Opinions on Spanking

[Autodidact]

It's not that complicated. You take matched sets of families with similar income, etc., in which half of them spank and half do not. Then you observe and record the behavior of the children, the criminal record of the children after adulthood, juvenile criminal record, or whatever you think is a good measure of disciplinary success. We did that. We found that the families without spanking did better than those with. Therefore we learned that spanking is not effective.

I only explained why: it undermines the most important parental tools you have, bonding and setting an example.

It's not only unnecessary, it's counter-productive.

 

[linwood]

I don`t understand why we teach our children that physical violence is an unacceptable method of dealing with our problems then use physical violence to deal with our problems with them.

It`s stupid.

 

[DallasApple]

I don`t understand why we teach our children that physical violence is an unacceptable method of dealing with our problems then use physical violence to deal with our problems with them.

It`s stupid.

It only is acceptable when its a minor helpless child that is totally dependent on you as an example and its to "teach them a lesson".

Because you "love" them so much and also you would 'never do anything to hurt them".

And its not just about the child thats being hit..I remember the horror and fear(yes I remember) ..waiting for my cousins "daddy" to get home to "spank them in private" with a belt for misbehaving while he was at work.I sat on the basement steps crying while listening to them get lashed with a belt..I was extremely distraught I couldnt do anything to stop it or help them..I HATED in my heart my uncle and my aunt.

I was only 5 and 6 years old and I knew what they were doing was barbaric.

Love

Dallas

 

[Thief]

So did your cousins turn out alright?

 

[DallasApple]

So did your cousins turn out alright?

What is allright?

If you mean are they ax murderers/ No..

Did they kill themselves? No..

Im not going to go down the list of their dysfunctions.But I will say there were 2 boys and 1 girl.The girl weighs about 400lbs..cant be trusted she is an outright thief who stole form my grandmother and I mean 10,000s of thousands of dollars.Has been married 2 times that we know of..has one daughter and one son ..the son is emotionally disturbed and she gave up custody of both of them to family members.Now she is supported by the very father that whipped her and she is in her late 40's.

The boys are another story..They managed to do better..They are both married to women who dominate them.And they make a lot of money.

But again I dont know what you mean by allright?

Love

Dallas

 

[Alceste]

Mis-interpretation.
But of course the child would have to be old enough to appreciate a lecture of higher moral values.

In my personal experience, both as a former child and an adult caregiver for children, a lecture on higher moral values is a far more painful and memorable punishment and deterrent for misbehavior than physical violence, no matter how small the child. If they are old enough to speak, they're old enough to squirm their way through a lecture about their disappointing and uncivil behavior. If they're not old enough to speak, they're young enough to be easily controlled without violence.

 

[Sunstone]

I used to mind a couple kids for a friend of mine. About 3 or 4 nights a week for several years while she worked. Their mother never resorted to spanking the kids. Neither did I. Both kids turned out rather well.

 

[Alceste]

I used to mind a couple kids for a friend of mine. About 3 or 4 nights a week for several years while she worked. Their mother never resorted to spanking the kids. Neither did I. Both kids turned out rather well.

Maybe you should go and beat them retroactively and see if that makes them any better.

 

[Sunstone]

Maybe you should go and beat them retroactively and see if that makes them any better.

But why should I want to encourage Republicanism or other sordid and deviant behaviors in them?

 

[Alceste]

But why should I want to encourage Republicanism or other sordid and deviant behaviors in them?

Because Thief says low self-esteem, sexual dysfunction, aggressive tendencies and an authoritarian morality is good for their character.

 

[DallasApple]

In my personal experience, both as a former child and an adult caregiver for children, a lecture on higher moral values is a far more painful and memorable punishment and deterrent for misbehavior than physical violence, no matter how small the child. If they are old enough to speak, they're old enough to squirm their way through a lecture about their disappointing and uncivil behavior. If they're not old enough to speak, they're young enough to be easily controlled without violence.

WHAT!!!

I souldnt BEAT my 17 month old grandbaby into submision out of pure fear and avoidence of being beatin by me?

Why not..what harm could be done???

I can get him in order with ONE or two SMACKS!I can SHOCK him!

SHOCK the monkey!..Im the BOSS with the hand that can hit him at MY leisure if he doesnt do what I say!!! HA HA!@!!!

Whats he gonna do about it?..I assume he wil behave as I say if he doesnt want to be whipped.

