Opinions on Spanking

[Alceste]

This is what I'm on about, Alceste quoted some research into the negative affects of spanking (from what they conlcuded anyways), but all those things are evident in children who arn't spanked. The UK youth of today is a perfect example.

Having just lived in the UK for two years, I'd like to point out there's more than one way to abuse a kid and cause psychological damage. I was shocked at the way English parents treat their kids. At least all the ones I saw. They were horrible to them. Snapping at them all the time, treating them like an irritating burden, yanking them around, and when fed up just ignoring them. And smacking them right out in public. I would be very surprised if most English parents (well, Cornish parents anyway) are not still spanking their kids at home, considering the emotional and physical violence they're comfortable displaying in public.

Maybe you don't notice it because you grew up with it and have never seen any other kind of parenting, but it's no wonder English teenagers are the most miserable in Europe.

 

[monta]

Quite the contrary actually. My son tends to be the kid in the school yard that stands up to the bullies who pick on the smaller kids. He's never hit anyone, bigger or smaller, even if they've hit him first. He uses his head, not his fists, because that is what I've taught him.

I am sorry but I don't see how hitting someone teaches them that hitting someone is wrong.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Having just lived in the UK for two years, I'd like to point out there's more than one way to abuse a kid and cause psychological damage. I was shocked at the way English parents treat their kids. At least all the ones I saw. They were horrible to them. Snapping at them all the time, treating them like an irritating burden, yanking them around, and when fed up just ignoring them. And smacking them right out in public. I would be very surprised if most English parents (well, Cornish parents anyway) are not still spanking their kids at home, considering the emotional and physical violence they're comfortable displaying in public.

Maybe you don't notice it because you grew up with it and have never seen any other kind of parenting, but it's no wonder English teenagers are the most miserable in Europe.

Spanking is pretty much illegal in England actually....

Cornwall is a weird bubble...It is not really representative of England, its a tiny strip of land and the vast majority of people are just passing through.....tourists...I lived there for 2 years myself... 99-01.

Many parents spank or "yank around" their kids....some NEED it..some do not. I think the difference comes when it involves a leather belt or worse....

 

[Alceste]

Spanking is pretty much illegal in England actually....

Cornwall is a weird bubble...It is not really representative of England, its a tiny strip of land and the vast majority of people are just passing through.....tourists...I lived there for 2 years myself... 99-01.

Many parents spank or "yank around" their kids....some NEED it..some do not. I think the difference comes when it involves a leather belt or worse....

Yeah - yanking and snapping and basically disapproving of any overt display of childhood seemed to be the norm in Cornwall, but even in London I saw a mother say to her daughter, who was tired and cuddly, "Oh, for Christ's sake, stop leaning on me, we've talked about this" in front of everybody on the train. It was all a bit of a shock to me. I know people have tempers and nobody can be loving 100 % of the time, but I had never seen so many people display such obvious contempt for their own kids before. I've nannied and babysat for about a dozen families in Canada, and none of them used physical punishment. All of them were, on the whole, loving parents, used positive reinforcement and explained why undesirable behavior is wrong. Not to say there's no child abuse here and no irritable moms, but I think it's less common.

 

[Nepenthe]

Yeah - yanking and snapping and basically disapproving of any overt display of childhood seemed to be the norm in Cornwall, but even in London I saw a mother say to her daughter, who was tired and cuddly, "Oh, for Christ's sake, stop leaning on me, we've talked about this" in front of everybody on the train. It was all a bit of a shock to me. I know people have tempers and nobody can be loving 100 % of the time, but I had never seen so many people display such obvious contempt for their own kids before. I've nannied and babysat for about a dozen families in Canada, and none of them used physical punishment. All of them were, on the whole, loving parents, used positive reinforcement and explained why undesirable behavior is wrong. Not to say there's no child abuse here and no irritable moms, but I think it's less common.

As far as personal anecdotes go, I definitely agree with you that there was a much less "child friendly" culture in London than what I was used to in the U.S. (I can't speak for Canada of course). Irritable parents and a general sense of being put upon seemed the norm from everyday underground travel to shopping at Sainsbury's. It's one of the main reasons my wife wanted to leave; there's a general sense that kids, young teens and younger, are an imposition at best and potential hooligans at worst. Personal aneccdote only of course, but that's how I saw it.
As for spanking, I'd never dream of hitting my kid in any circumstance. I was never spanked by my parents and I'll never hit my kid no matter what age and no matter what he's done.

