palestine is for Jews or arabs ?

[Caladan]

ok who was the king ?

Jeroboam
Nadab
Baasah
Elah
Zimri
Omri
Ahab
Ahaziah
Jehoram
Jehu
Jehoahaz
Jehoash
Jeroboam II
Zechariah
Shallum
Menahem
Pekahiah
Pekah
Hoshea

and two legendary kings of all Abrahamic religions of a united monarchy of Israel and Judah. maybe you have heard of them: David and Solomon.

as for the rest of your post, its nothing but cheap propaganda that not even Allah can redeem you from.

 

[Godobeyer]

Because the Jewish People are the descendants of the twelve sons of Israel: not the descendants of Moses. And since Abraham was the father of many nations, not only the Jewish people, we do not chiefly call ourselves by his name, although we revere him as our first ancestor.

By the time that the Quran was written, by the way, we had been calling ourselves am Yisra'el (the People Israel) and calling our land eretz Yisra'el (the Land of Israel) for well over a thousand years....

this is another proof that the jews are race not religion .
notice to this :
that why you considerate your self the farvorite people (or chosen people), on contrary we the muslims considerate by God as the farvorite religion , and if we practic/apply our religion as well (obey God and did good deeds) then we become the farvorite people.

 

[Kerr]

thanks for this info
that's mean caladran had two religions ?

No, it has nothing to do with his religious faith, or lack thereof. They where just examples of religions without deities (i.e. atheistic religions)

 

[Kerr]

this is another proof that the jews are race not religion .
notice to this :
that why you considerate your self the farvorite people (or chosen people), on contrary we the muslims considerate by God as the farvorite religion , and if we practic/apply our religion as well (obey God and did good deeds) then we become the farvorite people.

Are you sure race is the right word? Because I to my knowledge there is no such thing as a jewish race. Would culture not be a more precise word?

 

[Caladan]

No, it has nothing to do with his religious faith, or lack thereof. They where just examples of religions without deities (i.e. atheistic religions)

Its amazing how basic historical information such as the fact that the Jews are a historical nation can become so controversial to the indoctrinated mind. its almost as saying that a person who is not fundamentally religious has no worth. there have been many secular Jews in modern history, all of them have been part of a culturally Jewish experience.

 

[Godobeyer]

Jeroboam
Nadab
Baasah
Elah
Zimri
Omri
Ahab
Ahaziah
Jehoram
Jehu
Jehoahaz
Jehoash
Jeroboam II
Zechariah
Shallum
Menahem
Pekahiah
Pekah
Hoshea

and two legendary kings of all Abrahamic religions of a united monarchy of Israel and Judah. maybe you have heard of them: David and Solomon.

that's mean Israel was not a king

as for the rest of your post, its nothing but cheap propaganda that not even Allah can redeem you from.

you don't answser to my question (if you accept that or not ), notice that i always answser yours, but you avoid to answser just some of my !!! , how you explain this ?

 

[Caladan]

that's mean Israel was not a king

You are not making sense.

you don't answser to my question (if you accept that or not ), notice that i always answser yours, but you avoid to answser just some of my !!! , how you explain this ?

I can post propaganda about Muslims any day I post here. that wouldn't be too interesting.
your post carries no value. if you want to discuss the Israeli-Palestinian conflict start a thread about it.

 

[Godobeyer]

Are you sure race is the right word? Because I to my knowledge there is no such thing as a jewish race. Would culture not be a more precise word?

I told you every religion or people had a espific culture , the jews are race based on religion .
that why they called them selfs the choosen people . not the choosen culture

 

[Kerr]

Its amazing how basic historical information such as the fact that the Jews are a historical nation can become so controversial to the indoctrinated mind. its almost as saying that a person who is not fundamentally religious has no worth. there have been many secular Jews in modern history, all of them have been part of a culturally Jewish experience.

I find it more sad then amazing, tbh.

 

[Godobeyer]

You are not making sense.

no it's make big sense for me .
my point is jacob (the prophet ) never be a king ,is he who order/tell you to make kingdom , and call it , kingdom of Israel ?