Maybe later I wont even have to break the vessels in my hands and just threaten ..and say .."STOP it or Im going to beat the hell out of you".Or even nicer (this is ironic) 'do you WANT me to "spank" you"?

Qick easy sharp.SHOCK the monkey.Scare the monkey..

Love

Dallas

 

[Thief]

Some recent remarks were uncalled for....mixed with assumption and extreme attitude.

I am much more main line than you think.

Sorry to hear you people are so dysfunctional.

Good luck with all of that.

 

[DallasApple]

Here is the sad part.. they are little people.They never asked to even be born.So they are hit and striked for basically existing and not doing what the parents want.

I say dont have kids if you are so barbaric you cant take the time to show them the ropes.Allow them to make some mistakes without hitting them.Only tell them NO..never YES.Never say thats GREAT because we need to "teach" them character by letting them realize good behavior is not going to be rewarded..but bad behavior sure as hell will warrent being hit..

I feel sorry for the children..People who want to have sex for pleasure and get a REWARD for the act of sex will tell the very being they allow to POP out of that NOW we are going to BUILD your character by you learning there is NO reward.

THEY NEVER even ASKED to be BORN!And MOST got PLEASURE for 10 or 15 seconds during there conception.

But they..the little innocents need to be BEATEN!

How about this..KEEP it in YOUR pants..YOU suffer.DONT have relations..CERTAINTLY dont make INNOCENT children responsible for the fact you wanted to get laid ...Which is how MOST chldren come about..YOU learn its not about "reward".YOU learn "discipline".

If you expect little children to do it..DO it YOURSELF>

NO ONE beat YOU into concieving.

JESUS CHRIST!

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Some recent remarks were uncalled for....mixed with assumption and extreme attitude.

I am much more main line than you think.

Sorry to hear you people are so dysfunctional.

Good luck with all of that.

You asked a question ..I answered it.

Love

Dallas

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Your sarcasm betrays you.
At least it looks like sarcasm.
You also make assumptions.

I was raised by my grandparents until I was almost ten.
Then my mother took over.

From one extreme to the other, I know first hand, the full extent both ends of this discussion.

Spanking is a technique. Most parents apply it with reservation and well played results.

Participants here, either have no experience, or the experience they draw from coincidently has little occasion in it.

Perhaps this topic should have been polled first.

I am sorry but I am a parent and worked as a behavior consultant. I worked with the whole spectrum of kids from developmentally delayed kids to very badly abused children. I worked in the homes of rich silicon valley executives, And with abused women who were trying to raise their kids in homeless shelters. Spanking is a technique but I believe it to be unnecessary with almost all children. Why use a canon when a fly swatter will do.

I do agree with you in this respect. I have seen many good parents who spank,and some poor parents who don't.

 

[Alceste]

Here is the sad part.. they are little people.They never asked to even be born.So they are hit and striked for basically existing and not doing what the parents want.

I say dont have kids if you are so barbaric you cant take the time to show them the ropes.Allow them to make some mistakes without hitting them.Only tell them NO..never YES.Never say thats GREAT because we need to "teach" them character by letting them realize good behavior is not going to be rewarded..but bad behavior sure as hell will warrent being hit..

I feel sorry for the children..People who want to have sex for pleasure and get a REWARD for the act of sex will tell the very being they allow to POP out of that NOW we are going to BUILD your character by you learning there is NO reward.

THEY NEVER even ASKED to be BORN!And MOST got PLEASURE for 10 or 15 seconds during there conception.

But they..the little innocents need to be BEATEN!

How about this..KEEP it in YOUR pants..YOU suffer.DONT have relations..CERTAINTLY dont make INNOCENT children responsible for the fact you wanted to get laid ...Which is how MOST chldren come about..YOU learn its not about "reward".YOU learn "discipline".

If you expect little children to do it..DO it YOURSELF>

NO ONE beat YOU into concieving.

JESUS CHRIST!

Love

Dallas

Temper! Blasphemy and filthy language! Do you want me to give you a smack?

 

[Aquitaine]

It's not that complicated. You take matched sets of families with similar income, etc., in which half of them spank and half do not. Then you observe and record the behavior of the children, the criminal record of the children after adulthood, juvenile criminal record, or whatever you think is a good measure of disciplinary success. We did that. We found that the families without spanking did better than those with. Therefore we learned that spanking is not effective.

