outrage with islam

[crimsonlung]

At this point the debate will devolve into the meaning of given Arabic words. One still has to wonder why so many devout Muslims would willfully misinterpret the verse. I'm guessing that Crimsonlung will have a rather entertaining explanation.


Oh... and CrimsonLung... I do not generally Google results or rely much on Wikipedia to make slap-dash posts. It's just not my style.
The site I got the quotes from is: Compared Translations of the meaning of the Quran
and I have been a return visitor to the site for well over a year. I highly recommend it.

The bible has been misinterpreted for YEARS, when you translate any language to English, it becomes butchered, especially with Arabic, and even more with Asian languages. There are many similar arguments in the Torah, the Bible, and the bhagavad gita.

For example, in the bible, Paul was thought to embrace same sex relationships through a misinterpreted verse malakoi which was translated to Greek and English. There are hundreds more like this, the whole hand chopping thing is one of those.

What is equally puzzling is that devout Muslims in Saudi Arabia still take this quite literally. I would think they know how to speak Arabic.. but... evidently not, according to some.

Put it this way, you don't know Arabic, its a very primitive language and has not improved much since its inception, one word can have different meanings. If I were to tell you I was going to cut you in English, that could mean with a butter knife, or it can mean with a samurai sword.

 

[crimsonlung]

I don't think you've read it. It's actually quite warlike.

What have you to back it up? If your looking at a book (or anything for that matter) with a biased opinion, you can make it look however you want.

Look at Exodus 32 in the Bible, you will see that the justifications of war are very similar to the Korans.

 

[Sahar]

How does it nullify my argument? You are showing me English translations, and I gave you sources to the truth. My family is Muslim and I have talked to many Sheiks about this both in the Middle East and in the States, whats your credibility? Copy and paste off Google?

And there are Muslims here including myself who speaks and read Arabic day and night...what makes you any credible?

 

[crimsonlung]

And there are Muslims here including myself who speaks and read Arabic day and night...what makes you any credible?

I read Arabic and can write a little, but my father volunteers at the Mosque and I speak to many Sheiks about these arguments.

 

[Autodidact]

Can you show that the laws under which this woman would be put to death are derived from scripture or religious tradition, rather than from other elements of the local culture? The reason I wonder about this is because it seems you can find people who want to kill those who disagree with their favorite beliefs anywhere in the world. It's easy to see it as a human tendency, rather than as the product of any specific religion.

My hunch is the intolerance is already there but the religion acts in this instance to fan the flames of intolerance. But that's just my guess.

The crime is blasphemy. It's a religious crime. No religion--no crime. Also, Islam IS the culture. It's not like being Presbyterian as opposed to Episcopalian. Islam is a way of life, including government, culture and religion, and this is an excellent illustration of why that is a bad thing.

 

[Autodidact]

What is the gain for a non Muslim to deliberately twist the Qur'an like this? To pretend that you defend Islam and make it look better? Islam doesn't need you to do this. And most importantly, making Islam look better is not going to be by lies and twisting...
The last thing; the non Muslim understanding of the Qur'an and Islam is completely irrelevant.

Exactly. The non-Muslim understanding is simply irrelevant. What matters is the Muslim interpretation, which is the one that gets people killed for having the nerve to not be Muslim and express their opinion.

btw, who do you think is twisting the qur'an, and in what way?

 

[Autodidact]

How does it nullify my argument? You are showing me English translations, and I gave you sources to the truth. My family is Muslim and I have talked to many Sheiks about this both in the Middle East and in the States, whats your credibility? Copy and paste off Google?

His authority is the decades of scholarship represented by the nine different authoritative translations by leading Muslim scholars that he provided to you.

 

[Autodidact]

Excuse me but, are u a muslim ????

What do you think the proper translation of this passage is, aymen? (The one about hands and theft.)

 

[Autodidact]

What have you to back it up? If your looking at a book (or anything for that matter) with a biased opinion, you can make it look however you want.

Look at Exodus 32 in the Bible, you will see that the justifications of war are very similar to the Korans.

Yes, the Bible is quite violent too. My assertion is that the qur'an contains many violent passages. If you disagree, I can cite a few of them. It has nothing to do with me; it's simply a matter of fact.

