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palestine is for Jews or arabs ?
- Thread starter Agnostisch
- Start date
ok give us the credibal translate "hebrew/english " but in condition that everyone could translate the hebrew words by google translator or other translator .
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
Yes you do.
If you dont know what antisemitism is educate yourself about the term, when it was invented and when its used. Then you return to the conversation.
Yeah if you ignore everything else Levite wrote thats true.
Iam going to find an article on the internet about Islam and hate. Then i will ignore all words except Islam and hate. Therefore i conclude that Islam means hate.
Genius!
Yeah cant be that the Babylonian Talmud is just damn huge. Cant be. Those jews are up to something.
And oh god the Jerusalem Talmud has never been completely translated into english. Arrrrrr those jews!!!!
Stop using online translators. For gods sake who still does it? Is this 10 years ago?
Respectfully, Godobeyer, if these were Qur'anic verses, we'd be screaming mistranslation and that they are taken out of context. We rely on scholarly translations, not online translations...let's pay the same respect to our People of the Book (and any other religion, for that matter).
Please, let's not do to others what we wouldn't want others to do to us.
Please, let's not do to others what we wouldn't want others to do to us.
no problem SsainhuRespectfully, Godobeyer, if these were Qur'anic verses, we'd be screaming mistranslation and that they are taken out of context. We rely on scholarly translations, not online translations...let's pay the same respect to our People of the Book (and any other religion, for that matter).
Please, let's not do to others what we wouldn't want others to do to us.
if they were a fake references , i am apologise to them about that .
but i want to discuss them from their references , to know the truth about all these weird verse of Talmud .
that why i ask for the credibal ones.
No you do
antisemitism is hate the jews and arabs or just the jews ?
I am not tell that He is not true , i said it's the same meaningYeah if you ignore everything else Levite wrote thats true.
yeah , you can find islam and hate , islam and tomatos ....etc
huge enough to be impossible to be translated ?
realy ?!!
why the jews did not completely translate until now ?
I will use hebrew english dictionnary ok ?
like this one
???
Levite
Higher and Higher
First of all, it is not my responsibility to correct misrepresentations of Jewish text. It is the responsibility of those who would cite and discuss Jewish text to obtain correct translations and proper context when doing so. And I do not have the time to go through a long list of poorly translated and decontextualized fragments, find the original sources, and render them properly: it would take many hours. That is part of the reason why people are supposed to rely on quality scholarship, and not depend on random Internet sites for correct textual presentation-- there is too much questionable material clogging up the internet, and not enough reliable scholarship freely available, and it inevitably seems to mislead the unwary.
There is a reason that there are not widely available online translations of Talmud and other Jewish texts: they are complex and nuanced and difficult, as well as extremely lengthy, and few translations even exist at all, let alone translations that are consistently of good quality. When people really want to learn these texts, they learn to read them in the original. This is called scholarship.
Second of all, online translators like Google translate are not only of unreliable quality, but they are programmed only for modern, colloquial Hebrew. Most Hebrew Jewish texts are written in a composite form of medieval Rabbinic Hebrew, liberally sprinkled with Aramaisms. And many Jewish texts, like the Talmud, are written in Aramaic, not Hebrew. To demand that all Jewish texts be understandable through Google translate is ridiculous: it vastly surpasses the abilities of Google translate, and vastly fails to comprehend the intricacy and the difficulty of the task, both linguistically and in terms of amount of material.
At some point, one simply has to develop the skills to either deal with primary texts oneself in the original, or to know where to find good secondary scholarship that deals with the primary texts. And just as I would presume that the best and most accurate scholarship concerning matters of Muslim sacred texts would come out of the Muslim world, I would hope that others would presume that the best and most accurate scholarship concerning matters of Jewish texts comes from the Jewish world, since that is, in fact, the case.
no problem Levite
but of course it's commun responsiblity.
because for me i am still doubt that maybe it's true , your explaination of that verse which contain : "not Adam" is close to "not human" .
of this verse : [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b[/FONT]
HONESLY you and Flankerlhttp://www.religiousforums.com/forum/members/flankerl-26105.html make me feel that, you prefer build a missile than translate or find a pure translation of these weird verses of Talmud :clap.
