Palestianian atheist arrested

[Meow Mix]

What happened to the guy arrested for being an Aetheist?

His family and society disowned him and his life as he knew it is now ruined and he faces a potentially lifelong sentence in prison for merely expressing his opinion.

What a nice world, huh?

 

[Zardoz]

...to dream of world domination, unless ofcorse a better idea is that they join the Jews

I think you should go on my ignore list now... bai

 

[SaintMalachi]

His family and society disowned him and his life as he knew it is now ruined and he faces a potentially lifelong sentence in prison for merely expressing his opinion.

What a nice world, huh?

Wow this world sucks.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Name one example when muslims have invaded any of these countries to impose their ideas.

Several examples are mentioned by others below, but I would like to make a different point. If you are referring Muslim countries invading Western countries and imposing their ideas, then the reason for this not happening, at least in modern times, is because of the reason mentioned earlier. If they attempted anything of the kind they would be bombed back to the Stone Ages within a week. They do not pose a credible military threat to any Western country as the matter stands today, nor are they likely to become one in the foreseeable future.

That doesn't mean they don't want to, as history teaches us.

And as it happens, we are naturally gifted with plenty of natural resources. Thats another debate as to how do all the resources end up in Us, Eu and anywhere else except the needy muslim countries.

Because these Muslim countries like our toys and they despise science and knowledge so they can't make them for themselves.
So we trade last seasons jet fighters and tanks for oil and make the local dictators feel powerful, which, compared to their neighbours I'm sure they are, at least until we sell the same scrapheaps to the neighbouring dictator.

Not at all, its you and all those who sided with your thinking voicing that 'there should be no islamic countries' who believe that.

Well, considering the violent protests, threats and vacuous statements of "politicians" such as Ahmadinejad, this idea seems prevalent within the Muslim countries as well.

Now unless you use an atomic bomb or impose a colossal war to get to that wishful aim, is another thing, i only said that, by the number of the muslim population, its a very far fetched idea that a minority athiestic secular believing authority will find easy acceptance on the muslim lands without any significant resistance, even if they used soft tempting , showers of economic aids.

Actually most of these "minority athiestic secular believing authorities" couldn't give two tosses about what these Muslim countries believe as long as they behave and keep the oil pumping.
I, on the other hand, do care about people's right to free speech and personal liberty and I do care about the truth a great deal.

This is what is actually happening right NOW, that most muslim govts. are allies with the Us and Europe owing to the minimal economic aid they get out of them apart from the protection they enjoy by the big powers in support of their rule. The major chunk of the aid unfortunately being usurped entirely at the top corrupt level, having no impact on the actual economy.

Agreed. So I guess these Muslim governments aren't all that divine then?

Whats the next paln? People are already fed up of the corruption and insensitivity of the corrupt elitist govt. i don't think all the drama is lasting any long. And then there's unjustified crackdown on some muslims lands all over the world, how long do you think the power show by the violent oppressors is going to last?

Until they fall in line I suppose. I'm not a fan of the use of violence and quite frankly I think convincing "normal" people like me and others that you are, in fact, not a threat, is your best bet for a place in the modern world. Because right now there is a growing dissent towards Muslims in Europe and the US in general, which, by the way, I do not agree with, but which is the result of things like the reactions displayed after the Muhammad cartoons.
Not a wise move my friend. Not a wise move.

Who's denying the comparison to the economic hit europe and Us right now?

Norway has noticed the economic "crisis" not at all.
Just throwing that out there.

lets assume Us is the most prosperous country in the world, its govt. with a very productive, profitable economy.

That assumption would be dead wrong.
By Norwegian standards some of the systems put in place in the US is little better than what one would expect from a third world country.

You do know however how deeply indebted the US govt is. The gross debt amounting to 1.9 trillion dollars, increasing every year. Who suffers then? the people who are heavily taxed for the magnanimous expenditures incurred in wars, defense systems, funding of NASA, security agencies, and etc.

I'm well aware of that and I don't think anyone here has held up the US as an example of economic excellence.

On the other hand, there are several very good measures running in the system which are very much in line with the Islamic systme, i.e the social security system, but in Islam that goes without exorbitant taxes.

Really? Do you have any examples of this?

And now coming to Afghanistan, it has no economy, do i need to list the reasons? But i do need to point out, that the system incorporated in the entire west , although has several merits, but is Not what we look forward to, If we lift up our economy.

*Shrug* Nothing would please me more than to see Afghanistan develop into a well functioning modern society, but it seems they need to get rid of some really unproductive ideas about their religion first to make that happen. Really, no school for girls? Come on!

The islamic system basically empowers the public so much, that the greedy, power drunk elites forming the govts. of the muslim countries at this point are not in favour of it.