I only explained why: it undermines the most important parental tools you have, bonding and setting an example.

It's not only unnecessary, it's counter-productive.

Actually, it is very complicated. This is our upbringing, it's one of the most complicated times in our existence, if not the most complicated time. It's not as simple as just *income* + *spank, no spank* = accurate result.

There's far more aspects of one's childhood than just those two factors. What about local crime rates of the area, what about local economic prosperity, education standards of the local schools, public trust with the Police, public happyness etc.

Plus there's plenty of other things which I think cannot be measured, like the relationship of the parent-child, the trust, the patience, how/what kind of role-model, family integrity etc.

If criminal activity is going to be one of the major aspects for "judging" the subjects, then you're going to have to look at the many many aspects which contribute to crime rates in an area - and although I cannot back it up, I sincerely think spanking is not gonna be a major cause of crime.

Off the top of my head, factors which can determine crime generally are things like:

Police coverage/effectiveness.
Economic stability/job availability.
Education/discipline standards in schools.
Racial/Religious tensions within the local populace.
Justice.
Responsibilities of the local populace.
Integration of different "sects" within the populace.
Containment of illegal items/drugs, although this is more towards the hardcore drugs/weapons.
Family stability.

etc etc.

Family stability being one of the most important, as it can have a severe impact on the children. There's far too many other aspects to have to consider, like whether or not there's been a divorce, or if any of the parents has an unhealthy addiction, or gambles, or is irresponsible, or is a bad role model, or doesn't discipline (spanking doesn't instantly = discipline), or neglects the children, or is very aggressive, or if the parent(s) have a criminal record of their own etc.

What if the family is a good role-model, but the neighbors/friends are bad ones? Since we're shaped by our society as a whole, you've gotta take even unrelated people into consideration.



I just think this research is trying to find a pattern in something that is so complicated that it's almost impossible. Also, if the only factors involved are finances, spanking/no-spanking, and the future criminal record of the child, then I tihnk it's too simplistic and not accurate enough.

Not to mention the amount of messed up youth we have nowadays who weren't spanked, so spanking can't be that bad, and whose to say that children don't suffer these things purely as a result of going through their teens?

 

[Alceste]

I just think this research is trying to find a pattern in something that is so complicated that it's almost impossible. Also, if the only factors involved are finances, spanking/no-spanking, and the future criminal record of the child, then I tihnk it's too simplistic and not accurate enough.

When you can get that analysis published in a child psychology journal, I'll give it the same consideration as the research. Until then, it only looks like you feel your personal reasoning skills are superior to the scientific method, at least in this case. That's a point of view I disagree with. The scientific method is the best way we have to ferret out things about the world that might be objectively true. I'd never dismiss its findings just so I don't have to change my personal opinion.

 

[linwood]

I'd never dismiss its findings just so I don't have to change my personal opinion.
[/font]

What about personal experience?

You shouldn`t accept science as sacred either, it destroys the purpose of science.

I think Paul has a point, child rearing is far too complex to cite one single parental concept as being too influencial.

Honestly, most people my age were brought up with some type of corporeal punishment and don`t fit into the studies conclusion.

Is corporeal punishment a factor?
Most definitely.

Is it one of many factors?
Most probably.

 

[DallasApple]

When you can get that analysis published in a child psychology journal, I'll give it the same consideration as the research. Until then, it only looks like you feel your personal reasoning skills are superior to the scientific method, at least in this case. That's a point of view I disagree with. The scientific method is the best way we have to ferret out things about the world that might be objectively true. I'd never dismiss its findings just so I don't have to change my personal opinion.
[/font]

I just dont see why it would be so difficult to believe that if ADULTS thrive better without being smacked for making a bad choice and do better with positive reinforcement and incentives why it wouldnt be so for children?If we break the law..we get put in "time out'(jail)..if I speed I have to pay a monetary penalty..If beign hit is such a great deterrent why dont they just beat me instead?

Why would it be O.K to hit a human whos BRAIN isnt even fully developed yet in order to teach them things including violence is wrong?

What about a mentally disabled person? Many of them can remain in the emotional and intellctual world of a very young child..should they then be beaten wih a belt over bad behavior for the rest of their lives?

It is ..its pathetic to hit a person who is basically what amounts to temporarily retarded.

Love

Dallas