 

[Autodidact]

What about when they turn teenage and bite back? Or just tell you to ****off?

Also Dallas, what would you do if your child hit you in the face?

Teenagers need: money, transportation, cell phone, computer/internet. You, the parent, have or supply all these things. Get it? As they give you what you want, you give them what they want. If they talk to you rudely, you're suddenly no longer in the mood to drive them to band practice. As they get lousy grades, you lose interest in shelling out money for the Spring trip to Paris. And so forth and so on. You never need to hit them--you are the sole source of what they need and want.

Also teens need a lot of guidance, a lot of conversation, a lot of support and a lot of encouragement. You, the parent, should be one source of all of these.

Positive reinforcement works great with teens.

The LAST thing you should do is hit your teenager. Horrible idea.

Teens are trying to and need to reach autonomy, and your job is to help them do it.

For example: Would they like to have no curfew and no bedtime? O.K., start with a strict curfew. If they make it every night for six months with no mistake, or call if unavoidable emergency, you extend it a half hour, another half hour, etc. and within a couple years you have a teen with no curfew whatsoever, who is home when they say they're going to be home or calls if delayed, and you're both happy.

You can adapt this approach to all kinds of things--make it clear what you're looking to help them accomplish, and hand responsibility over to them to get it done.

 

[Autodidact]

DallasApple, what would you do if your child turned around and hit you in the face?

I'll take this one. This is the one exception for me. I warn them once, make it clear that if they ever use violence against me again, I will hit back VERY HARD. Then, heaven forbid, if it comes to that, I do it. If they whack me, I give them a blow they will never forget. I think it's true that violence begets violence, and I'm O.K. with them learning this from me.

With little ones, who don't know any better, up to around 4 years, I get down to their level, look them in the eyes, put my hands on their shoulders, and say in a commanding voice, "No hitting." That usually works. If not you might need to institute time out, play time is over now, go sit on chair and think about it type stuff. Behavior will not persist.

 

[DallasApple]

As far as personal anecdotes go, I definitely agree with you that there was a much less "child friendly" culture in London than what I was used to in the U.S. (I can't speak for Canada of course). Irritable parents and a general sense of being put upon seemed the norm from everyday underground travel to shopping at Sainsbury's. It's one of the main reasons my wife wanted to leave; there's a general sense that kids, young teens and younger, are an imposition at best and potential hooligans at worst. Personal aneccdote only of course, but that's how I saw it.
As for spanking, I'd never dream of hitting my kid in any circumstance. I was never spanked by my parents and I'll never hit my kid no matter what age and no matter what he's done.

I agree it goes beyond spanking.

The way we talk to our children and the vibes we send them are crucial.There jsut little kids and we say stuff to them or about them that we wouldnt say to a friend or even a perfect stranger..This like.."oh my god you are drivng me crazy" or "shut up"!

Its all this negative stuff.

Even I saw an example of correction that most of us wouldnt even think about..

Instead of saying "stop running"...We should say "please walk".

Talk to them like they are people with feelings not something to order around when they bother us.

Love

Dalals

 

[Alceste]

I'll take this one. This is the one exception for me. I warn them once, make it clear that if they ever use violence against me again, I will hit back VERY HARD. Then, heaven forbid, if it comes to that, I do it. If they whack me, I give them a blow they will never forget. I think it's true that violence begets violence, and I'm O.K. with them learning this from me.

With little ones, who don't know any better, up to around 4 years, I get down to their level, look them in the eyes, put my hands on their shoulders, and say in a commanding voice, "No hitting." That usually works. If not you might need to institute time out, play time is over now, go sit on chair and think about it type stuff. Behavior will not persist.

I admit, that's an exception for me too. When I've been hit by kids, even little ones, I've hit back, but not hard. Just with the equal force to whatever they were able to muster (which isn't much) and just in the arm, even if they go for the face. It shocks them, and is a quick and unambiguous way to communicate how if feels to be on the receiving end of violence compared to explaining it with words. No kid has ever hit me more than once.

