Overturning Roe V Wade

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Sometimes. But there is no sign of a solution right now and the proposed solution will only make it worse. I would suggest studying how European countries with very liberal abortion laws but very low abortion rates solved their problems.

One part of the answer may be more sites like Planned Parenthood. PP does much more than abortions. They offer free or very low cost family planning including birth control in a non-judgemental environment. Something one cannot get at Christian sites. Having a PP site close byhas been shown to reduce abortion rates.

I was not talking about abortion rates.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I was not talking about abortion rates.

Sorry, I lost track.

Okay, I am trying to think of a proper solution to the problem of men not having a voice in abortion and yet still possibly being charged for the results of not getting one. How would you fix that problem?

 

[Trailblazer]

I think there are too many unwanted, starving and neglected children in this world as it is. And that's without forcing people to carry pregnancy's to term against their will.

The fact that there are many unwanted, starving and neglected children in this world is a red herring and a rationalization for abortion.
Who is forcing anyone to carry the pregnancy to term? All, that might happen is that easy access to abortion will no longer be the norm.

I think the only relevant thing here is can we force people to bring pregnancies to term without their consent? Can we use peoples' bodies as incubators against their will?
I say no.

Nobody is forcing women to bring pregnancies to term without their consent.
Nobody impregnated the woman against her will in order to use her body for an incubator.
Nobody forced a woman to have sex, unless the sex resulted from rape or incest and that is only 2% or abortions.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Who is forcing anyone to carry the pregnancy to term? Al, that might happen is that easy access to abortion will no longer be the norm.

Nobody is forcing women to bring pregnancies to term without their consent.
Nobody impregnated the woman against her will in order to use her body for an incubator.
Nobody forced a woman to have sex, unless the sex resulted from rape or incest and that is only 2% or abortions.

When abortions are not readily available one is forcing some women to carry pregnancies to term. The wealthy will be able to travel out of state to get an abortion. The poor will not be able to. You appear to be supporting forcing poor women to have babies against their will.

 

[Trailblazer]

I have no knowledge of the existence of souls. I don't think anybody else does either.

That is irrelevant to the abortion debate because a human life is a life regardless of whether it has a soul.

I find these kinds of questions to be kind of weird. Like, we can't tell the different between a blastocyst or a zygote compared to a fully developed, fully grown, conscious, thinking human being with an actual life, social connections, etc.?

I think the difference is rather obvious.

Of course there is a difference, but the point is that a zygote if allowed to develop and be born becomes a a fully developed, fully grown, conscious, thinking human being, and this is the pertinent point when it comes to the abortion debate.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, it should be her choice and no one else's then.

I don't disagree with that, as long as she is of age to me making that choice.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That is irrelevant to the abortion debate because a human life is a life regardless of whether it has a soul.

Of course there is a difference, but the point is that a zygote if allowed to develop and be born becomes a a fully developed, fully grown, conscious, thinking human being, and this is the pertinent point when it comes to the abortion debate.

That is not even a fact.

 

[Trailblazer]

When abortions are not readily available one is forcing some women to carry pregnancies to term. The wealthy will be able to travel out of state to get an abortion. The poor will not be able to. You appear to be supporting forcing poor women to have babies against their will.

If you flip that around you might ask why abortions should be so readily available, like getting a dentist appointment, just because they have been for 50 years? Maybe it is time to rethink what everyone thought was settled.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Sorry, I lost track.

Okay, I am trying to think of a proper solution to the problem of men not having a voice in abortion and yet still possibly being charged for the results of not getting one. How would you fix that problem?

I am not advocating for men to have a voice in an abortion. It was a comment that a woman can decide not to have a child and that is ok, when a man decides not to take care of their child he is a dead beat. Where is the choice for the father? What if the father has hardships and cannot take care of the kid. Shouldn't he have that choice if the mother does? I am not advocating for this but it seems that if you advocate for abortion you should be consistent and advocate for the father to choose to not take care of the child without repercussions for the same reasons.

 

[Trailblazer]

That is not even a fact.

Why is it not a fact?

 

[Subduction Zone]

If you flip that around you might ask why abortions should be so readily available, like getting a dentist appointment, just because they have been for 50 years? Maybe it is time to rethink what everyone thought was settled.

That does not appear to make any sense. Why shouldn't basic health care be readily available/ I am confused.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Why is it not a fact?

Because of spontaneous abortion and some babies never become a fully developed, fully grown, conscious, thinking human being even if born. If you want to bring science into it, learn the facts.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am not advocating for men to have a voice in an abortion. It was a comment that a woman can decide not to have a child and that is ok, when a man decides not to take care of their child he is a dead beat. Where is the choice for the father? What if the father has hardships and cannot take care of the kid. Shouldn't he have that choice if the mother does? I am not advocating for this but it seems that if you advocate for abortion you should be consistent and advocate for the father to choose to not take care of the child without repercussions for the same reasons.

In a court of law they will try to he fair in deciding who pays what. But it is a bit contradictory to be against a man being forced into paying child support and being antiabortion. By having sex with a woman the man has given his consent by your standards. He is on the hook for eighteen plus years.

 

[Trailblazer]

That does not appear to make any sense. Why shouldn't basic health care be readily available/ I am confused.

I do not consider abortion to be basic health care unless there is a medical reason to perform it.
How is it 'health care' if the woman's health is not at any risk?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I do not consider abortion to be basic health care unless there is a medical reason to perform it.
How is it 'health care' if the woman's health is not at any risk?

Because the mental is a part of it. At least in Denmark.

 

[Trailblazer]

Because of spontaneous abortion and some babies never become a fully developed, fully grown, conscious, thinking human being even if born. If you want to bring science into it, learn the facts.

It is a red herring whenever you compare spontaneous abortions to elective abortions.
Spontaneous abortions are not a choice and they are completely outside of one's control whereas elective abortions are a choice that is made within the woman's control.

 

[fantome profane]

unless the sex resulted from rape or incest and that is only 2% or abortions.

Source?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It is a red herring whenever you compare spontaneous abortions to elective abortions.
Spontaneous abortions are not a choice and they are completely outside of one's control whereas elective abortions are a choice that is made within the woman's control.

Says you. I choose differently and thus I believe differently. I just do like you.

 

[Trailblazer]

Because the mental is a part of it. At least in Denmark.

How is not wanting a baby a mental problem? The woman might have a mental problem but that is certainly not true in most cases.

Why can't people just be honest about this? Most women who get abortions just do not want to carry the baby to term because it is inconvenient and it is much easier to get an abortion.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

How is not wanting a baby a mental problem? The woman might have a mental problem but that is certainly not true in most cases.

Why can't people just be honest about this? Most women who get abortions just do not want to carry the baby to term because it is inconvenient and it is much easier to get an abortion.

Because it is not your problem or mine in my belief system.