Our Gods are not symbolic!

[Vinayaka]

Considering you're a Buddhist, your POV shouldn't be surprising. The teachings are obviously quite different on these matters. But I shall stop here. Mystics don't argue, and there is a rule against debating in the DIRS,

Best wishes on your path.

 

[Red Zambala]

No, if I practice Hindu mantras, Pray to Hindu Deities and Read Vedic scriptures and venerate Hindu Gurus - You can't tell I'm not Hindu!

You, Vinayaka, all the time since I remember you - are trying to prove I am not something right, or I'm not Hindu or I'm not traditionalist - yet - I am - and you are working hard to try to offend me!

But in any way - whether I am Buddhist or Hindu - there is no other Truth as My Choice and Suffering of Sentient beings - There is no religion above being Human and compassionate! Whatever you call it!

 

[Red Zambala]

As a Hindu - you should think about being the servant of your God, instead of your Ego!

AND

2. Not asking questions you are scared to answer yourself!

 

[Maya3]

Red Zambala,
As a Hindu, it is not recommendable to tell people what they should and should not do.

Also the Four Noble Truths aren´t Hindu, they are Buddhist, so it is very understandable that people make the assumption that you are Buddhist.

Maya

 

[Red Zambala]

Four Noble Truths are Human. And Hinduism is for Humans as well as Buddhism, as well all other religions!

"There is no Hindu no Muslim" (C)

As for what I allow me to tell or not to people - let me decide it myself! It has been my mission all my life - to tell and teach people, since I was a little kid, since I started to practice healing, since I started to study philosophies and practice religions, mantras, yantras, meditations, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.....

I was reading Shri Subramuniyaswami and contacting through email when I was 25..... And Now I am 39 and still in regular practice, study, sharing, teaching every day!

 

[ratikala]

Tashi Deleg Red Zambala ji

No, if I practice Hindu mantras, Pray to Hindu Deities and Read Vedic scriptures and venerate Hindu Gurus - You can't tell I'm not Hindu!

You, Vinayaka, all the time since I remember you - are trying to prove I am not something right, or I'm not Hindu or I'm not traditionalist - yet - I am - and you are working hard to try to offend me!

please do not think that there is a delliberate attempt to offend , I am sure this is not the case , may I please join in here , by saying it is not nececarily easy for a Hindu to understand that Tibetan Buddhism and Hinduism can be perfectly compatable , ...prehaps much more so than Theravada Buddhism . one who has not had experience of both may find this a little confusing .

But in any way - whether I am Buddhist or Hindu - there is no other Truth as My Choice and Suffering of Sentient beings - There is no religion above being Human and compassionate! Whatever you call it!

this I can understand entirely yet the majority of Hindus are unfamilliar with Bodhichitta , but that does not mean that it is not there as it is expressed in the loving action of many a Guru , ...

to me it is perfectly possible to be both buddhist and Hindu , ... However I do not expect others to understand because they have not been in the position to have had the experience of both traditions . and unfortunatly I know that I will face some resistance from some who have been led to beleive that Buddhism and Hinduism are incompatable but I do not let this disturb me .

please do not missunderstand Vinayaka ji's motivation , ..I think that there is some simple missunderstanding here.

how ever may i take you back to a previous comment , ....

 

[Maya3]

There is i nothing wrong with liking Buddhism or any other religion and still be Hindu.
I love the prayer of St. Francis for example.
But if I quoted it in a Hindu forum where people didn´t know me, it would be very easy to assume that I was Catholic.


Maya

 

[ratikala]

I was unwillingly browsing some Hindu community pages on Facebook and.....I'm catching myself again to the thought that some aspects of Hinduism can drive me crazy - that (many) people may think of their deities so much.....physically (?!) - in physical terms? - I mean all those things about playing with puppets ... washing...changing garments.....etc. whatever.... you know.....

may I ask why this practice should drive you crazy ?

