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Osama picture to be released

  • Thread starter angellous_evangellous
  • Start date
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Let's be clear. The problems in Islamic society are for the Muslim people to solve. Others have no business interfering. Unfortunately, the west has always used this as an excuse to meddle in the affairs of Muslim nations. Naturally, this results in the 'creation' of more and more Bin Ladens, more and more extremist groups.

This is the real issue - US interference. Ignoring this and calling someone a monster betrays lack of understanding.

With bin Laden, it becomes our problem.

If the Muslim nations did not export terrorism, we wouldn't "interfere."

This is the classic Muslim game I like to call "shoot and whine." Osama shoots, Muslims whine about response.
 

MissAlice

Well-Known Member
This is the real issue - US interference. Ignoring this and calling someone a monster betrays lack of understanding.

While I agree the West should stay out of Iraq and Afghanistan and other affairs, I don't think we had much of a choice "interfering" when Bin Laden's group decided to attack innocent people on our soil. Two wrongs don't make a right in my most honest opinion. I say he is a monster because he targeted innocent people muslim and non-muslim alike so it is our business. It's everyone's business when someone poses a threat to normal everyday people around the world.
 

Chisti

Active Member
While I agree the West should stay out of Iraq and Afghanistan and other affairs, I don't think we had much of a choice "interfering" when Bin Laden's group decided to attack innocent people on our soil. Two wrongs don't make a right in my most honest opinion. I say he is a monster because he targeted innocent people muslim and non-muslim alike so it is our business. It's everyone's business when someone poses a threat to normal everyday people around the world.

9/11 was simply the effect, not the cause. The cause is western interference in ME.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
So a good section of Muslims disagree with some of his means but they agree with the goal of achieving independence of the Muslim nations and liberating ourselves from the American and Western domination. So the goal is noble, but the means weren't.

I can agree with this much of your post.
 

MissAlice

Well-Known Member
9/11 was simply the effect, not the cause. The cause is western interference in ME.


As I said before 2 wrongs do not make a right. He intentionally targeted civilians who had nothing to do with what was going on over there. That in my opinion is pure evil if there is a word for anyone who has no sense of rational or good conscious. Had he been attacking just a military base or the US soldiers, my view of him would be much different.
 
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Chisti

Active Member
As I said before 2 wrongs do not make a right.

You're absolutely right.

He intentionally targeted civilians who had nothing to do with what was going on over there. That in my opinion is pure evil if there is a word for anyone who has no sense of rational or good conscious.
Had he been attacking just a military base or the US soldiers, my view of him would be much different.

Again, you're right. My only point is this: instead of being overly emotional and calling people monsters, it'd be better to understand why people/nations do the things they do. Understanding causal relationships could help; calling people evil doesn't.
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
because people all over the world of all persuasions will want proof that the bogeyman is dead.

yes i know about that, but they are saying that no pictures of any kind of footage will be released because people might get angry or what ever their lame excuse was.
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
if his war was with the west, why have so many muslims been his targets?
What do you mean? His main targets were the American interests? Plus, as I have always said, we need proofs.

There are a lot more suicide bombings and killings happening inside Islamic boarders then outside.
Where? In Iraq? Afghanistan? The two that are occupied by the US. Who is responsible for this killing?
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
It wasn't foreign domination that bothered Bin Laden about the U.S. bases in KSA. The U.S. bases were invited and welcomed by the Saudi regime to defend from Saddam's Iraq, a mutual enemy, and enforce the no-fly zone. Indeed, in one of Bin Laden's fatwas on this subject he doesn't complain of any abuses or problems caused by the U.S. forces in KSA. And remember, in 2003 the U.S. military withdrew from the country.

What really bothered Bin Laden was that KSA is "the land of the two holy places" and none of it must be touched by the military of a non-Muslim nation. It doesn't matter what they do, they just can't be non-Muslim and they can't be in KSA. And the appropriate way to respond to this was to start bombing stuff.
So the American forces in KSA were being unjust? They were oppressing people? Can you give examples? Bin Laden didn't complain of this, at least not in his fatwa from 1996.
Isn't it about what the presence of foreign troops in Saudi Arabia actually represents?
After Saddam Hussein's crazy move, Bin Laden asked the royal family not to depend on foreign non Muslim help, and of course the the Saudi regime welcomed the US "assistance" and then he opposed the presence of the foreign military forces in KSA. The problem was about the growing presence of the USA. Some Muslims characterized the presence of the US in KSA as a treason to Muslims, Allah and His prophet. It is obvious that the presence of the USA in the region and especially "the land of the two scared mosques" caused frustration to many Muslims. I thought this can be understandable.
Didn't the US expand and deepen its control over the Middle East after the gulf war? The presence of the American troops and bases represented this situation.

And Bin Laden believed in freeing people from injustice and oppression .... except for the women of Afghanistan, you mean?
The talk about women of Afghanistan would be more proper if we were speaking about Taliban.
 
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Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
yes i know about that, but they are saying that no pictures of any kind of footage will be released because people might get angry or what ever their lame excuse was.

Good point. Angry nutjobs who want to kill westerners will find a reason to be angry regardless of whether pictures of Bin Laden are released or not. It's impossible to mitigate insanity.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
What do you mean? His main targets were the American interests? Plus, as I have always said, we need proofs.

since when did mosques have anything to do with america?

