Opinions on Spanking

[Aquitaine]

My opinion as a parent is that it's counter-productive. It actually undermines your effectiveness and child-discipline, because it negatively impacts your bond and your ability to role-model. These are #1 and #2, in that order, in terms of their importance to your ability to parent. You children do what you want because they love and admire you. Anything that undercuts those things is counter-productive.

I guess that's where our opinions will deviate, slightly. Of course not about #1 and #2. But I will still hold the possibility that circumstancial spanking may not have a negative affect on a child, and can be incorporated into a parenting strategy. Of course I recognise that it may turn out to be negative, and that it depends on the situations and child. But regardless, I will still "support" the use of spanking, depending on the circumstances.



Heh, I guess it's a good thing I have no kids then, ey! xD

 

[Autodidact]

But what race was the adopted boy, and what race was the adopting father? You're not presuming the adopting Father was White were you?

I'm presuming everyone in the leading study was white, as it is from Denmark, AFAICR.

That would only show it as being an issue of being adopted, not Race.

It indicates that criminality has a heritable component. Do you see why, or do I need to explain it? When trying to figure out whether a trait has a heritable component, the two best kinds of studies are adoptive and identical twins. Do you see why?

Again, no way, totally disagree (if you're making a link between Race and crime, that is).

No, not race, heritability. Totally different things.

Also genetics can also include eye/hair colour, and I'm sure those genetic traits (as with Race) don't contribute to crime.

?? The question is whether criminality has a heritable component. To my utter surprise, it turns out that it does. Don't you think that's weird?

 

[DallasApple]

My opinion as a parent is that it's counter-productive. It actually undermines your effectiveness and child-discipline, because it negatively impacts your bond and your ability to role-model. These are #1 and #2, in that order, in terms of their importance to your ability to parent. You children do what you want because they love and admire you. Anything that undercuts those things is counter-productive.

This is the most important and is all that really matters.How affective are you at teacing them if they already think you are the enemy and quite frankly full of bull ****?

Love

Dallas

 

[Aquitaine]

I'm presuming everyone in the leading study was white, as it is from Denmark, AFAICR.

It indicates that criminality has a heritable component. Do you see why, or do I need to explain it? When trying to figure out whether a trait has a heritable component, the two best kinds of studies are adoptive and identical twins. Do you see why?

No, not race, heritability. Totally different things.

?? The question is whether criminality has a heritable component. To my utter surprise, it turns out that it does. Don't you think that's weird?

Oh, I misunderstood you for Race.

 

[Aquitaine]

This is the most important and is all that really matters.How affective are you at teacing them if they already think you are the enemy and quite frankly full of bull ****?

Love

Dallas

Awwww, cheers Hunny, thanks a lot, Darling.



LOL!

C'mon, it's a bit OTT to say people who support spanking are full of bull****, right?

 

[Aquitaine]

So, does this research indicate the inheritence even if the adopted boy never spent a single moment of his life with his biological father, or is it about boys who spent some of their upbrining with the father, and then got adopted?

If the results say what I think they will, then that is really...... really bizarre.

 

[Autodidact]

So, does this research indicate the inheritence even if the adopted boy never spent a single moment of his life with his biological father, or is it about boys who spent some of their upbrining with the father, and then got adopted?

If the results say what I think they will, then that is really...... really bizarre.

Adopted as infants. Isn't that surprising? For a couple decades now we're starting to see that lots of things that you wouldn't think have any heritable component, actually do.

So one guess is that it's not so much criminality itself that's directly heritable, as traits such as IQ, impulse control, and maybe some other things like response to authority, and that all adds up to tendency to criminal behavior.

 

[Aquitaine]

Adopted as infants. Isn't that surprising? For a couple decades now we're starting to see that lots of things that you wouldn't think have any heritable component, actually do.

So one guess is that it's not so much criminality itself that's directly heritable, as traits such as IQ, impulse control, and maybe some other things like response to authority, and that all adds up to tendency to criminal behavior.

Hmmmm.
Damn I need a platform or stone to do the thinking pose against!

That's weird 'cause that's almost like children inheriting personal preferences from their parents. I wonder if the same thing would exist in opinions, or taste?

 

[Alceste]

Adopted as infants. Isn't that surprising? For a couple decades now we're starting to see that lots of things that you wouldn't think have any heritable component, actually do.

Just a supporting anecdote: One of my best friends was adopted at birth. She grew up in suburbia with an absent-minded professor dad, home-maker, coupon-clipping, hen-pecking mom, and an older brother who was their natural son. She grew up to be feminist punk rock lesbian painter and a heroine addict, while the rest of her family continued their totally white-bread lives. When she decided to look for her birth parents, she discovered her natural mother is a lesbian painter, and her natural brother a punk rocking heroine addict. She felt an immediate connection with both of them, as if she had never before been really understood by anyone.

I heard a very similar story from a woman on a long train trip.

This seems to be a running theme - it's one of those things seems to make finding your birth parents a serious mind-**** for adopted people.