- I can take almost everything - deities, mantras, prayers, philosophy, etc.....but..... Deity for me is Energy, Shakti, and it primarily dwells in my Heart..... All those figurines, etc. - I can take just symbolically.... yes, they are nice, so what, so are those figurines, so are all this world.....but only what is in my heart matters....in my perception.... But I would never really assign any significance other as childish playing to all that stuff....I remember it was the same many years ago......when I just started in Hinduism and was often watching in our center others doing all that washing..... Well, I am very flexible - I don't mind if they want to do it - they can do, but I personally never felt any inner call to join them or to do it on my own....

it is true that the Deity is many respects shakti , and true that the Deity dwells in the heart , but due to the omnipresence and omnipotence of the Deity it is present not just in the heart , but in all things , it is true also that due to the deities omnicience the deity cnam at will manifest inwhich so ever form dependant upon the aptitude of the devotee , therefore if the devotee wishes to serve the Deity in Murti form then the Deity will reside in that Murti form specificaly to receive the devotee's serva , this only serves to illustrate the mercifull nature of the Deity , this act of serva , washing and derssing the Deity is a beautifull act of devotion and like all devotions it has its own levels of commitment ,it may appear that the Deity is treated like a doll , and even if at first the devotion may appear to be child like by serving the deity one receives the mercy which depens ones understanding . this habit to bathe and dress the Deity and to make physical offerings is realy not so different to the gelugspa tradition of making rice or water offerings to symbolise the hospitalities , having practiced both I find them equal in their depth of poigniency .

Well, I am very flexible - I don't mind if they want to do it - they can do, but I personally never felt any inner call to join them or to do it on my own....

I am glad that you realise the need for flexability , we must remember that we all posess diferent aptitudes and that it is only through the mercy of the Deity that we will each find a path that is suitable for our needs .

 

[Vinayaka]

I know I said I was out, but ....

You see, we've been down this route before, in this forum. You may not have lived through it. At one time the Hindu DIR had many people come and post about non-Hindu concepts. The western new-age universalists could post in any DIR. On Tuesday they were Christians, Wednesday there were Buddhists, Friday pagans, Saturday atheists, and Sunday Muslims, etc. As syncretics, that is how several people felt. It was a problem for a lot of people in a lot of DIRS, Many of them got changed to blue, which means we talk just that faith, but respectful questions are tolerated. (Often the members of individual DIRs voted on it, and the moderators did their job. The Hindu section of the forum is for discussion of Hinduism, Buddhist for Buddhism, LDS for Mormons, etc. and supposedly no DIR is for debate. The forum has debate sections, syncretic sections, comparative sections. That's just the way its set up. Now, some of these people understood this principle, and others didn't and left. But that is basically what happened. (Others can feel free to correct me.)

I actually really like Buddhists, not that I actually know very many. You may not believe that, but it's true. It's just that this is the Hindu house on this forum. That was the point. There are better places to make points about non-Hindu religions.

But for now, clearly the OP topic has run it's course.

 

[ratikala]

Pranama's vinayaka ji

Hee Hee , ....you know me one Bhddhist / Vaisnava sorry it is confusing but in Tibetan Buddhism there is almost no line between Hinduism and Buddhism as far as the Deities go , ...did you know that Red Dzambhala is a Tibetan (possibly nepalese also) form of Ganapati , the remover of obsticals , and bestower of wealth , both in the sence of wisdom and financial stability , the vow of Bodhichita is very closely linked to these Deities that are the bestowers of boons , as these deities have sworn a vow to bestow blessings and grant boons to help the deciples on their spiritual jorney .

 

[Vinayaka]

I just think it may take awhile for newcomers to get used to the way this forum operates. I never intentionally try to insult anyone by putting forth the orthodox POV. It takes several POVs to make a discussion at all. As they say, "a place for everything, and everything in its place."

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram vinayka ji

I know I said I was out, but ....