I can post propaganda about Muslims any day I post here. that wouldn't be too interesting.
your post carries no value. if you want to discuss the Israeli-Palestinian conflict start a thread about it.

ok if i will make a thread about it .
and make our propaganda vs yours

 

[Kerr]

I told you every religion or people had a espific culture , the jews are race based on religion .
that why they called them selfs the choosen people . not the choosen culture

Before I answer your post I need something clarified. Is this what you mean by race?
Race (biology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Godobeyer]

Before I answer your post I need something clarified. Is this what you mean by race?
Race (biology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

no of course ,the race that the jews understand by they claim we are the chosen people by God .

 

[Kerr]

no of course ,the race that the jews understand by they claim we are the chosen people by God .

I am sorry, I do not understand what you mean by "race". Will try and answer your post anyway.

I dont think every religion has one culture, or that one culture has one religion. Its far more dynamic then that. There is no reason why the word jew cannot specify a cultural heritage without religion being a part of it.

 

[Levite]

this is another proof that the jews are race not religion. notice to this: that why you considerate your self the farvorite people (or chosen people), on contrary we the muslims considerate by God as the farvorite religion , and if we practic/apply our religion as well (obey God and did good deeds) then we become the farvorite people.

First of all, Judaism is a socioreligious ethnicity: it is a religion, a culture, and a national ethnicity, simultaneously, inextricably intertwined.

Second of all, that is not what chosenness means. It means that we have a unique relationship with God in that we alone share the covenant of Torah with God. It does not mean that we are God's favorites over everyone else. It doesn't even mean that other peoples may not have their own unique relationships or covenants with God: only that theirs will inevitably be different than ours.

Third, I have no clue what relevance Muslim beliefs have to Jewish theology or history or politics. How we Jews understand our own sacred texts, our own relationship with God, our own history, and our own social choices is a matter of Jewish philosophies. Muslim thought, or Christian thought, or, for that matter the thought of any other religion or culture, does not enter into it.

 

[Godobeyer]

I am sorry, I do not understand what you mean by "race". Will try and answer your post anyway.

I dont think every religion has one culture, or that one culture has one religion. Its far more dynamic then that. There is no reason why the word jew cannot specify a cultural heritage without religion being a part of it.

you won't understand my point until understand how they believe that they were/are choosen people by God

The Meaning of Jews as the Chosen People

that's why they accept the atheist as jewish .
but if he (the jewish) choose another religion they deny him .

 

[Kerr]

you won't understand my point until understand how they believe that they were/are choosen people by God

The Meaning of Jews as the Chosen People

that's why they accept the atheist as jewish .
but if he (the jewish) choose another religion they deny him .

Will read that link tomorrow, going to bed after this post (quite tired). But I would suggest we ask an actual jew who they "deny" or not.

 

[Godobeyer]

First of all, Judaism is a socioreligious ethnicity: it is a religion, a culture, and a national ethnicity, simultaneously, inextricably intertwined.

Second of all, that is not what chosenness means. It means that we have a unique relationship with God in that we alone share the covenant of Torah with God. It does not mean that we are God's favorites over everyone else. It doesn't even mean that other peoples may not have their own unique relationships or covenants with God: only that theirs will inevitably be different than ours.

Third, I have no clue what relevance Muslim beliefs have to Jewish theology or history or politics. How we Jews understand our own sacred texts, our own relationship with God, our own history, and our own social choices is a matter of Jewish philosophies. Muslim thought, or Christian thought, or, for that matter the thought of any other religion or culture, does not enter into it.

can you explain this verse from Talmud for me ?

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts."
Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b[/FONT]

 

[Godobeyer]

and

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Even though God created the non-Jew they are still animals in human form. It is not becoming for a Jew to be served by an animal. Therefore he will be served by animals in human form."
Midrasch Talpioth, p. 255, Warsaw 1855

[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"The souls of non-Jews come from impure sprits and are called pigs."
Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b[/FONT]

 

[godlikemadman]

Godobeyer, you're making Muslims look bad. Much like Caladan, I am an atheist. However I also identify with Islam because that was the religion I was born and raised with, and the one I have the most intrinsic knowledge of. What you are doing, Godobeyer, is not Islam. You cannot ridicule and nonsensically argue with the Ahl'l Kitaab like this. We are entitled to our own beliefs, and they to theirs. As a former Muslim, one of the most off-putting aspects of Islam today is that Muslims are the WORST examples of Islam to the rest of the world. We have lost our path. Islam the faith does not condone idiocy and ignorance, but rather embraces the pursuit of knowledge and coexistence with our brothers and sisters of the People of the Book. You are not making a good impression of Islam upon our Jewish counterparts. How can they respect Islam if Islam's most ardent supporters are ill-informed and generally distasteful? Though I identify myself as Muslim in action and thought and behavior, I can see the majority of Muslims have completely forgotten what Islam is. Islam is peace, love, and coexistence, not ignorance and hate. Please go take an introductory course in Judaism before coming back and arguing stupid semantics of ancient texts with our brothers and sisters of the Jews.