 

[Aquitaine]

Just a supporting anecdote: One of my best friends was adopted at birth. She grew up in suburbia with an absent-minded professor dad, home-maker, coupon-clipping, hen-pecking mom, and an older brother who was their natural son. She grew up to be feminist punk rock lesbian painter and a heroine addict, while the rest of her family continued their totally white-bread lives. When she decided to look for her birth parents, she discovered her natural mother is a lesbian painter, and her natural brother a punk rocking heroine addict. She felt an immediate connection with both of them, as if she had never before been really understood by anyone.

I heard a very similar story from a woman on a long train trip.

This seems to be a running theme - it's one of those things seems to make finding your birth parents a serious mind-**** for adopted people.

Man that stuff right there is crazy, actually no - it's scary. I've never believed such influences were possible (inherited personality traits) but if it turns out to be true, then....... that would be very............ damn I can't even explain. Weird!

 

[Autodidact]

Man that stuff right there is crazy, actually no - it's scary. I've never believed such influences were possible (inherited personality traits) but if it turns out to be true, then....... that would be very............ damn I can't even explain. Weird!

It's not that weird if you consider that our brains, like all of us, are a result of evolution.

Don't freak out completely. Remember, nothing turns out to be completely heritable. Even identical twins, while more like each other than anyone on earth, also have definite differences. Environment is never ruled out.

 

[Alceste]

Man that stuff right there is crazy, actually no - it's scary. I've never believed such influences were possible (inherited personality traits) but if it turns out to be true, then....... that would be very............ damn I can't even explain. Weird!

Yeah, it is pretty weird. Fortunately, it seems science is making good progress in explaining it for you. Science is good like that.

 

[Alceste]

It's not that weird if you consider that our brains, like all of us, are a result of evolution.

Don't freak out completely. Remember, nothing turns out to be completely heritable. Even identical twins, while more like each other than anyone on earth, also have definite differences. Environment is never ruled out.

Oh yeah, definitely her adopted father was a huge influence too - apart from the radical stuff, she's also quite a serious academic.

 

[Aquitaine]

It's not that weird if you consider that our brains, like all of us, are a result of evolution.

Don't freak out completely. Remember, nothing turns out to be completely heritable. Even identical twins, while more like each other than anyone on earth, also have definite differences. Environment is never ruled out.

I know, of course - but still, if such was proven true, that we "inherit" our personal preferences, then it could lead us to ponder our individuality, and Free Will! Crazy!

Although I won't go that far LuLz!

Still, now I'm interested, I'm gonna go look it up sometime in the future and follow it all, to see how things progress. Although I'll do it another time, and I'm pretty tired so I guess it's good night to you all.

Catch you later.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

Physical and emotional violence is a scale. The more physical and emotional violence that is perpetrated on a person, the more prone to physical and emotional violence that person will be capable of inflicting on others. This is so readily apparent in countless studies, it's not even worth debating. If large amounts of physical and emotional violence are detrimental to people, why on earth would any amount not be detrimental, let alone beneficial? Spanking as "correction" (whatever that is supposed to mean...) is a cop out. I sure as hell didn't learn anything of value by being spanked as a child; it just created an emotional barrier between myself and my father. It felt as if my personal reasons for "misbehaving" were invalid, because the "disciplinary" act of hitting does not address them...it sure as hell makes a very clear judgment on them though. The question of "Do you know why I don't want you to do this or not do this?" is not addressed in hitting.

 

[Aquitaine]

The question of "Do you know why I don't want you to do this or not do this?" is not addressed in hitting.

Well, as with any form of punishment, a "lecture" or "explaination" needs to be given. You can't just spank and then expect that to magically teach them lessons, spanking without any explaination would be as equally useless as taking away their toys for a week, or putting them in time-out, without explaining why it was done.

Don't think that parents who spank, literally just do only that as their parenting strategy.

 

[Autodidact]

Actually, I think a lot of lectures are a waste of time or end up giving attention to the negative behavior. Most effective thing is consequences, and best consequences are actual and logical. Sometimes a lecture can actually undermine the lesson.

 

[Alceste]

Actually, I think a lot of lectures are a waste of time or end up giving attention to the negative behavior. Most effective thing is consequences, and best consequences are actual and logical. Sometimes a lecture can actually undermine the lesson.

I dunno - I remember one of my lectures clear as a bell, and would not be surprised if that single speech is entirely responsible for my respect for integrity, and my insistence on being a person who has it. Maybe you need an eloquent genius of a philosopher for a dad.

 

[Aquitaine]

Actually, I think a lot of lectures are a waste of time or end up giving attention to the negative behavior. Most effective thing is consequences, and best consequences are actual and logical. Sometimes a lecture can actually undermine the lesson.

But perhaps the consequence is the lecture. ^_^

 

[Alceste]

But perhaps the consequence is the lecture. ^_^

Yeah - lol. It certainly was for me. * shudder *.