Accautly i don't know if you are good in hebrew or not , but if we suppose that the inverse , that you ask me a meaning of weird verse of Quran , i will translate it's for you word by word .
Levite
Higher and Higher
I have no control over what you believe. If you choose to believe that a fragmented translation on a highly questionable internet site is reliable, that is your prerogative. Just as it is also your prerogative to disbelieve the explanation given to you personally by a qualified Jewish scholar.
Believe me, I would love nothing better than to spend all my time translating Talmud and other Jewish text for those who are interested. But since doing so would occupy all my time, and no one is willing to pay me to do it, the task will, unfortunately, have to wait for someone to fund it. The problem is not that there is a lack of scholarship or ability to translate and comment on the material; the problem is a lack of time and other resources.
Maybe things are different in the Muslim world: perhaps there is enough funding and other resources that one need not be a speaker of Arabic, Farsi, or other Muslim languages; or a scholar in religious text, to find all the online translations and scholarship one could ever wish. But in the Jewish world, we don't have the money, even if we had the inclination. Which, to be fair, is not always there: we hope that Jews will learn Hebrew and Aramaic to read text in the original. And since we spend little, if any, time considering how to justify our texts to non-Jews, we presume that if they are interested, either they will learn Hebrew and Aramaic, or they will respect the scholarship of those who have done so.
I will keep that in mind. But I would also presume that if I asked someone presenting themselves as a professional scholar of Islamic texts, "Does this verse mean such-and-such a thing?" And that person answered "No, it doesn't, and this is why...," that I might feel inclined to believe them.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Given Godobeyer's distinct lack of credibility, I would not accept his translations, word for word, of anything.
No doubt, he finds the Protocols of the Elders of Zion to be authentic too.
godlikemadman
God Among Men
I'm proud of myself for knowing what this is because I have a test on Modern Rabbinic Judaism tomorrow and I just studied this
Rakhel
Well-Known Member
I did say some.
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
If your so interested in learning Talmud, why not go get a legit book and start reading?
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
Well to get back on topic, the answer to "Is Palestine for Jews or Arabs?" Id say for both. Why's it got to be one or the other?
Levite
Higher and Higher
Well said. Part of what was once Roman/Turkish/British Palestine contains a Jewish State. Other parts have been subsumed by surrounding Arab nations. There is no reason that some parts of the former whole cannot be another Arab state, with some Jewish residents; any more than Israel cannot be a Jewish state with some Muslim and Christian and Druze residents.
you were resident in other countries europe , usa ...etc , and in some Muslim countries
is that made a problems to other countries ? when you were some ?
this way of speech it's could be hateful with living with some Muslims and Christians and Druze , because you here you don't accept at least the some ? you don't accept the other live with you in the same land !!!. is this considerate racism or not ?
if this Jewish state are a democratic and justice and rights, should be democratic for all the residents or just for the jews ?
for my opinion that piece of land is not writen under it , jewish land or Muslim or Christain land . this earth is for all the human being , any one could live where every he want with all respect and love .
I always thought that it would have been much better if jews had been given a much larger amount of land in some sparsely populated country like canada or australia . Its not like theres a shortage of land in those countries.
It was obvious that settling them in israel would have incited violence and hatred.
I understand its their ancestral home, but the option above would have granted Jews their own country without hostile neighbours in every direction. Well, its too late now, but I think it would have been a much better choice.
. Its not like theres a shortage of land in those countries. It was obvious that settling them in israel would have incited violence and hatred.
I understand its their ancestral home, but the option above would have granted Jews their own country without hostile neighbours in every direction. Well, its too late now, but I think it would have been a much better choice.
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
if only we could find a jewish arab to solve this mess
Um, there are plenty and still