Saudi Arabia?

The Islamic Caliphates centuries ago, were fine examples of it, where the head of the state was probably the poorest man in the state, inspite of being highly learned and highly capable of running a system. Can any other nation mirror that? I don't think so.

I dunno about the poverty thingie, but highly learned and capable? Most definitely. The Norwegian Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg was the highest graduate in history from BI (one of Norway's foremost institutions of economic studies) and he seems to be doing a pretty good job at it so far. Also, in Norway anyone can start their own political party if they want to and they will receive economic support to do political work based on how many members they have.
I don't see poverty as something inherently merit worthy though.

The scale of success, justice and prosperity are entirely different for the muslims, heads of the state in this day, enforce their impression through show of money, army, weapon and defence systems. The epitome of an Islamic system, is the prosperity of people and the prevalence of justice in the society. That is not currently being followed since sharia is not being followed anywhere at the moment, and there is a lot of injustice in the muslim world at public level.

So you are admitting that the Muslim countries are messed up?
Interesting.
Now, why don't they look to the more functioning countries in the world for inspiration rather than in that holly book of theirs?

Ahh what a peaceful quiet protest, i thought you had nothing against freedom of speech! but really, this is just a scare tactic, with strong disapproval from the muslim side in the same article,

Freedom of speech, yes. Inciting violence, no.
And as for scare tactics...well, it has served to make Muslims less trusted and less liked in Europe. So if that was their goal, they sure achieved it.

Would love that, lets just time it in heaven some place, while having tea with God at my side, I and God would have a lot of time at our hands to see how you prove against the creation while you are down there in, err a different place. I'm serious, If you promise to stick to your explanation and prove it to me in the afterlife, i'm up for it. I doubt though at that time you will even remember what evolution is. , oh but i guess darwin will be around there to help you figure.

I assure you that if I'm wrong and there really is a god, him and me are going to have WORDS! Seriously, how incompetent can a god be and still keep his union card...

Lol, there's nothing much to fear from athiests, harmless people, who firmly believe in the right of offensive speech, no threat from them, they have sufficient self limiting threats within themselves, homosexuality for instance

Wow... so much ignorance stuffed into a single sentence...

 

[Bismillah]

So... you don't disagree with the claim that Muhammad had sex with his nine-year-old wife. While you apparently don't consider this to be rape, can you acknowledge that someone else, as an honest opinion, might think that it was?

9/10s Penguin, I do disagree with the claim, but I do not consider the age status to be a determining factor. At all.

Maybe they can see it as rape. Sure, I just view that oppinion as uniformed and simply rejecting what even Academia supports.

 

[YmirGF]

9/10s Penguin, I do disagree with the claim, but I do not consider the age status to be a determining factor. At all.

Maybe they can see it as rape. Sure, I just view that oppinion as uniformed and simply rejecting what even Academia.

So.... it's only rape if it is not committed by a "prophet" of god?

 

[Meow Mix]

9/10s Penguin, I do disagree with the claim, but I do not consider the age status to be a determining factor. At all.

Maybe they can see it as rape. Sure, I just view that oppinion as uniformed and simply rejecting what even Academia.

What grade would a 9 year old be in with today's society? 3rd or 4th?

I can't imagine things being SO massively different a thousand years ago that an (at most) 4th grader would truly have the maturity to make adult decisions like marriage and sex.

Yes, I would call copulating with a 9 year old rape regardless of time frame or societal norms, and I don't feel that's "uninformed."

 

[Bismillah]

So.... it's only rape if it is not committed by a "prophet" of god?

As long as this, or any other individual, lived in a society of centuries past yes it is illogical to refer to it as rape.

 

[Bismillah]

I can't imagine things being SO massively different a thousand years ago that an (at most) 4th grader would truly have the maturity to make adult decisions like marriage and sex.

Except for the fact that it was common occurrence of these individuals to start families at this age. In short, society bred them, prepared them, and informed them of their duties and responsibilities. They were bought up in this system and were fully capable of choosing their own decisions. I will never cease to be amazed how comparing these people with fourth graders of today's society is logical.

I know fellow students who certainly don't befit the title of "adult" in their twenties. Our society is not comparable at all with that of those past.

 

[jarofthoughts]

I know fellow students who certainly don't befit the title of "adult" in their twenties. Our society is not comparable at all with that of those past.

But that also means that the moral tenets of societies past are no longer applicable and needs to be re-evaluated.
How do the Muslim societies deal with that little problem?

 

[Bismillah]

But that also means that the moral tenets of societies past are no longer applicable and needs to be re-evaluated.

I didn't know kindness and charity were limited to only a certain time period. Interesting.