You see, we've been down this route before, in this forum. You may not have lived through it.

yes I had to live through it , and why I didnt leave at that point I dont know !!!

I was told I had to make a choice between the two , ....

can you immagine how painfull that is ???

At one time the Hindu DIR had many people come and post about non-Hindu concepts. The western new-age universalists could post in any DIR. On Tuesday they were Christians, Wednesday there were Buddhists, Friday pagans, Saturday atheists, and Sunday Muslims, etc. As syncretics, that is how several people felt. It was a problem for a lot of people in a lot of DIRS, Many of them got changed to blue, which means we talk just that faith,

but what about the people like me who were 15 years a practicing Buddhist then for the last 16 years a Vaisnava , ....and no I will not say that I converted , ......it is not so Black and White as that !!!

I just found that there was a concurrent truth , .... so what am I to do , .... never mention 15 years worth of experience , ... just forget it ....all the beautifull knowledge gained , ... just forget it , wipe it out , .. you must declare that you are Hindu or you cant post here !!!

How I hate this narrow mindedness , ....and in ways it hurts , ...just cut out your love for the the system that gave you every blessing of knowledge that you posess ,.....No it is not possible !

and what about the Nepalese who practice both as they live side by side , ... is this tollerance and respect not Beautifull , ...?

and what about the Thai Buddhists whos jatakas are full of the accounts of Hindu gods , .... ?

What is it in human beings that has to compartmentalise everything ? ..

can a scientist and a doctor not understand the same truth through their different trainings ?

but respectful questions are tolerated.

It's just that this is the Hindu house on this forum. That was the point. There are better places to make points about non-Hindu religions.

But for now, clearly the OP topic has run it's course.

so what does this mean , ....lets shut it down ! .... why does it frighten a Hindu to learn that Buddhists worship Ganapati as the remover of obsticals , it is just that he is given a different name ?

we should be happy to know these things , we should be joyfull that others share and seek the same blessings .

so where do I belong ???

please everyone where does any one like me who has had the Benifit of both Hindu and Buddhist training belong ???

 

[Aupmanyav]

I would like to think people are mostly concerned about Jņāna Kanda and Mukti and of saving all sentient beings from Samsara and accomplishing their Bodhisattva or just ordinary humanist vows...and for this reason choosing to practice a Religion as a means to perfection of their love, compassion and wisdom....

All people will not get Moksha, Enlightenment, or become Bodhisattvas or Buddhas. Their education, upbringing, experiences differ. And it does not really matter, they are still none other than a form of Brahman. After the existence of their current form is over what they are constituted of (Brahman) will take other forms. That is the cycle. Understanding about love, compassion and wisdom is good if it comes, but for some (evangelists and caliphs, dictators and fundamentalists), it does not happen. That is what the world is. However, nothing lasts for ever in this ephemeral world.

Not every one is a Ratiben. Ratiben, you are a nice Homo sapiens sapiens.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Aupmanyav,

I see you want an opinion about atheism....
1. Of course - there may be variations - what exactly do you mean with "Atheism" ..... in a wider sense - we can also argue - that for a Realized One there is 'No Theism, no Atheism..'
2. - But my general point would be - we should examine if Atheism is the shortest path to the Goal or not.....And analyze the consequences of preaching the Atheism to general folks .....
Considering those points - I wouldn't recommend Atheism (exceptions may be for Buddhism and Jain .... but still I have not good feeling about modern Western strictly atheistic Buddhists....) for general folks (and it means for me myself too)....although I can recommend a number of religious traditions with fruitful results.....

I do not require any explanation. I have completed my search and have attained 'nirvana'. For me, it is acceptance of physical energy as the source of all which exists, but physical energy is not a God or Goddess. Although I limit my view to myself and respect the views of others who believe in deities (including the whole of my family ). That is what floats their boat.That is what Hinduism has taught me. I am no preacher. When required, I state my views, and that is all to it. I am not a atheism evangelist. One boot does not fit all.