Do you need to see a list of mosques that have been bombed in pakistan, iraq, afghanistan and other places?

Where? In Iraq? Afghanistan? The two that are occupied by the US. Who is responsible for this killing?

Pakistani province of
Peshawar, kill 5 October 22, 2010
Oct. 22, 2010: Five people were killed when an IED was detonated inside a mosque in Peshawar.
Oct. 7, 2010: Two suicide bombers killed eight people in a coordinated attack on the Abdullah Shah Ghazi shrine in Karachi.
Sept. 3, 2010: A suicide bomber attempted to storm a mosque in Mardan, but was stopped by security guards. One person was killed after he detonated his vest.
Sept. 1, 2010: Suicide bombers detonated during Shia religious processions in Lahore, killing 28 people.
Aug. 23, 2010: A suicide bomber detonated at a mosque in Wana, South Waziristan, killing 18 people.
July 1, 2010: Suicide bombers detonated at the Data Ganj Bakhsh shrine in Lahore, killing 41 people and wounding more than 170.
May 28, 2010: The Punjabi Taliban assaulted two Ahamadi mosques in Lahore, killing more than 70 people.
Dec. 18, 2009: A suicide bomber detonated inside a mosque frequented by policemen in Lower Dir, killing 12.
Dec. 4, 2009: A suicide assault team stormed a mosque in Rawalpindi that is frequented by Army officers, killing 40.
Oct. 20, 2009: A pair of suicide bombers detonated their vests at Islamabad's International Islamic University, killing five.
June 12, 2009: A suicide bomber killed five Pakistanis, including anti-Taliban cleric Dr. Sarfraz Naeemi, in an attack on a mosque in Lahore during Friday prayers.
June 12, 2009: A suicide bomber killed six worshipers and wounded more than 90 in an attack inside a mosque in Nowshera. The attack collapsed the dome of the mosque.
June 5, 2009: A suicide bomber killed 49 worshipers in an attack on a mosque in a remote village in Dir.
April 5, 2009: A suicide bomber killed 24 worshipers and wounded more than 100 in an attack outside a Shia religious center in the Chakwal district in Punjab province.
March 27, 2009: A Taliban suicide bomber killed more than 70 worshipers and wounded more than 125 in an attack at a mosque in the Khyber tribal agency.
March 5, 2009: An attacker threw a hand grenade into the middle of a mosque in Dera Ismail Khan, wounding 25 worshipers.
March 2, 2009: A suicide bomber killed six people during an attack at a gathering in a mosque in the Pishin district in Baluchistan.
Feb. 20, 2008: A suicide bomber killed 32 Pakistanis and wounded more than 85 in an attack on a funeral procession for a Shia elder who was murdered in Dera Ismail Khan.
Feb. 5, 2009: A suicide attack outside a mosque killed more than 30 Shia worshipers and wounded more than 50.
Nov. 22, 2008: A bombing at a mosque in Hangu killed five civilians and wounded seven.
Nov. 21, 2008: A suicide attack on a funeral procession in Dera Ismail Khan killed 10 mourners and wounded more than 25.
Sept. 10, 2008: The Taliban attacked a mosque filled with Ramadan worshipers in the district of Dir in northwestern Pakistan. More than 25 worshipers were killed and more than 50 were wounded.
Aug. 19, 2008: A suicide bomber killed 29 Shia mourners and wounded 35 after detonating in the emergency ward of a hospital.
June 17, 2008: Four Pakistanis were killed and three wounded in a bombing at a Shia mosque in Dera Ismail Khan.
May 19, 2008: Four Pakistanis were killed in a bombing outside a mosque in Bajaur.
Jan. 17, 2008: A suicide bomber killed 10 and wounded 25 in an attack on a Shia mosque in Peshawar.
Dec. 28, 2007: A suicide bomber detonated in the middle of a mosque in Charsadda in an attempt to kill former Interior Minister Aftab Sherpao as he conducted Eid prayers. More than 50 were killed and more than 200 were wounded.


and this is just in pakistan! Iraq and Afghanistan are another story.
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
Pegg, the links say suicide bombers...they represent who? Did Bin Laden call for this? Did these "suicide bombers" receive commands from Bin Laden? What are the links between these killings and Bin Laden?
 
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Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Pegg, the links say suicide bombers...they represent who? Did Bin Laden call for this? Did these "suicide bombers" receive commands from Bin Laden? What are the links between these killings and Bin Laden?

"Al-Qaeda and the Taliban are one and the same. At an operational level we might have different strategies, but at the policy level we are one and the same," Nazir Ahmed

here is the interview where this taliban leader admits that the taliban and alqaeda are linked


If you dont believe that Bin Laden has anything to do with the suicide bombers, that may be true, however, he is guilty by association
 
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angellous_evangellous

Guest
Here's what a Republican had to say about the gruesome nature of the picture (having not seen it himself).

Rep. Peter King (NY-R) disagrees based on what he has heard though, telling reporters "They’re not ghoulish, they’re not going to scare people off, they’re not offensive,” adding “Nothing more than you expect with a person with a bullet in his head.”

Holy crap. :biglaugh:
 
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