 

[Meow Mix]

Except for the fact that it was common occurrence of these individuals to start families at this age. In short, society bred them, prepared them, and informed them of their duties and responsibilities. They were bought up in this system and were fully capable of choosing their own decisions. I will never cease to be amazed how comparing these people with fourth graders of today's society is logical.

I know fellow students who certainly don't befit the title of "adult" in their twenties. Our society is not comparable at all with that of those past.

Don't want to really make an appeal to emotions but I can't help myself.

9 year old girls:

I don't see any time frame -- not even 1,000 years ago -- in which these girls would be mature enough to make a decision about the rest of their life (such as marriage) and certainly not mature enough to make a decision about sex. There is no culture in the world that can transform a girl this young into a mature woman capable of such decisions. It's absolutely crazy to me to suggest otherwise.

I do understand that girls had more responsibility at sooner ages than in today's world, but there is a FAR cry from 20 something to NINE years old. It's not even comparable. I can't fathom how anyone could even attempt to defend it. Yes, I would call having sex with any of these girls (even 1,000 years ago) rape without question and I don't think it's unreasonable or "libelous/slanderous" to suggest that anyone that would is guilty of rape.

 

[Bismillah]

Interesting that your pictures are all irrevocably examples of middle income children from the West. I'm sorry but the point you are trying to make is lost on me.

It is a fact that individuals commonly did start families at this age. This is what it is. They were raised and prepared for that fact. Stating that you can't imagine a nine year old raising a family is not surprising and really just pointless. Our society doesn't raise individuals in that manner and so you cannot imagine such an example to exist. It is not my problem if you cannot see past your own cultural bias, but the fact is people were ready to make their own life choices at this age.

Especially considering that the life expectancy was around thirty five years old in that time.

 

[Meow Mix]

Interesting that your pictures are all irrevocably examples of middle income children from the West. I'm sorry but the point you are trying to make is lost on me.

It is a fact that individuals commonly did start families at this age. This is what it is. They were raised and prepared for that fact. Stating that you can't imagine a nine year old raising a family is not surprising and really just pointless. Our society doesn't raise individuals in that manner and so you cannot imagine such an example to exist. It is not my problem if you cannot see past your own cultural bias, but the fact is people were ready to make their own life choices at this age.

Especially considering that the life expectancy was around thirty five years old in that time.

Would you say I'm commiting slander or libel for obtusely believing -- with a very strong conviction -- that even a person 1,000 years ago across the globe from me having sex with a 9 year old constitutes rape? As far as I know, people earlier were suggesting that it is indeed libelous. Should I be convicted?

 

[Autodidact]

9/10s Penguin, I do disagree with the claim, but I do not consider the age status to be a determining factor. At all.

Maybe they can see it as rape. Sure, I just view that oppinion as uniformed and simply rejecting what even Academia supports.

You would not use the word "rape" to describe a man who has sex with a 9-year old girl, and you don't think her age is relevant? What do you call it?

 

[Autodidact]

As long as this, or any other individual, lived in a society of centuries past yes it is illogical to refer to it as rape.

Why, little girls were somehow different in the past?

 

[Autodidact]

Except for the fact that it was common occurrence of these individuals to start families at this age. In short, society bred them, prepared them, and informed them of their duties and responsibilities. They were bought up in this system and were fully capable of choosing their own decisions. I will never cease to be amazed how comparing these people with fourth graders of today's society is logical.

I know fellow students who certainly don't befit the title of "adult" in their twenties. Our society is not comparable at all with that of those past.

Your claim is that in the 7th century it was common for 9-year old girls to get pregnant? And you think that's O.K.? Was time somehow compressed then? What evidence do you have for this odd claim?

 

[Autodidact]

I didn't know kindness and charity were limited to only a certain time period. Interesting.

I didn't know not raping little girls is limited only to a certain time period. Interesting.

 

[jarofthoughts]

I didn't know kindness and charity were limited to only a certain time period. Interesting.

No, but Muhammad is by many Muslims considered to be a "perfect person" who is wholly moral and an example to be followed, and apparently he thought having sex with 9 year olds was a-ok, something that is used by some Muslims to justify child brides and the like.

In other words, do you not think that the tenets, moral or otherwise, that can be found in the Quran might need a bit of a re-evaluation in light of the more than 1000 years that have passed?

 

[Bismillah]

Would you say I'm commiting slander or libel for obtusely believing -- with a very strong conviction -- that even a person 1,000 years ago across the globe from me having sex with a 9 year old constitutes rape? As far as I know, people earlier were suggesting that it is indeed libelous. Should I be convicted?

And why is it rape? Because they don't know what they are commuting to? This is false, history and common sense contradicts it. If someone stubbornly believes in a statement regardless of accuracy, then it is still libel.