 

[Vinayaka]

yes I had to live through it , and why I didnt leave at that point I dont know !!!

Ratikala, as did many 'on the other side' like me, and I know many from all angles did stop. I left for about 6 weeks. I come to discuss Hinduism, and it seemed so odd to be always discussing something else. Buddhism is at least a cousin, and I have great respect for it. But also, a lot of this boils down to being about tone. In Real life, or here, when a person sense a condescending tone, (sometimes incorrectly) generally things go downhill from there. After all, we don't really know each other very well at all.

But I feel it's all good now. The collective karma is relatively smooth.

 

[Maya3]

I honestly have a little mixed feelings about this.
I don´t think there is anything wrong at all with embracing different things from different religions. In fact I think it is one of Hinduisms strengths that we are able to be open to this and not get uncomfortable. We are not threatened with other beliefs because we are confident with our own.

On the other hand, I agree with Vinayaka that we get a lot of people here that are in a Hindu phase, often they confuse it with Buddhism. They often think it is all cool to meditate and they like reincarnation, but that is about it, so they call themselves Hindu for a while, and then they move on and try something else.
Nothing wrong with that, but if we want to have a forum where Hindus can represent Hindusim and answer questions about it, then it is good if people here know what they are talking about.

Maya

 

[Asha]

Hare Krishna Prabhu ji

I'm really not sure how it came to be, but may people think that Hindu Gods are some sort of symbols for something else. Even some Hindus think this. "Oh, they're just symbolic." Of what, I ask.

To me Hindu Gods are real, the Deities of my tradition,the deities of your tradition and other traditions they are all real.
I dont think I have ever met a person except outside of Hinduism that thinks that Gods arnt real?

Each God or Deity is the absolute essence of a principle or a quality they are the embodiment of that quality. We only try to live up to their qualities, we pray for their qualities, and for their blessings.

Do some people think this is just symbolic?
That we pray to the Ideal of perfection in some way?

Hinduism, especially in the mystic and bhakti schools, is full of magic.

I would not even call it magic, it is only mysterious to us because of our ignorance.

Energy that whirs, uplifts, whirls, and scintillates. Gods whose presence can absolutely be felt, as when a charismatic person walks into a room, or a strong scent enters.So any ideas where this idea that it's all 'merely symbolic' came from?

Maybe this is the problem that some face, to feel the presence of the Deities one must have an attitude of surrender, maybe those that dont feel anything when they take darshan of the Deities just assume that the deities are only symbolic because they themselves do not feel any presence?

To know and to understand the divine forms one must have willingness in the heart, otherwise the see only the wood, metal or stone in which the Deity resides.

Jai Shree Krishna

Asha

 

[ronki23]

As a Hindu (with influences from Christianity, Buddhism and Sikhism), I would like to know how Hinduism has endured into the 21st century?

Because if we look at the century surge in atheism and Islam (both no-God and a formless one God), both are fast growing and dismiss God in general/ images of God because we cannot see our Gods or prove he exists.

How has Hinduism survived criticism and ridicule?

I personally believe that God is formless but at the same time can take whichever form he chooses. I guess you could say i'm more an agnostic Hindu.

I believe that Rama, Krishna, Durga,Jesus, Gautama Buddha, Shirdi Sai Baba and the Sikh Gurus were enlightened beings taught to teach us how to live our lives and respect one another.

 

[Aupmanyav]

By being flexible .. rebounds .. like a palm tree in a storm .. where a pole is uprooted. I could say, strong at the roots.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I can't understand why a million or more people daily would go to a shrine like Tirupati just to see a symbol of their religion.

Vinayaka, symbols also are important, for example, the statue of Liberty in US. For us, Hindus in India, Bharat Mata, or the Safron (more correctly, the Bhagwa) flag. For me, personally, the Samadhi Sthala of Adi Sankaracharya at Kedarnath.