Of course, if you translate "cut" to mean "paint," and "kill" to mean "use an unpleasant tone of voice," you're going to get a different result. Not speaking Arabic myself, I rely on scholars who do, and who are recognized as experts in this area.

 

[Sahar]

I read Arabic and can write a little, but my father volunteers at the Mosque and I speak to many Sheiks about these arguments.

And? :sarcastic Does this make you the great linguistics scholar? Or the great Tafseer scholar?
The Ayah is clear, any argument about it constitute nothing but ignorance or dishonesty. If it's ignorance then people should be grateful for being corrected. But insisting on their ignorance is arrogance and dishonesty.

 

[Autodidact]

And? :sarcastic Does this make you the great linguistics scholar? Or the great Tafseer scholar?
The Ayah is clear, any argument about it constitute nothing but ignorance or dishonesty. If it's ignorance then people should be grateful for being corrected. But insisting on their ignorance is arrogance and dishonesty.

What do you think of this Pakistani blasphemy law?

 

[ellenjanuary]

What is the gain for a non Muslim to deliberately twist the Qur'an like this? To pretend that you defend Islam and make it look better? Islam doesn't need you to do this. And most importantly, making Islam look better is not going to be by lies and twisting...
The last thing; the non Muslim understanding of the Qur'an and Islam is completely irrelevant.

It may seem irrelevant, but it will take non-Muslim understanding of Islam and the Koran for a lasting peace between cultures.

 

[.lava]

What is the gain for a non Muslim to deliberately twist the Qur'an like this? To pretend that you defend Islam and make it look better? Islam doesn't need you to do this. And most importantly, making Islam look better is not going to be by lies and twisting...
The last thing; the non Muslim understanding of the Qur'an and Islam is completely irrelevant.

:clap

except for 'deliberately' part. IMO that's not the issue here


.

 

[Sahar]

It may seem irrelevant, but it will take non-Muslim understanding of Islam and the Koran for a lasting peace between cultures.

Sorry, I am not following you...

 

[A-ManESL]

Sorry, I am not following you...

I think what he meant to say is that unless non-Muslims understand the Quran and Islam the "conflict" between the Western culture and Islamic culture cannot be resolved.

I hope this is correct ellenjanuary.

 

[ellenjanuary]

,

Sorry, I am not following you...

I agree with you in the relative sense. Arabic is your language, the Qu'ran is your culture; but in my relative sense, I'm a non-Muslim, English-speaking American in the fabulously wealthy city of Phoenix. Things are definitely different here. I don't personally know any Muslims; I know all kinds of Christians. I've argued with them about Islam, introduced a few to the Koran, and take the stand that Islam is not the "monster" portrayed by the popular media.

Admittedly, my knowledge is limited without an in-depth understanding of Arabic; but I can still voice an opinion on the things I do understand.

 

[ellenjanuary]

I think what he meant to say is that unless non-Muslims understand the Quran and Islam the "conflict" between the Western culture and Islamic culture cannot be resolved.

I hope this is correct ellenjanuary.

Yes. Thank you.

 

[outhouse]

and take the stand that Islam is not the "monster" portrayed by the popular media.

I agree, and this topic alone with the above statement could on for ever.

BUT

just what would you call murdering a mother of 5 because shes 1 of 2 christians family's in a village full of muslims. ??? how copuld you not make it out to be a monster???

 

[outhouse]

I think what he meant to say is that unless non-Muslims understand the Quran and Islam the "conflict" between the Western culture and Islamic culture cannot be resolved.

is this the most sad thing in the whole world

2 men of different culture cannot sit down to discus topics to end conflicts without the other person doing homework to please the other party.

does anyone else see the circular thinking and insanity with this? [this is not directed at you a-man just at the statement at hand]

 

[ellenjanuary]

I agree, and this topic alone with the above statement could on for ever.

BUT

just what would you call murdering a mother of 5 because shes 1 of 2 christians family's in a village full of muslims. ??? how copuld you not make it out to be a monster???

Sensationalism. That's why I avoid the news. If I want to get my morals in an outrage, all I have to do is take a stroll down the south side. Worse things happen every day.