time existed for you.

I could be happy with religion. I'd be sad without Jesus Christ. He is my temporal and eternal life.