Opinions on Spanking

[Alceste]

You've gone to far Alceste.

I grew up in a bad neighborhood. Physical abuse came and went at such intervals, I hardly knew what to expect next. Home life and school were the same.

As I grew, up my involvement with the martial arts came and went.

Now, with gray hair and my family all grown up....

YES, a hands on approach can be appropriate.

But it takes experience, 'coming and going', to learn the technique and when to apply it.

How have I "gone too far"? By accepting the fact that all the available empirical research on corporal punishment concludes it is detrimental to the emotional health of children? Or by attempting to share that fact with parents who are apparently unaware of what the available research has revealed?

 

[Thief]

Are your proposing that all children are inherently well behaved?

 

[Alceste]

Are your proposing that all children are inherently well behaved?

No, I'm simply stating the fact that it is not necessary to use physical violence to encourage good behavior, and the fact that multiple studies have conclusively found that parents who hit their children are very likely to be causing long-term emotional damage by doing so.

 

[Thief]

Technique and experience.
Some parents have it...some don't.
I think you're lumping bad results on top of better ones and declaring the whole lump bad.

 

[Alceste]

Technique and experience.
Some parents have it...some don't.
I think you're lumping bad results on top of better ones and declaring the whole lump bad.

None of the studies found good results. Is it possible you are imagining them?

 

[Thief]

And you're lumping your support on the studies you've read?
Do the 'studies' point out...most everyone got spanked as they grew up.

OOPS!...that explains this world and it's condition!

Now we really do have a need, to jail every parent that ever did such things.

And you think this world will be better with spoiled brats running everywhere?

 

[Standup Philosopher]

Little kids have not developed moral reasoning. They refrain from anti social behavior to avoid bad consequences, and a swat is a bad consequence. I personally refrained from swatting almost always. I remember swatting my daughter when she pushed her brother into the street, because this was kind of a life and death issue and the swat emphasized that. It is a loving thing to teach your children to value others-it will be an asset to them all their lives. No one likes selfish brats, especially when they are like 40 years-old. Abuse is a whole 'nother thing.

The motive for abuse is venting the adult's anger, not on teaching the child to behave in a socially responsible way. Is the adult behaving selfishly or unselfishly? because I have disciplined my children and it hurt me while helping them-that is not selfish, that is love.
Je'

 

[DallasApple]

And you're lumping your support on the studies you've read?
Do the 'studies' point out...most everyone got spanked as they grew up.

OOPS!...that explains this world and it's condition!

Now we really do have a need, to jail every parent that ever did such things.

And you think this world will be better with spoiled brats running everywhere?

Why would excluding physical violence as a form of discipline create a world of spoiled brats?

No one here has suggested never disciplining children.

Love

Dallas

 

[Scott C.]

I raised six kids. I spanked the first kids more that the later kids. I came to realize that it was not necessary. At it's best, spanking is an unnecessary and ineffective form of discipline. At it's worst, it can turn abusive and harmful.

 

[Thief]

Sounds like your technique got better with experience.
Good for you.
Now stand back and let the rest learn as you did.

 

[Alceste]

Sounds like your technique got better with experience.
Good for you.
Now stand back and let the rest learn as you did.

Pssst, Scott is saying he learned not to spank his kids. You've switched sides.

 

[Thief]

Not really.
When my kids were little...there was so much to they needed to leave alone.
Lengthy discussion was not appropriate.
A hands on approach was used.

As they grew, the hands on approach subsided and I favored better technique.

But to lump the practice of spanking as bad altogether....no.

And of course....the more children you have the better you get.

 

[Alceste]

And you're lumping your support on the studies you've read?
Do the 'studies' point out...most everyone got spanked as they grew up. OOPS!...that explains this world and it's condition!

Baloney. Maybe where you live - certainly not where I live. I don't know any parents who spank their kids. Around here corporal punishment generally perceived as ignorant, counter-productive and unnecessarily violent. All the parents I know use other forms of punishment when their kids misbehave.

Maybe it explains the condition of the US, but Canada's in pretty good shape, frankly.

 

[Thief]

Can personal experience override?
'Standup' has seen a cause to do so.
So did my father.

When I was old enough to do so...I ran out into the street.....in front of a semi-truck.
My father responded....thank God....and I got whomped.

Having a small child of my own I understand how they quickly they get out of sight.

My neighbor brought my daughter back across the road.....at the same moment I came looking for her.

She didn't get spanked....it was too late for that. She would not have been able to correlate her actions with my response.

So maybe you can see...not all parents....do unto their children without cause or reason.

 

[DallasApple]

I spanked my first two when they were younger and for a short time when my 3rd was young then I just sort of realized how rediculous it was.And I remembered how horrible it made me feel when my mother did it.So my 3rd was the lucky one.I probably "only" spankeded him half a dozen times and completely stopped when he was about 4 and he is not a spoiled brat.