Although, since I have a psychoanalyst for a mum-in-law, I don't think I will be able to do that if I decide to have kids.

 

[DallasApple]

I admit, that's an exception for me too. When I've been hit by kids, even little ones, I've hit back, but not hard. Just with the equal force to whatever they were able to muster (which isn't much) and just in the arm, even if they go for the face. It shocks them, and is a quick and unambiguous way to communicate how if feels to be on the receiving end of violence compared to explaining it with words. No kid has ever hit me more than once.

Although, since I have a psychoanalyst for a mum-in-law, I don't think I will be able to do that if I decide to have kids.

Im just not going to hit him back.Especially because I think he is hitting me because my son and DIL hit him when they are angry.

At least he can have me ..that doesnt hit him even when Im dissapointed or hurt or angry with him.

I'd rather tell him..I wont allow him to sit in my lap or pick him up if he wants to hurt me.

Maybe he will learn those are MY bounderies and he will respect them because he will not want to lose the priveledge of sitting in my lap.

If you hit me..I will not let you close enough to me to do it.

Love

Dallas

 

[Mr Cheese]

These days we dont even need to spank kids....

We just drug them :sad:

 

[Autodidact]

Im just not going to hit him back.Especially because I think he is hitting me because my son and DIL hit him when they are angry.

At least he can have me ..that doesnt hit him even when Im dissapointed or hurt or angry with him.

I'd rather tell him..I wont allow him to sit in my lap or pick him up if he wants to hurt me.

Maybe he will learn those are MY bounderies and he will respect them because he will not want to lose the priveledge of sitting in my lap.

If you hit me..I will not let you close enough to me to do it.

Love

Dallas

Actually your method sounds good.

 

[DallasApple]

Actually your method sounds good.

thank you...

Love

Dallas

 

[monta]

These days we dont even need to spank kids....

We just drug them :sad:

Misdiagnosing kids with syndromes and over perscribing drugs is a seperate issue, it isn't like you have 2 choices drugs or violence.

You do have the choice to put in the effort and do it the hard way or take the easy route.

 

[DallasApple]

Misdiagnosing kids with syndromes and over perscribing drugs is a seperate issue, it isn't like you have 2 choices drugs or violence.

You do have the choice to put in the effort and do it the hard way or take the easy route.

I've got a problem with that too sister.

"Give them a pill" (like a LOT of mainly boys) to make them focus and then beat them.

Its "seems" like the easy way out.But it doesnt work and its not even neccesary.

Its easier to "calm down" and parent actively.

I dont even know why some people have kids anymore.

I think Im depressed..Its already September.

Love

Dallas

 

[monta]

I've got a problem with that too sister.

"Give them a pill" (like a LOT of mainly boys) to make them focus and then beat them.

Its "seems" like the easy way out.But it doesnt work and its not even neccesary.

Its easier to "calm down" and parent actively.

I dont even know why some people have kids anymore.
I think Im depressed..Its already September.

Love

Dallas

It is a disgrace the doctors who do this to children should go to prison. If a bus driver delibrately takes a short cut through a school yard and injures a kid I they would go to prison, but a doctor takes a short cut and prescribes an addictive mind altering drug to a kid that doesn't need it and the profession backs him up all the way.

I am not saying some kids don't need medicating but nowhere near the number who are on prescriptions

 

[Autodidact]

Well my youngest is on a ritalin patch and I say thank god. Details if you want.

 

[monta]

Well my youngest is on a ritalin patch and I say thank god. Details if you want.

I am not disputing that some children need medication, just that the numbers don't add up. And ADHD and ADD are way diagnosed , some kids are just understimulated and under exercised, they don't need to be put on meds and have a label slapped on them.

 

[DallasApple]

I am not disputing that some children need medication, just that the numbers don't add up. And ADHD and ADD are way diagnosed , some kids are just understimulated and under exercised, they don't need to be put on meds and have a label slapped on them.

The #'s do NOT add up. Its like one in 4 boys are put on ADD medications.

Even if they need it in that many #'s ..Why?

Love

Dallas

 

[Mr Cheese]

The #'s do NOT add up. Its like one in 4 boys are put on ADD medications.

Even if they need it in that many #'s ..Why?

Love

Dallas

drug companies like profits