For hundreds of years Muslims and Jews lived together in harmony and in fact thrived together in the start of the Rabbinic Modern period of Judaism. While the early Christians were busy persecuting and exiling the Jews, the Muslims of the ancient world embraced and stood beside the Jews, and some of the greatest scientific innovations of both Islamic and Jewish history occurred in this Golden Age. The Jews under Muslim rule in Spain and Morocco welcomed the Muslims as saviors when they took these lands from the Christians, and also mourned when the Christians reconquered these lands. Muslims and Jews CAN live together in peace.

However, recent events post WWI and WWII have incited anger and violence between the two parties, mainly due to the creation of the infamous state of Israel. I have nothing against Israel, and I acknowledge it's right to exist as a nation. I believe the Jews have every right to a homeland. What I don't like are the two parties' resistance against a two-state system. The beef between Muslims and Jews is strictly political, not religious or ideological. I have nothing against Jews, in fact some of my best friends are Jewish. I have a deep respect of Jewish history and am currently taking classes to learn more. I feel that if more knowledge existed on both sides about the true course of history and how we USED to behave with each other, we can better understand the roots of our differences and strive for a better situation between Jews and Muslims.

 

[Godobeyer]

Godobeyer, you're making Muslims look bad. Much like Caladan, I am an atheist. However I also identify with Islam because that was the religion I was born and raised with, and the one I have the most intrinsic knowledge of. What you are doing, Godobeyer, is not Islam. You cannot ridicule and nonsensically argue with the Ahl'l Kitaab like this. We are entitled to our own beliefs, and they to theirs. As a former Muslim, one of the most off-putting aspects of Islam today is that Muslims are the WORST examples of Islam to the rest of the world. We have lost our path. Islam the faith does not condone idiocy and ignorance, but rather embraces the pursuit of knowledge and coexistence with our brothers and sisters of the People of the Book. You are not making a good impression of Islam upon our Jewish counterparts. How can they respect Islam if Islam's most ardent supporters are ill-informed and generally distasteful? Though I identify myself as Muslim in action and thought and behavior, I can see the majority of Muslims have completely forgotten what Islam is. Islam is peace, love, and coexistence, not ignorance and hate. Please go take an introductory course in Judaism before coming back and arguing stupid semantics of ancient texts with our brothers and sisters of the Jews.

For hundreds of years Muslims and Jews lived together in harmony and in fact thrived together in the start of the Rabbinic Modern period of Judaism. While the early Christians were busy persecuting and exiling the Jews, the Muslims of the ancient world embraced and stood beside the Jews, and some of the greatest scientific innovations of both Islamic and Jewish history occurred in this Golden Age. The Jews under Muslim rule in Spain and Morocco welcomed the Muslims as saviors when they took these lands from the Christians, and also mourned when the Christians reconquered these lands. Muslims and Jews CAN live together in peace.

However, recent events post WWI and WWII have incited anger and violence between the two parties, mainly due to the creation of the infamous state of Israel. I have nothing against Israel, and I acknowledge it's right to exist as a nation. I believe the Jews have every right to a homeland. What I don't like are the two parties' resistance against a two-state system. The beef between Muslims and Jews is strictly political, not religious or ideological. I have nothing against Jews, in fact some of my best friends are Jewish. I have a deep respect of Jewish history and am currently taking classes to learn more. I feel that if more knowledge existed on both sides about the true course of history and how we USED to behave with each other, we can better understand the roots of our differences and strive for a better situation between Jews and Muslims.

of course Islam as you said , i am just debate here , i am not came to make salutation and go , hi how you doing , you religion is good ,my relgion is fine ok bye .
maybe i want to change the habit to be more agrue with all respect .
accuatly this thread take two ways ,politics and religions .
everyone had the right to represent his point of view , the rules of the forum are what we cares.

me too i had some jews friends even we are disgree in religion or politics , and i have no problem .

you start your reply by insult(idiot)
you don't respect the others , how you ask the people to respect each other ?