My other two arent spoiled brats either but they have shown aggression at times when they were frustrated.My middle son hit my youngest several times(hard) when he was younger and he has thrown things on occasion and has also once or twice gotten up in my husbands face and dared him to hit him.

I realize this is only my expereince and it could be an absolute coincidence but my youngest seems to handle conflict better than the other two.

I dont believe they are 'ruined' over getting spanked(hit) more often) than my youngest I just think they may struggle a little more with what to do with anger and frustration.Not to mention my now 26 year old spanks my grandchild.

I honestly believe if he had never been hit by us that he would find the idea of hitting(spanking) his son absolutley unthinkable.

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Oh and also the running in the street example.I seriously do not trust myslelf not to smack a child hard enough to stun them if they do that.Especially a younger one that you cant explain the absolute fear and terror you just experienced over something like that and what could happen.I wouldnt even think about it I dont think it woudl be a knee jerk reaction .

I think a better idea is to show them some road kill when they are old enough.The reality of what could happen to them.Im sure that would be a lot more effective than smacking them.

Love

Dallas

 

[Nepenthe]

I don't know anyone who spanks their kid. It looks to be a geographic thing, at least here in the U.S. It doesn't surprise me that Texas, Alabama, Arkansas, Mississippi and Tennessee lead the pack in spankin'.

In the U.S., corporal punishment has dropped as the main form of discipline from 59% to 19% (1993), and as of a poll in 2001, 65% of Americans approve and physically punish their child, as opposed to 75% of Canadians who admit to doing so. I didn't expect that. The cynic in me wonders if the polls were worded suggestively or even if Canadians were just more honest and Americans tend to report what they're expected to say? Maybe wolverines and hockey sticks are associated somehow. I dunno.

The U.K. has a huge percentage that use coporal punishment and a majority that support it in schools- up to 2/3 of parents want physical punishment in schools. We don't see that in the U.S. much less Canada. I suspect it ties in with the anti-youth attitude in England that I think I mentioned in this thread.

I'm sure this was mentioned already but corporal punishment studies consistently show that there are strong connections between it and negative childhood behaviors like aggression and anti-social behavior. The only positive correlation is that corporally punished kids tend to comply faster. I personally see compliance as a potential negative, but then again, I'd never dream of hitting my son.

 

[linwood]

Oh and also the running in the street example.....

The only time I ever spanked my daughter was when she was running down the driveway heading for the street.
I caught her too late about a foot into the street and smacked her diapered *** very hard.
As soon as I calmed down I realized the spank I gave her was born of my frustration, failure,anger, and fear and had nothing to do with teaching her or disciplining her.

I`ve never laid a hand to her since.

She`s arguably the perfect child now.

I think a better idea is to show them some road kill when they are old enough.The reality of what could happen to them.Im sure that would be a lot more effective than smacking them.

My youngest boys cat was found down our street run over in the ditch.
I made him wrap it in a towel carry it home and bury it.
It was heartrending the pain he felt losing his cat and having to deal with it himself.

He also never again told his brother he wished him dead.(Something he did quite often prior to burying his cat.)

Not the same exact lesson you mentioned Dallas but the same idea I think.

 

[Alceste]

I don't know anyone who spanks their kid. It looks to be a geographic thing, at least here in the U.S. It doesn't surprise me that Texas, Alabama, Arkansas, Mississippi and Tennessee lead the pack in spankin'.

In the U.S., corporal punishment has dropped as the main form of discipline from 59% to 19% (1993), and as of a poll in 2001, 65% of Americans approve and physically punish their child, as opposed to 75% of Canadians who admit to doing so. I didn't expect that. The cynic in me wonders if the polls were worded suggestively or even if Canadians were just more honest and Americans tend to report what they're expected to say? Maybe wolverines and hockey sticks are associated somehow. I dunno.

I find that surprising too. Can I see your source? I only ask because the US statistic I saw when I was looking around was closer to 90 %. I didn't see a Canadian one. Just checking now, in fact.

 

[Nepenthe]

I find that surprising too. Can I see your source? I only ask because the US statistic I saw when I was looking around was closer to 90 %. I didn't see a Canadian one. Just checking now, in fact.

The 65% was those who approve corporal abuse which I got from here, while this study in 1999 says up to 94% actually used physical abuse to discipline. As does this one. So I quoted a much lower number which was actually those who thought it ok, and not those who actually hit their kid as a form of discipline. I think I was too busy chasing my kid with a belt and screwed up the specifics.

Here's the main source for the Canadian studies: Global Progress- including one study that had as many as 85% of Ontario parents hitting their children. (Lenton, R. L., 1990, “Techniques of child discipline and abuse by parents”, Canadian Review of Sociology & Anthropology, 27, pp. 157-184). So yes, Canadians have a lower abuse percentage, but it's still higher than I expected.